Pissed at Honda

[Caleb Breaux]

So I've got 2015 crf250x. I did many of the ccc mods and now it runs like a champ. Starts on first kick/push and I love the suspension and feel.

What I hate about the bike is how hard it is to work on. Specifically the carb. For anyone who doesn't own a 250x/450x the carb sits right behind a large portion of subframe and is nearly impossible to access. I have a after market fuel screw and I still can barely get to it with my hands. If you actually wan't to clean the carb you have to lift the whole sub frame to get it out. Now my throttle cable is seized up (probably from sand) and I am going to have to replace. I'm not mad that the cable seized, it happens, things go wrong grit gets in places its not supposed to be and parts wear out. However where my throttle cables attach to my carb is completely inaccessible. So I am going to have to lift the sub frame again! This is not that big a deal but the last time I tried to get the airbox boot back on the carb it took 5 hours and a shit ton of grease. Carb work is something that is common on all dirtbikes. Even just for maintenance. It should not be that difficult to access it. It seems like honda doesn't want owners to work on their bikes anymore. Don't even get me started on trying to find a current service manual (because the bikes don't come with them anymore).

I looked at several buddies bikes because I was curious as to how they are layed out, and for the ktm, yamaha, and suzuki the throttle cable fix wouldn't take more than 30 minutes. But its going to be an all day process for me. I'm so pissed right now I'm thinking about selling my bike and switching makers because I feel like this is going to become a recurring problem.

 

What do you guys think?

Any honda guys out there gonna convince me otherwise?

[Dmouse]

Be prepared to hear from guys that can get that carb out and back in again in 30minutes

[MTHusky250]

Good luck. Sounds like a pain in the #as. Some manufactures (their engineers) don't always think about repairability.

Edited June 12, 2018 by MTHusky250

[Shhhh]

5 hours to lift a subframe and grease to get an air boot on, and you're blaming the bike?

 

 

[Edgecombe]

That's why honda stopped making the xr line. So they can get some of that maintenance money. Stupid honda. I probably won't buy another one. 

[Red NT]

?????

 

You can do cables easy with carb in place. Just seat and tank off. There is plenty of room to access the cables.

 

If you need to remove carby:

 

Seat and tank off

Unplug TPS and undo throttle cables and fuel line.

Loosen top subframe bolts and remove the two lower ones, loosen air boot clamp and swing the subframe up. Shock out.

Now loosen the front clamp on the carby. Makes it easier to undo the hot start nut. Carby off.

 

30 minutes with hand tools max.

 

Pissed me off the first time but now routine maintenance.

 

You can get the float bowl off without removing carby just loosen clamps and rotate in place. Main and pilot jets can be accessed thtough float bowl drain plug with float bowl on.

The FCR is a bloody good carby when set up right, I just pull mine off for a clean and new vacuum plate release seal at the end of each wet season when I am doing my swingarm and linkage bearings anyway.

 

R and D fuel screw sorts out the mixture adjustment.

 

 

 

[Red NT]

BTW, my 09 still on original cables.....

[Red NT]

......and I also swing the subframe up on my 98 KTM 200 to pull the carb. Just easier with subframe out of the way......

[William1]

You need to stop blaming the manufacturer for your lack of wrenching skills. Carb swap on the worst of the bikes is about 30 minutes. Seat, tank, shrouds, shock, exhaust carb.

Jets done on the bike, no more than ten minutes to do a main, pilot or needle.

Throttle cables are a 15 minute job.

With experience, wrenching (like riding) gets faster. My record for rebuilding a air cooled 1970's 2S is 45 minutes, a late model water cooled 4S with a external oil tank is 6 hours (including redoing the head and degreeing cams). Basic modern day engine swap is easily under an hour.

[piltoyougram]

Ho, Ho, Ho, and away we go! The bottom line on bikes is no different then cars or trucks! Have you noticed in the last 30 years how ALL manufactures have made their bikes, cars and trucks a little more complicated each year so the average Joe just throws up his hands and takes it to the dealer for  work that needs done! That's their money maker! "Service work" and it's not going to change! Get use to it and do it your self or pay the price. I once owned a Honda CRF 250X and yes I'm glad I kept my 1985 XR350R It's a dream to work on compared to the X! So I sold the X !!!

[trailmeisterjoe]

1 hour ago, William1 said:

You need to stop blaming the manufacturer for your lack of wrenching skills. Carb swap on the worst of the bikes is about 30 minutes. Seat, tank, shrouds, shock, exhaust carb.

Jets done on the bike, no more than ten minutes to do a main, pilot or needle.

Throttle cables are a 15 minute job.

With experience, wrenching (like riding) gets faster. My record for rebuilding a air cooled 1970's 2S is 45 minutes, a late model water cooled 4S with a external oil tank is 6 hours (including redoing the head and degreeing cams). Basic modern day engine swap is easily under an hour.

Probably not reasonable times on Honda's silly aluminum frame bikes. Look at one and you will see that the carb is buried in the thing and is a pain to get to. But hey.....it's a cool frame though ( LOL )

 

Joe

[William1]

18 minutes ago, trailmeisterjoe said:

Probably not reasonable times on Honda's silly aluminum frame bikes. Look at one and you will see that the carb is buried in the thing and is a pain to get to. But hey.....it's a cool frame though ( LOL )

 

Joe

Buried in the Yamaha's too. But still not hard to do if you read the manual, understand the procedure and follow it. Way too many just dive right in, try to wrestle something apart, wasting time. Had they read the book first, they'd know you need to do1-2-3-4-5... Then after they have done it a few times, they might discover shortcuts.

