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BLM Officer Shoots Off-Roader: Justified or Gross Negligence?

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11 minutes ago, Gflo said:

I doubt they will need help with any bills.  They probably have attorneys lined up at their door wanting a piece of this lawsuit.

It's a real shame that they should even need a damned ambulance chaser to begin with. Those vultures will only leave  them with 60% of what they deserve.

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8 hours ago, Joisey said:

Wharton State Forest in NJ, for one, disagrees.  It comes in at just under 123,000 acres.

I think you may be a bit confused what type of land is being discusses here since New Jersey is one of ten states that does NOT have any national forest land nor BLM land for that matter. A state park is not the same as most public lands(BLM and USFS), it is much more redistricted and regulated plus 123,000 acres is VERY VERY small to the vast tracts of land out west. To give you a perspective my local national forest here in central Oregon 1.8 MILLION acres..

Edited by TommyB 754
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                  BLM imo should be disbanded.Local government  would be better suited to manage their own back yard.It makes me sick hearing about some east coast senator sponsoring a wilderness bill aka (land grab). monument designation,wilderness, are more tools the enviro-nazis use to lock out the people from your public lands.It never ends,as long as complacency exists the enviro vultures keep coming back for more meat.  Hopefully a conservative administration runs our country for a long time,We need to stop the land grabs,and get back what we lost with bo in charge.

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12 hours ago, Dragon351 said:

Since BLM had their budget cut by almost 170 million in 2017, we can’t expect BLM field training to improve. 

And since they laid off over 1000 staff (of approx 8000) in 2018, we *can* expect stress levels to rise. 

This seems to be a familiar story, just played out in the off road community, rather than on the street. Concern about police shootings is finally, and appropriately on the rise. LEO need increased funding for conflict management resolution training that avoids escalating suspected victimless crime into injury or death. 

                          This is the new administrations way to stop the madness quickly,till they can be dismantled,de-fund these tools, blm deserves no  sympathy,they have allowed their rank to become infiltrated with enviro-nazis  to spread a biased agenda.An Agenda with the end game being total closure like most of the east coast.

Hopefully the rats will start jumping ship on there own,once the money drys up. 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Dragon351 said:

Since BLM had their budget cut by almost 170 million in 2017, we can’t expect BLM field training to improve. 

And since they laid off over 1000 staff (of approx 8000) in 2018, we *can* expect stress levels to rise. 

This seems to be a familiar story, just played out in the off road community, rather than on the street. Concern about police shootings is finally, and appropriately on the rise. LEO need increased funding for conflict management resolution training that avoids escalating suspected victimless crime into injury or death. 

 

 

 

 

                  This is the new administrations way to stop the madness quickly,till they can be dismantled,de-fund these tools, blm deserves no  sympathy,they have allowed their rank to become infiltrated with enviro-nazis  to spread a biased agenda.An Agenda with the end game being total closure like most of the east coast.

Hopefully the rats will start jumping ship on there own,once the money drys up.

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13 hours ago, HeavyRotation said:

Damn, y'all like dem forbs dat much? Don't particular care fer greens mahsef.

We were sheep people*, its just what we do.  Mares eat oats and doe eat oats, but little lambs eat ivy. 

 

*not to be confused with sheeple. 

Edited by crypto666
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2 hours ago, ADAM_3rd said:

                  BLM imo should be disbanded.Local government  would be better suited to manage their own back yard.It makes me sick hearing about some east coast senator sponsoring a wilderness bill aka (land grab). monument designation,wilderness, are more tools the enviro-nazis use to lock out the people from your public lands.It never ends,as long as complacency exists the enviro vultures keep coming back for more meat.  Hopefully a conservative administration runs our country for a long time,We need to stop the land grabs,and get back what we lost with bo in charge.

Actually, that's basically what the science on the subject says also. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162250/

Quote

We present a new approach to the investigation of human influences on environmental change that explicitly adds consideration of social organization. This approach identifies social organization as an influence on the environment that is independent of population size, affluence, and technology. The framework we present also identifies population events, such as births, that are likely to influence environmental outcomes beyond the consequences of population size. The theoretical framework we construct explains that explicit attention to social organization is necessary for micro-level investigation of the population-environment relationship because social organization influences both.

Digested, it says that if you piss off everyone you won't be able to manage anything. 

Which is a very good reason to keep your nose picker off the bullet flipper until you are certain that there is a threat.

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13 hours ago, zig06 said:

Yes, in America we have guns and we will use them - is there a problem?  :cool:

Compare gun ownership and shootings in other countries and get back with us.  Beyond all of that we do have laws and it appears that the BLM agent in this case clearly forgot a few of them.

