Hitch mounted carrier - weight limits

[maicoguy]

I like those stabilizing bars on either side of the hitch mount.  Can you tell us more about those? 

[Adv Biker]

6 hours ago, LSHD said:

The hitch manufacturer tests their hitches for the actual vehicles they build for. So tongue weight will be as rated. As alucard0822 posted, the big thing will be to not exceed rear axle weight rating by filling the vehicle with passengers or gear. My bet is that with nobody in the back seats and a 300 pound bike/carrier combo, the Element will do fine. Put all your gear in the front or just behind front seats to improve handling. The Element forums seem to back this up.

That’s good to know thanks!

[DaveCR]

6 hours ago, maicoguy said:

I like those stabilizing bars on either side of the hitch mount.  Can you tell us more about those? 

I wasn't satisfied with the stability using an anti-wobble plate, so I welded a couple of additional 'receivers' to my hitch and added some tubing to the hauler. It works well.

[mbrick]

On 5/23/2018 at 3:11 PM, Tahoe Gator said:

“Cantilever“ transfers to tongue weight. It’s just the mechanism for creating the force. At the end of the day it’s a downward force on the tongue

 

Though of course a 200 pound weight 18 inches past the tongue is going to translate to more than 200 pounds at the tounge.

Think about how the force is applied.  The cantilever hitch hauler is 'twisting' the receiver downward with a torque.  A tongue load on a trailer is pressing down, but not causing (near zero) a rotational torque since the trailer tires hold up the back of the trailer.

I bet the tongue weight at which they each fail would be different, but I don't know by how much.

This chart from LHSD's link Lseems to help illustrate the effect of torque due to the extender even though its still with a trailer.
For a Class III they seem to be taking off 50lbs for every 4" of extension.  Although here it is approaches an asymptote due to the trailer having wheels, for a hitch hauler it will keep declining.

Edited May 25, 2018 by mbrick

[LSHD]

Nope. The tongue load creates a torque equal to tongue load x distance from rear bolts on receiver (moment arm), whether applied by a trailer on a ball or the hitch carrier. Only difference is moment arm (point at which TW is applied, which will be longer with the hauler.

[BlackBuzzard]

13 hours ago, LSHD said:

Nope. The tongue load creates a torque equal to tongue load x distance from rear bolts on receiver (moment arm), whether applied by a trailer on a ball or the hitch carrier. Only difference is moment arm (point at which TW is applied, which will be longer with the hauler.

 

this is correct.

 

I calculated applied torque from rear axle to trailer ball (distance), with max allowed trailer tongue weight for that vehicle.    Then compare that value to hitch hauler numbers, which will have longer lever arm distance but less weight.

Oddly enough, a heavy dirt bike on a steel 70pound hauler is not far from the max trailer values in terms of torque-at-rear-axle for 1/2 ton truck.

 

IMO a two dirtbike hauler would be too much weight at the supported distance for a 1/2 ton truck.

 

 

[LSHD]

17 hours ago, mbrick said:

Think about how the force is applied.  The cantilever hitch hauler is 'twisting' the receiver downward with a torque.  A tongue load on a trailer is pressing down, but not causing (near zero) a rotational torque since the trailer tires hold up the back of the trailer.

I bet the tongue weight at which they each fail would be different, but I don't know by how much.

This chart from LHSD's link Lseems to help illustrate the effect of torque due to the extender even though its still with a trailer.
For a Class III they seem to be taking off 50lbs for every 4" of extension.  Although here it is approaches an asymptote due to the trailer having wheels, for a hitch hauler it will keep declining.

 

Keep in mind the rules for hitch extension versus hitch carriers are different, since you don't actually have thousands of pounds pulling and pushing on the receiver with a hitch carrier. Rule of thumb for hitch carrier is lower rated load of carrier or tongue weight, and that's it for the receiver. How the vehicle will ride depends on cargo, suspension, etc.

[Piney Woods]

On 5/24/2018 at 6:50 PM, DaveCR said:

I wasn't satisfied with the stability using an anti-wobble plate, so I welded a couple of additional 'receivers' to my hitch and added some tubing to the hauler. It works well.

Yep, but only with vehicles with metal bumpers. My two suv's don't.

[DaveCR]

2 hours ago, Piney Woods said:

Yep, but only with vehicles with metal bumpers. My two suv's don't.

Under the plastic bumper cover is a steel receiver hitch. If you can fab and weld, then additional mounts can be added.

[Wally_Tunison_in_N.J.]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:54 PM, LSHD said:

Would not hesitate to load to the limit on a commercially manufactured hitch (not a homemade job). Should come with some sort of stabilizing clamps. If not, not too expensive to add. I tie the loose end of my front straps to the forks and the truck, plus both straps go from forks (Canyon Dancer tie down rings) to my chain hooks on the truck receiver, which is rated at 600 pounds for none weight-distributing hitch. Canyon Dancer's attach to the fork clamp bolts.

Love my little hitch carrier. Ultra-Tow aluminum. Around 50 pounds and $170 at Northern Tool. 400 pound limit, which is fine for any dirt bike I care to ride. ?

 

We had a problem with the Canyon Dancer tie down rings awhile back. One broke and dropped my buddies Husky on the Garden State Parkway. Check them before every use.

[LSHD]

22 minutes ago, Wally_Tunison_in_N.J. said:

We had a problem with the Canyon Dancer tie down rings awhile back. One broke and dropped my buddies Husky on the Garden State Parkway. Check them before every use.