I have to do a old Yamaha today (pull the engine, rebuild and assemble). One I have done 1,000 times. But it has been a few years. So I am going to take 10 minutes and read the manual to refresh me on key aspects.

[Caleb Breaux]

7 hours ago, Red NT said:

?????

 

You can do cables easy with carb in place. Just seat and tank off. There is plenty of room to access the cables.

 

If you need to remove carby:

 

Seat and tank off

Unplug TPS and undo throttle cables and fuel line.

Loosen top subframe bolts and remove the two lower ones, loosen air boot clamp and swing the subframe up. Shock out.

Now loosen the front clamp on the carby. Makes it easier to undo the hot start nut. Carby off.

 

30 minutes with hand tools max.

 

Pissed me off the first time but now routine maintenance.

 

You can get the float bowl off without removing carby just loosen clamps and rotate in place. Main and pilot jets can be accessed thtough float bowl drain plug with float bowl on.

The FCR is a bloody good carby when set up right, I just pull mine off for a clean and new vacuum plate release seal at the end of each wet season when I am doing my swingarm and linkage bearings anyway.

 

R and D fuel screw sorts out the mixture adjustment.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, poldies4 said:

5 hours to lift a subframe and grease to get an air boot on, and you're blaming the bike?

 

 

No sorry you just can't not on my bike. The cables come in on the side and you can't even see them much less get a wrench In there to remove. 

And yeah it probably only took me less than 30 minutes to take the carb out last time. Putting it back together was the problem. Between the throttle cables, hotstart and tubes you have all but minimal room to access. I've researched a thousand things to make life easier getting the airboot on but to no avail. The airboot sits behind the frame so you can't guid it into the carb and you can't even touch it once the subframe is down.

I've done rejets and carb swaps on a wr250f, 2 different ktms, and an older crf230f. Yes I'm not an experienced mechanic but all the work on those carbs in and out took under an hour. 

If any of you are saying you can swap a carb in 30 minutes on a honda. You obviously dont have this bike. If you do props to ya. But the average person its gonna take a while maybe not 5 hours but definitely longer than 30 min.

[Red NT]

No sorry you just can't not on my bike. The cables come in on the side and you can't even see them much less get a wrench In there to remove. 



And yeah it probably only took me less than 30 minutes to take the carb out last time. Putting it back together was the problem. Between the throttle cables, hotstart and tubes you have all but minimal room to access. I've researched a thousand things to make life easier getting the airboot on but to no avail. The airboot sits behind the frame so you can't guid it into the carb and you can't even touch it once the subframe is down.



I've done rejets and carb swaps on a wr250f, 2 different ktms, and an older crf230f. Yes I'm not an experienced mechanic but all the work on those carbs in and out took under an hour. 



If any of you are saying you can swap a carb in 30 minutes on a honda. You obviously dont have this bike. If you do props to ya. But the average person its gonna take a while maybe not 5 hours but definitely longer than 30 min.

Mine is a 450x. So less room than the 250. But is no real drama. Like William said you need to be methodical and follow the manual. First time I just ripped into it and annoyed myself but now is easy.

As far as putting the air boot back on - just leave front carby clamp loose to allow some up/down movement and loosen the rear clamp right off before you start. As the subframe swings back down slip the backside of the boot around carby and use a screwdriver to push the nearside on. You don't need any grease or spray.

I'm not trying to be smart about this but it is really not hard - just did mine again last week. And like I said before, most carb stuff can be done without removal you just need to loosen clamps and rotate carb side to side.

It's just a matter of getting used to doing the jobs. The first time we took the fuel tank off my mates fuel injected Yamaha there was some head scratching and looking at the manual but it is not really a hard job when you know how it all goes.

[mlatour]

20 hours ago, Caleb Breaux said:

No sorry you just can't not on my bike.

I own a 2008 CRF250X, it has the exact same layout as your 2015.   (2004-2017 X's are 99% identical)

and yes with some dexterity you CAN replace both the throttle cables without removing the carburetor from the engine,

If I remember correctly the exhaust header must be removed and extra long/slim needle nose pliers are required.

 

I agree that accessing the shock, carburetor and airboot is a tight squeeze on many CRF's but it's

the price to pay for such a slim mid-section which makes the bike feel very nimble despite it's porky weight.

The Honda engineers had riding performance (fit, feel, ergonomics) as a priority rather than ease of wrenching.

 

After you've dis-assembled / re-assembled your CRF250X from A to Z a few times,

you'll learn tricks to make future servicing much easier.

Edited June 13, 2018 by mlatour

[Steph7]

I also hated it at first, but once you do it a few times its a breeze.

My club is 60-70% orange...the amount of problems these guys have with water in the airbox is insane for such a modern machine.

I remind myself of that every time I have to change the air filter on this tight airbox, at least its always dry and water in the engine is a non issue! ? 

I also like that I can buy a 20$ used radiator from an 04-17 250x or 250r, talk to your orange friends about prices...it puts a smile on my face everytime I work on the bike or have to replace a part I busted ?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Steph7

[motrock93b]

 
R and D fuel screw sorts out the mixture adjustment.

This. A regular adjustable fuel screw is difficult to access with the starter motor so close to the float bowl.

[Piney Woods]

There is a reason bowling exists.

[ronbuell]

Just got an '04 250X, felt same way first time I did it too.  Agree with shock out, and I leave the carb in the boot and pull it from the intake manifold; reverse going back.  Will prob get an R&D Fuel Screw soon.

[gvdirt]

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