Jump to content

All new Honda CRF? Plated CRF450 coming soon???? New 2T? Soon We'll know!

Recommended Posts




What kind of dirt bike or dual sport is that?  Or are you talking about a multi-cylinder road bike which would be completely irrelevant to this conversation?



20,000 miles / 800 hours before needing a top end is WAY better better than the race bikes and euro enduro bikes. .  



Doc
It was a street bike, but my current dualsport has its first valve check at 16,000 miles. All im saying is its high maintence for a plated bike. No reason to get mad over what Im saying. The 450l isnt a race bike. Yes its way better but its still a lot for a plated bike. Never said it was unreasonable but changing oil every 4-500 miles can be tedious for a plated bike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
int
No it cant.  There is so much more that goes into it.
:banghead:
Of course theres more that goes into it. Not sure what your trying to argue me about. Wear/stress is directly related to rpm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, drider14 said:
16 minutes ago, Doc_d said:



What kind of dirt bike or dual sport is that?  Or are you talking about a multi-cylinder road bike which would be completely irrelevant to this conversation?



20,000 miles / 800 hours before needing a top end is WAY better better than the race bikes and euro enduro bikes. .  



Doc

It was a street bike, but my current dualsport has its first valve check at 16,000 miles. All im saying is its high maintence for a plated bike. No reason to get mad over what Im saying. The 450l isnt a race bike. Yes its way better but its still a lot for a plated bike. Never said it was unreasonable but changing oil every 4-500 miles can be tedious for a plated bike.

I'm not mad and apologize if I came off that way.  We're just discussing it civilly. 

They haven't said what the oil change schedule will be, but with that small capacity I think you are right it will be much more often that something like the DRZ's 3,500 mile interval.  That would be a bit of a pain if it's under 1,000 miles.  But I think I could live with a 20,000 mile / 800 hour too end interval.  Valve check interval is still unknown.  It would really suck if it was like the race bikes, every 30 hours.  If it was at least 5,000 miles or so I could probably deal with that on a daily rider.

Doc

Edited by Doc_d

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, drider14 said:
5 minutes ago, dirtjumpordie said:
int
No it cant.  There is so much more that goes into it.
:banghead:

Of course theres more that goes into it. Not sure what your trying to argue me about. Wear/stress is directly related to rpm.

Its not just RPM though.  Thats only part of it.  How much load the engine is under is another enormous part of it.  6000rpm in neutral is a lot different than 6000rpm with the throttle wide open pointing up a mountainside.  

Here is a short list of a few things that impact a given engine's lifespan:

  • Peak cylinder pressure (creates more force on the piston top, valve surfaces, connecting rod, and then crankshaft)
  • Combustion chamber temperature (valve seats will live forever if they stay below 1400 degrees.  They fail very quickly at 1700 degrees)
  • Exhaust gas temprature
  • Valve spring stiffness (impacts how much load gets put on the valve seats, cam lobes, rocker/rollers, buckets, etc)
  • Connecting rod length (changes the amount of side-load applied to a piston, which greatly impacts piston/bore wear. Also changes the rate of piston acceleration/deceleration with respect to different crank angles)
  • So so so much more goes into it.  The science behind the durability of any single given engine component is so involved.  I wish I could just dump years of knowledge into your head right now! There is so much to this subject that you haven't even realized yet that you don't even know how deep this rabbit hole goes.
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, dirtjumpordie said:
Its not just RPM though.  Thats only part of it.  How much load the engine is under is another enormous part of it.  6000rpm in neutral is a lot different than 6000rpm with the throttle wide open pointing up a mountainside.  
Here is a short list of a few things that impact a given engine's lifespan:
  • Peak cylinder pressure (creates more force on the piston top, valve surfaces, connecting rod, and then crankshaft)
  • Combustion chamber temperature (valve seats will live forever if they stay below 1400 degrees.  They fail very quickly at 1700 degrees)
  • Exhaust gas temprature
  • Valve spring stiffness (impacts how much load gets put on the valve seats, cam lobes, rocker/rollers, buckets, etc)
  • Connecting rod length (changes the amount of side-load applied to a piston, which greatly impacts piston/bore wear. Also changes the rate of piston acceleration/deceleration with respect to different crank angles)
  • So so so much more goes into it.  The science behind the durability of any single given engine component is so involved.  I wish I could just dump years of knowledge into your head right now! There is so much to this subject that you haven't even realized yet that you don't even know how deep this rabbit hole goes.

I understand. Used to be an autotech and engine builder with certs to operate a dyno. I understand the principles, we didnt run the engines we built until they blew to see their max stress levels as it wasn't cost effective for what we did. And yes on drag cars, generally we retarded the timing to help reduce some of the stresses while in the burnout box.

Edited by drider14
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not mad and apologize if I came off that way.  We're just discussing it civilly. 
They haven't said what the oil change schedule will be, but with that small capacity I think you are right it will be much more often that something like the DRZ's 3,500 mile interval.  That would be a bit of a pain if it's under 1,000 miles.  But I think I could live with a 20,000 mile / 800 hour too end interval.  Valve check interval is still unknown.  It would really suck if it was like the race bikes, every 30 hours.  If it was at least 5,000 miles or so I could probably deal with that on a daily rider.
Doc
My opologizes for mis-misinterpreting. This bike is sweet though, main reason I havent bought a plated husky\ktm yet is their crazy maintence schedules. 450L seems to be much better than those bikes while fitting the same category.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Granted I haven't ridden this bike (450) I have to wonder how they justify the msrp. For that much money I'm buying a pumpkin or husky. It cracked me up when they said "no one has built an enduro bike this before", uhh yes they did many years ago. I'll research more but does it really have a close ratio 5 speed and a cable clutch? Honda could do better than that.