What was the point of failure? How tight were the straps? Any fork saver or 2x4 to prevent fork compression? All three pairs I have are beastly strong, thick steel.

But I always use the extra strap material to manually fix the bike to my hitch receiver. Straps could completely fail and bike would not move.

Edited May 27, 2018 by LSHD

[Wally_Tunison_in_N.J.]

5 minutes ago, LSHD said:

What was the point of failure? How tight were the straps? Any fork saver or 2x4 to prevent fork compression? All three pairs I have are beastly strong, thick steel.

But I always use the extra strap material to manually fix the bike to my hitch receiver. Straps could completely fail and bike would not move.

Point of failure was the bend. I suspect that they were early production rings.

No fork compression device. Here is why;

Under compression,we feel that the forks should have a small amount of movement so as to allow some slight movement of the bike which in turn allows for some dispersal of any sway energy. Kinda like scrubbing a jump. 

Good idea to add the extra strap. Smart.

[Tahoe Gator]

We had a problem with the Canyon Dancer tie down rings awhile back. One broke and dropped my buddies Husky on the Garden State Parkway. Check them before every use.

I don’t trust straps alone. That’s why I run a pipe from the roof rack to the handlebar...

[LSHD]

18 minutes ago, Wally_Tunison_in_N.J. said:

Point of failure was the bend. I suspect that they were early production rings.

No fork compression device. Here is why;

Under compression,we feel that the forks should have a small amount of movement so as to allow some slight movement of the bike which in turn allows for some dispersal of any sway energy. Kinda like scrubbing a jump. 

Good idea to add the extra strap. Smart.

 

Yes, I was asking about the anti-compression device because I am not a fan, and it could put more stress on the straps and CD rings.

Paranoia led me to adding the extra straps. I use two backups. First is a small strap with carabiners attached to the inside footpeg. I added that to keep the bike from falling over before I get the main straps on. Next is a strap from the top of the forks to the receiver, completely independent of the Canyon Dancer rings.

Photo shows my "safety strap" going over the seat. The current version actually just goes to the footpeg closest to the truck down to the receiver.

I also use the strap tails to secure the tires to the carrier.

Edited May 27, 2018 by LSHD

[Tahoe Gator]

 
Yes, I was asking about the anti-compression device because I am not a fan, and it could put more stress on the straps and CD rings.
Paranoia led me to adding the extra straps. I use two backups. First is a small strap with carabiners attached to the inside footpeg. I added that to keep the bike from falling over before I get the main straps on. Next is a strap from the top of the forks to the receiver, completely independent of the Canyon Dancer rings.
Photo shows my "safety strap" going over the seat. The current version actually just goes to the footpeg closest to the truck down to the receiver.

I also use the strap tails to secure the tires to the carrier.

That strap setup looks sketchy to me. I think you would be much better off with one pair of straps going to the handlebars and another pair to the foot pegs. And for those nearest the car, use the trailer chain hook holders instead of the receptor on the hitch rack.

[LSHD]

3 minutes ago, Tahoe Gator said:

 

That strap setup looks sketchy to me. I think you would be much better off with one pair of straps going to the handlebars and another pair to the foot pegs. And for those nearest the car, use the trailer chain hook holders instead of the receptor on the hitch rack.

 

What failure point makes you believe that? I use one pair of straps on the forks, and an extra strap (tail end of inside fork strap) on the right fork going to my hook hole on the receiver. That forms two independent systems holding the bike to truck. These straps have a working load of 3,333 lbs and breaking strength of 10,000 lbs. Then I have an extra strap going from the inside peg to the receiver. Both wheels are secured to the hitch carrier. With this setup both fork straps could literally be cut or the carrier receiver arm could be cut in half and the bike would not fall off.

[Tahoe Gator]

What failure point makes you believe that? I use one pair of straps on the forks, and an extra strap (tail end of inside fork strap) on the right fork going to my hook hole on the receiver. That forms two independent systems holding the bike to truck. These straps have a working load of 3,333 lbs and breaking strength of 10,000 lbs. Then I have an extra strap going from the inside peg to the receiver. Both wheels are secured to the hitch carrier. With this setup both fork straps could literally be cut or the carrier receiver arm could be cut in half and the bike would not fall off.

I stand corrected then! Thought I saw a strap over the seat (bike would just rotate freely).

[LSHD]

2 minutes ago, Tahoe Gator said:

I stand corrected then! Thought I saw a strap over the seat (bike would just rotate freely).

 

Yes, you did! I tried to explain how it no longer is that way, but a picture speaks louder than words. :-)

And actually, since the strap connected to the door handle on the old truck the bike didn't rotate. On the new one there was no place up high to connect I went to the inside peg, which works great. I do still get a little paranoid still and may one day run a strap centered from the luggage racks on the roof to the bike frame. That way you could cut the carrier receiver and the bike still wouldn't hit the pavement. ?

 

 

[Tahoe Gator]

Yes, you did! I tried to explain how it no longer is that way, but a picture speaks louder than words. :-)
And actually, since the strap connected to the door handle on the old truck the bike didn't rotate. On the new one there was no place up high to connect I went to the inside peg, which works great. I do still get a little paranoid still and may one day run a strap centered from the luggage racks on the roof to the bike frame. That way you could cut the carrier receiver and the bike still wouldn't hit the pavement. ?

True. But if you use a pole, it also won’t go through your back window.

[LSHD]

Yeah, I like that pole idea. Who thought of that? ?