Disable Beta oil injection

[Jeffgnar]

Does anyone know, if you can disable the oil injection without buying the $109 kit online?

 

I have a big “bubble” in my injection line and I honestly don’t trust OI to begin with. Thanks for any answers or links.

 

2017 Xtrainer

[powdermuncher]

Oil Injection in general has been a huge improvement in 2 stroke reliability where ever it gets used. We had it on bikes 30 Years ago in Europe.

All my snowmobiles have it again reliability went up oil consumption went down -- the right amount of oil al the time instead a close to ok with premix.

Premix is particular bad in a trail bike like the X trainer where you are seldom a high power settings and all the oil actually just loads up the engine.

Suite yourself but oil injection delete is like picking up a spear because you don't trust a modern hunting rifle -- The spear never misfires ? 

If you have oil bubbles in the line most likely your bike spend some time upside down.  Usually not a problem.

[Jeffgnar]

Hmm I am really good at looping my bikes out so they get plenty of upside down time! I became worried about something last week, when the bike died on me and upon restart became much louder. A lot more “pingy” and quite a few decibels in sound started. Pipe and silencer checked out, so I’ve been looking around and noticed there’s about an inch gap from oil to carb in the injection line. Gonna disable it probably

[Jeffgnar]

Oh, and I’ve used about 1/4 of my full oil reservoir, through 6 tanks of fuel. I just don’t see how that’s right, I could mix at 90:1 and use more oil probably.

[shrubitup]

3 minutes ago, Jeffgnar said:

Oh, and I’ve used about 1/4 of my full oil reservoir, through 6 tanks of fuel. I just don’t see how that’s right, I could mix at 90:1 and use more oil probably.

Yes. Just pre mix your fuel. That should save the $109.

[Jeffgnar]

Yes. Just pre mix your fuel. That should save the $109.

And what, empty the oil tank, leave everything as is?

[shrubitup]

Just now, Jeffgnar said:

 

And what, empty the oil tank, leave everything as is?

 

Sure but I would cap the line connecting to intake line. 

[Jeffgnar]

Sure but I would cap the line connecting to intake line. 

Cool. Thanks.

[redrider144]

32 minutes ago, powdermuncher said:

We had it on bikes 30 Years ago in Europe.

You didn't have this crappy oil injection system 30 years ago.  It's the same crappy system that KTM put on the TPI bikes.  It gets air bubbles in the line very easily / the pump loses its prime, at which point the engine gets zero oil.  That's not increased reliability.  Premix wasn't causing engine failures, but oil injection faults sure as hell can, and have.  

Sorry, but there's nothing about this system that adds reliability.  It adds complexity as well as more parts that can fail that will destroy your engine.  Premix doesn't fail, it has no moving parts, needs no electricity, pump, etc.  The fuel is the oil delivery method.  Simple and bulletproof.

[NW_drZ]

Drain oil from oil tank. Remove oil feeding line. Plug the nipple feeding the intake manifold with a vacuum nipple cover from an auto parts store. Run a zip tie around it. Unplug the connection next to the oil tank reservoir just behind the right side plastic panel. Clip the purple / pink wire on the dash to get rid of the oil warning light. Unplug the TPS on the left side frame rail.

There is pictures of all of this on the Beta support site. The have a PDF showing the removal process.

[SmokinJoe90]

I have 4 bikes running oil injection they are two stroke street bikes. Never have had a pump fail and they are all from the early 90's. Nor do the many other forum members with these same two stroke street bikes with thousands of miles on them. 

Did you ever run your tank dry of injection oil? It's pretty simple to bleed the oil pump to remove an air bubble. 

I don't have problems with getting air bubbles in my lines on my bikes. Never run the tank dry always use proper oil injection oils. If you pull the lines your gonna get an air bubble. 

[Jeffgnar]

Nope tanks got plenty of oil, hasn’t used hardly any of it since topping it off 150 miles ago.

[mlatour]

Going by the specs, the XT's fuel tank capacity is 8.5 liters and oil tank capacity 0.650 liter.

At a 50:1 injection average, it would use up a tankful of oil for every 3.5 to 4 tankfulls of gasoline.

 

8.5 / 50 = 0.170

0.650 / 0.170 = 3.82

 

That of course is an average, going from my limited oil injected snowmobile experience,

while idling or riding at low engine speeds, the ratio could be as low as 80:1

 

I remember reading that some personal water crafts (jet ski type) even shut off the oil injection

while idling, counting on the residual oil in the crankcase to be sufficient as you are likely not going

to idle the engine at a standstill for more than 5 minutes anyway.

Edited April 20, 2018 by mlatour

[ohiodrz400sm]

That is the injection nipple that came loose after 19 hours on my XT. The OI system on these bike is at best a novelty and no where near as robust as sleds or other OI bikes.

[GP]

The best thing in the long run is to get the kit, with the manifold and a TPS delete for a lighter throttle pull.  I'll be doing a neighbor's XT this weekend.  Sell the OI hardware to someone who actually believes the BS that its better.  At the very least you should remove that nipple and plug the hole, as it can eventually remove itself.  The one on said neighbor's bike came out in my hand tugging on the tubing. 

