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2013 300rr crank seal?

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So I’m noticing something not so good on last couple rides. The bike seems to be loading up really bad easily and blows a lot of blue smoke. I’ve not checked the tranny fluid level but I’m wondering is this a common issue with these? Is it likely the crank seal or could it be something else? Will this require splitting the cases to fix?

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You can do a seal without splitting the cases but I would not be surprised if the bearing is bad as well and the cause for the leak past the seal.  Is it noisy on the clutch side?  High hours?  Bike ever drowned out?  From my experience and others I've seen the lower end is bulletproof if kept clean clean and with enough oil in the mix.

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5 minutes ago, GP said:

You can do a seal without splitting the cases but I would not be surprised if the bearing is bad as well and the cause for the leak past the seal.  Is it noisy on the clutch side?  High hours?  Bike ever drowned out?  From my experience and others I've seen the lower end is bulletproof if kept clean clean and with enough oil in the mix.

Clutch is not noisy and I just bought this bike last November so I don't know how well it was really cared for, most people are liars when it comes to disclosing things when selling their old stuff. I also have no idea how many hours are on the bike as previous owner did not track it with an hour meter.

What else could cause the loss of tranny fluid and the blue smoke with heavy spooge even though my jetting should be spot on for the elevation and temps running 40:1?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Wrfrk said:

 

So I’m noticing something not so good on last couple rides. The bike seems to be loading up really bad easily and blows a lot of blue smoke. I’ve not checked the tranny fluid level but I’m wondering is this a common issue with these? Is it likely the crank seal or could it be something else? Will this require splitting the cases to fix?

 

At about 150hrs on my 15 Beta Xtrainer I had the very same problem.  I replaced the right crank seal with a seal from a ktm 300.  When I sold the bike with 435hrs it was still good.  The ktm seal was from the earlier ktm 300 engine, not the later model with balancer.

With this being said if there is any free play at the right crank bearing this will not fix the problem and it will require a case split for more parts, also if you are not loosing any tranny oil I doubt the seal would be the problem.

The reason I used a ktm seal instead of a beta seal is because a friend had already had the same problem with his beta 300 and fixed it with a ktm 300 seal.

One other thing I failed to mention is that my friend and I both also replaced the o-ring behind the collar that the inner part of the crank seal rides on.  The collar and o-ring are very similar to the collar and o-ring behind the countershaft sprocket.

Edited by oldman
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Welll, sure sounds like the seal.  Seal and gasket cheap enough, pull it apart and see if the crank has any radial play and if not try the seal.  A bad main will typically make a roaring sound.

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2 minutes ago, GP said:

Welll, sure sounds like the seal.  Seal and gasket cheap enough, pull it apart and see if the crank has any radial play and if not try the seal.  A bad main will typically make a roaring sound.

Good to know.. and yea mine is quiet and no strange vibration that I would also think you might notice with a bad bearing. I'm just going through lots of tranny oil and blowing the blue smoke and based on what I've read this is pretty clear what the issue is.

I see here that the KTM seal should also do the trick for this repair.. Does anyone have some good advice as to how I can safely pull the seal, what if any special tools will be needed?

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With everything off and the sleeve off the crank, there may be room to use a conventional hook type seal puller.  Just have to see but I've done another bike this way and do countershaft seals like this.  Just protect the case where you leverage the puller.  A slap hammer with a hook type attachment works as well.  Sometimes those seals with the steel casing are a tight press fit but never did a Beta so can't say here.  Warming the area will help.  Inspect the sleeve for wear, replace the oring (that seals oil from moving between the crank and sleeve) and be aware of the bearing right behind the seal.

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Just got off call with local dealer and he can get me the parts for $15 which IMO is super cheap. However, he said he did not think I could replace that without splitting the cases, though he admitted he's never had to try it either. He also mentioned that he did not believe oil could get in the crank by through those means as the crank pressure should keep it out?
Any thoughts, anyone?

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45 minutes ago, Wrfrk said:

Just got off call with local dealer and he can get me the parts for $15 which IMO is super cheap. However, he said he did not think I could replace that without splitting the cases, though he admitted he's never had to try it either. He also mentioned that he did not believe oil could get in the crank by through those means as the crank pressure should keep it out?
Any thoughts, anyone?

First, a gasket, quality viton crank seal, and oring should be more than $15.  Next, it can be removed, not saying its going to be a super easy job but its possible.  And last, he needs to go back to 2stroke school.  The crank case in a 2stroke alternates between positive pressure and vacuum.  I'd look for better advice.

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5 hours ago, Wrfrk said:

Well I don’t know that jetting would account for the blue colored smoke and the loss of tranny fluid?

I agree, but you said you haven't checked the tranny fluid.

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Well what I do know is that when I changed the fluid for the first time after getting the bike the tranny was very low but I just thought that was the previous owner being lazy and or stupid. Now I'm seeing these additional issues, planning on draining the fluid tonight after work and measuring what I've got. I suspect it's going to be very low....

Edited by Wrfrk
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Just wondering if anyone has other ideas as to what is going on here before I tear this all apart for no reason.. IMO the symptoms fit the bill/resolution but just wondering what else this could be? 

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7 hours ago, Wrfrk said:

Just got off call with local dealer and he can get me the parts for $15 which IMO is super cheap. However, he said he did not think I could replace that without splitting the cases, though he admitted he's never had to try it either. He also mentioned that he did not believe oil could get in the crank by through those means as the crank pressure should keep it out?
Any thoughts, anyone?

Your dealer is lost.

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1 hour ago, Wrfrk said:

Just wondering if anyone has other ideas as to what is going on here before I tear this all apart for no reason.. IMO the symptoms fit the bill/resolution but just wondering what else this could be? 

Really the only other thing it could be is the center case leaking between the gear box and crank case and i would highly doubt that's whats going on. (never seen it happen)

Like others have said its most likely going to be the pto side crank seal.

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Well I just dumped the oil and Sure enough only 400 mL left with only seven hours on the clock since the last oil change.IMG_0257.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Wrfrk said:

Well I just dumped the oil and Sure enough only 400 mL left with only seven hours on the clock since the last oil change.IMG_0257.jpg

Change the seal and :ride:

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Repair job done sadly though I think I may have done more damage than repair. In taking the old seal out I nicked the seal surface just a tiny bit with the puller though it is towards the top of the seal and more towards the inside of the surface than the outer edge. That metal is stupid soft as I was being very careful and it did not feel like I was past the seal until it popped out and I saw what I'd done.

SON OF A----- Maybe I'll be ok, won't know until I ride it I guess.........

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On 3/17/2018 at 7:51 PM, Wrfrk said:

Repair job done sadly though I think I may have done more damage than repair. In taking the old seal out I nicked the seal surface just a tiny bit with the puller though it is towards the top of the seal and more towards the inside of the surface than the outer edge. That metal is stupid soft as I was being very careful and it did not feel like I was past the seal until it popped out and I saw what I'd done.

SON OF A----- Maybe I'll be ok, won't know until I ride it I guess.........

Damn, that is too bad. I am surprised it's not easier to change the seal without splitting the cases. On my Yammy DT360 it was easy. (Except its a 74 haha!)

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