Edit: didn’t realize there are multiple 450’s with wr 6 speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zackly...And still needs to be tinkered with.

Tinkering is half the fun for me, I don’t care how good the bike is. Idle hands are the devils workshop
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How in the hell can you say this? Because it too is street legal? What about the flexy frame and flexy junk forks that bottom on day one?

What about the rear hubs the crack in one day of hard whoops?

What about the brakes that overheat on long downhills cause they are excessively strong with no where for the heat to go?

The KTM is light, and handles good. Otherwise, it is WAAAYA underengineered for actual use. It's a trailer queen.

You really don’t like Ktm do you? The frame flex is desired, the forks are something that most people have set up for them regardless of the make or model. Can’t say I have ever heard of the other problems. I do a few enduros and dual sports every year and it’s usually a sea of orange, not many break downs that I have observed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like we need some more confirmed information on the L.

My current riding style is ~100 miles of slab and ~200 miles of off road to get back home in a long day. Or vice versa. I'm looking to add some multi-day trips which could eliminate some of the slab. Or add more.

I plated a DRZ kickstart only dirt version and a WR450. Neither would handle the slab portion very well.

I currently ride a 690R and would be unlikely to switch based on the info so far. The weight reduction would be nice, but the only advantage I see for me. Doesn't even cost that much less, and maintenance might be more.

I think it might be better than the DRZ or WR though FOR DUALSPORTING.

:excuseme:

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seems like we need some more confirmed information on the L.
My current riding style is ~100 miles of slab and ~200 miles of off road to get back home in a long day. Or vice versa. I'm looking to add some multi-day trips which could eliminate some of the slab. Or add more.
I plated a DRZ kickstart only dirt version and a WR450. Neither would handle the slab portion very well.
I currently ride a 690R and would be unlikely to switch based on the info so far. The weight reduction would be nice, but the only advantage I see for me. Doesn't even cost that much less, and maintenance might be more.
I think it might be better than the DRZ or WR though FOR DUALSPORTING.
:excuseme:
 


This is from honda australia...might give you some in sight

https://motorcycles.honda.com.au/Trail/CRF450L#product-details-list
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom line is if weights a bit more,  maybe (probably not) is slightly down on power from the orange bikes, and is efficiently produced to where supply meets or exceeds demand, and I can walk out of a dealer lfor $1,500 - 2,500 less than an orange bike....I’m in! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, notime said:

Bottom line is if weights a bit more,  maybe (probably not) is slightly down on power from the orange bikes, and is efficiently produced to where supply meets or exceeds demand, and I can walk out of a dealer lfor $1,500 - 2,500 less than an orange bike....I’m in! 

 

They claim curb weight of 131kilos. That’s 288lbs. Like all Honda’s she’s a porker. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll say again, the bike is LAM approved. That means it is learner bike approved. 1 very important rule is the power to weight ratio. 150 killowatts per tonne or less. That equates to a maximum permissible power output of 26.3 horsepower for a 289 lb bike. I hope the USA bike isn't as restricted.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

I'll say again, the bike is LAM approved. That means it is learner bike approved. 1 very important rule is the power to weight ratio. 150 killowatts per tonne or less. That equates to a maximum permissible power output of 26.3 horsepower for a 289 lb bike. I hope the USA bike isn't as restricted.

 

 

I'm hoping that's some misinformation.  At 26 HP it would have less than a WR250R and just a couple more than their current CRF250L.  My guesstimate on power is 40 horsepower stock.  Desmogged, Tuned / Vortex ECU, aftermarket pipe I'm guessing 48 horsepower.

Even though the power numbers probably won't set the world on fire, I'm betting it's smooth and has a wide useable range.  My buddy has a CRF250L and I swap him with my DRZ sometimes when we are out riding.  The CRF250L is gutless in comparison.  But it's so smooth and has a much wider RPM range where the motor feels happy and willing.  The idea of having a 450cc motor with those qualities in a dual sport bike is definitely interesting.

Doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



I'm hoping that's some misinformation.  At 26 HP it would have less than a WR250R and just a couple more than their current CRF250L.  My guesstimate on power is 40 horsepower stock.  Desmogged, Tuned / Vortex ECU, aftermarket pipe I'm guessing 48 horsepower.



Even though the power numbers probably won't set the world on fire, I'm betting it's smooth and has a wide useable range.  My buddy has a CRF250L and I swap him with my DRZ sometimes when we are out riding.  The CRF250L is gutless in comparison.  But it's so smooth and has a much wider RPM range where the motor feels happy and willing.  The idea of having a 450cc motor with those qualities in a dual sport bike is definitely interesting.



Doc
I think they even restrict the DRZ400S in Europe but it's right there on the Australian page. The bike is LAMS approved. The rules are very clear cut and easily found online. The boys down under will get a 26 (or less) horsepower version on the bike.
It's noteworthy because it's the same version that they are claiming the 32,000 km life expectancy on.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dirtjumpordie said:

If there is one single race-capable dualsport on the market that is more durable than the CRF450L, please share a link with all of us.  I will by two of them. 

 

Wanna buy my xrl? I'm trying to save up for a 450.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nevermind I did a bit more research. They also allow for 90 kg of rider and supplies. This changes the power considerably.

The maximum amount is 44 hp.

More in line with what we expected. My bad...I want one!

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:


×