[ktm300]

I just unplugged the pump and tps, and  left everything in place with a small amount of oil in the tank, that stuff is kind of a PIA to remove, and FYI if you try to pull that oil line of the barb that goes into the boot, you will pull the barb out with it.

I'm not against to OI, but wish it had a fail safe that at least would stop the motor from running or go into a "limp mode" (if you own a Sprinter you be familiar) so catastrophic failure isn't in your future.   

[weantright]

10 hours ago, powdermuncher said:

Oil Injection in general has been a huge improvement in 2 stroke reliability where ever it gets used. We had it on bikes 30 Years ago in Europe.

All my snowmobiles have it again reliability went up oil consumption went down -- the right amount of oil al the time instead a close to ok with premix.

Premix is particular bad in a trail bike like the X trainer where you are seldom a high power settings and all the oil actually just loads up the engine.

Suite yourself but oil injection delete is like picking up a spear because you don't trust a modern hunting rifle -- The spear never misfires ? 

If you have oil bubbles in the line most likely your bike spend some time upside down.  Usually not a problem.

Completely incorrect. There are several theories on why bubbles happen. Beta's OI unlike snowmobiles, there's no real check valve and the oil just leaks into the intake. By leaking it will create a bubble of air when the oil from the pump doesn't move. Is this bad??? May not be great but not totally bad since oil is there from the drip. The possible bad is the air bubble will eventually work it's self out, the bubble reaches the motor will it be WOT??? ,,,,,, this is my theory at least.

[GP]

The sled argument is bullshit.  Your sled is more like your car than your bike, protected environment under a hood.  Going out to clean up some trail this weekend after being poked and prodded by branches and brush last week, pulling broken sticks from the bike after bushwhacking around blow downs.  Yeah, I want the life blood of the motor in a crappy piece of tygon tubing that is unprotected and with no secondary retention.  What garbage.

[powdermuncher]

You have some interesting ideas about snowmobiling out west.

Anyway don't get angry do what you must .  From working as a Motorcycle mechanic I can tel you that the rate of engine wear and failures went down dramatically on bikes and scooters with oil injection 30 Years ago.   The same with snowmobiles etc thats my point -- How manny engine failures due to oil injection failures do you know of ( if the X trainer would have a number of engine failures that are based on oil starvation that would be different)  Anyway, how many fuel lines have ripped of while riding? Isn't that even more exposed than the oil line?  Lets keep it real.    Opinions are opinions and everyone has one or a few. What we should have in the forum is facts.

[wwguy]

35 minutes ago, powdermuncher said:

Opinions are opinions and everyone has one or a few. What we should have in the forum is facts.

Fair enough...  but I get the feeling that you won't believe me if I just retell other people's stories.  So I'll post a few links to previous discussions and you can sort through them for yourself.  Or not.

But before I do that I have a few simple questions for you:
1) Why do you think OI is more reliable and leads to better performance and longevity than premixing?  Please be technically specific.  Beta has been clear that their reasons for introducing OI are convenience and lower emissions.  They've never made a claim that OI increases performance, reliability, or engine longevity.  Two-stroke dyno results for years have shown that more oil in the engine (up to about 18:1 max) leads to better ring seal which leads to higher compression which leads to greater power and torque.
2) How do you know how much oil your Beta OI should be pumping at any point in time?
3) How do you verify that your OI system is pumping what it should be pumping at any point in time?
4) Most importantly, how do you detect OI system degradation or failure before engine damage?

Beta offers no accurate, reliable, and repeatable procedures for the above... even at the dealerships.

Some real reasons real Beta riders have reported real OI system failures:

• Electrical system issues due to crappy molex connectors, broken 4700uF capacitor leads, and corroded diode packs. (Beta has since sent replacement diodes and capacitors ala "recall" to all dealers for all pre-2018 oil injected bikes.)
• Wrong ECU installed at the factory on some OI bikes. (Beta released a memo to dealers about this.)
• ECU failure on some bikes. (Beta was kind enough to replace these on warranty.)
• Metal injection port coming loose from intake manifold. (Just saw one of these reported over in the Xtrainer FB group this week.)
• Oil pump bracket and or fitting breaking in the airbox due to vibration and over-enthusiastic air filter removal and replacement.
• Oil line coming loose from oil pump or intake manifold fitting.
• Oil tank vent line kinked or crimped during factory installation, not permitting oil to flow due to vacuum created.

None of the reasons above have anything to due with oil injection in general, but rather reflect on Beta's chosen technology method of implementation on their bikes.

No need to take my word for it though.  Here are few threads you can sift through on your own:
http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1926

http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1922

http://www.betarider.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2068

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1271116402979303/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1254822177942059/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1135244306566514/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1072414549516157/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1049161495174796/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/644287075705766/permalink/818720184929120/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/644287075705766/permalink/810771012390704/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1291346444289632/

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1224956-heads-up-some-my17-us-250300rrs-shipped-with-eu-ecu-oi-will-not-work/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/644287075705766/permalink/1002077329926737/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1303628186394791/

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1227973-2017-300rr-overcharging/#comment-13717763

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1227973-2017-300rr-overcharging/#comment-13718407

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/1467149570042651/

There are plenty more but I eventually got tired of collecting them. 

And then there was this guy over in the BetaRider forum, who for obvious reasons is no longer riding a Beta:

Edited April 20, 2018 by wwguy