I have guns too,just seems to be from an outsiders perspective yall keep shooting each other theres not gonna be many of you left,:ride:

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On 6/14/2018 at 11:40 AM, Chasejj said:

No. The problem is they hire douchebag liberals to staff these positions who walk in with an ingrained bias and give them license and a gun to enforce what are for the most part not really crimes at all.

PS: Before this gets out of hand. I am super Pro LE. But my dealings with a couple of Regional Park Police and USFS Rangers has me questioning what they consider to be priorities. 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think thatt "douchebag liberals" would know how, or even agree to handle firearms.

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On 6/14/2018 at 3:55 PM, cjjeepercreeper said:

BLM LEOs have a very tough and often dangerous job. We have 2 in our district that covers 1.6 million acres. Tell me they shouldn't be armed. How about coming across a bunch of tweakers cooking way out in the hills and your nearest backup is an hour away. How about coming across a bunch of drunks in SxSs tearing up a protected area, and they have to break up the "fun". I have a lot of respect for our 2 officers and have met both of them a number of times. They have only been courteous, professional and helpful. We have absolutely no idea what happened in this instance, very little factual info, and the media is notoriously anti law enforcement. And for some unfathomable reason so are some of you, or is it just fashionable nowadays to badmouth law enforcement?

Not to mention the very spotty radio coverage out in that area.  They might not even be able to call for backup!

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On 6/14/2018 at 6:09 PM, Joisey said:

Don't know about your state, but here if you ride on my property, even without my permission, and get hurt, you can sue me. 

I bought the land I have so that I can enjoy it, not for the general public to enjoy it.  I got in that same argument with a guy I caught trespassing.  He said I wasn't using my land at the time he was trespassing, so he was doing no harm. 

I asked him if he was married, and he said he was.  Then I asked if since he wasn't using his wife at the current time, I wanted to. He seemed to be upset by what I said.

Where I grew up, in New Mexico, the owner of the property behind ours had fenced it off to keep their cattle from wandering off.  I went to them and asked if I could ride on their property in exchange for me riding their fence line and making sure everything was okay.  They were down with that and I didn't have to maintain or fix the fence, just report what was wrong.

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On 6/14/2018 at 5:48 PM, JoeRC51 said:

It used to be you could ride anywhere unless someone said you couldn't and that was the end of it , these days you can't ride anywhere unless someone says you can and people want your balls if they don't want you there. People need to loosen up , if it's not a noise problem and the only thing left behind is tire tracks , who cares.

That's not for you to decide. And today we have a lawsuit problem. Someone get's hurt while trespassing on your property and you can be held liable.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/when-property-owner-liable-trespassers-injuries.html

 

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There is no trespass going on here. The issue at hand is operation of an unregistered vehicle on National Park lands. A chunk of desert is hardly a National Park – imo – but they are everywhere.

Budget cuts may limit BLM activities – but don’t hold your breath. The more likely outcome is the whole thing will be designated a wilderness. No people, no cost. The Angeles National Forest has already implemented that plan as a brilliant executive response to budget cuts. So, get ready for that.

The only way the BLM could have made this right is IF agent #2 had opened fire on agent #1 at the scene – That opportunity is long past.....

Edited by Clicked
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2 hours ago, Deftone said:

That's not for you to decide. And today we have a lawsuit problem. Someone get's hurt while trespassing on your property and you can be held liable.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/when-property-owner-liable-trespassers-injuries.html

 

Learned that probably on my first day of law school 40 years ago.  Best example is a "Beware of Dog" sign doesn't absolve you of any responsibility if your dog bites a trespasser.

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10 hours ago, hitman hart said:

I have guns too,just seems to be from an outsiders perspective yall keep shooting each other theres not gonna be many of you left,:ride:

                   IF you believe msm I can understand your perspective.  two thirds of the gun deaths in America are suicide,more people die from obesity that guns.Right now msm is at war with our 2nd amendment,and with our president.Fake news exists,believe it.

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14 hours ago, crypto666 said:

Actually, that's basically what the science on the subject says also. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162250/

Digested, it says that if you piss off everyone you won't be able to manage anything. 

Which is a very good reason to keep your nose picker off the bullet flipper until you are certain that there is a threat.

                    That is a interestingly long read.  The feds have been treating states like a blacksheep stepchild for too long.I think its part of the current political wave,people are tired of being told  this is how it is,shut up and accept it.

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On 6/15/2018 at 5:19 AM, Dragon351 said:

Since BLM had their budget cut by almost 170 million in 2017, we can’t expect BLM field training to improve. 

And since they laid off over 1000 staff (of approx 8000) in 2018, we *can* expect stress levels to rise. 

This seems to be a familiar story, just played out in the off road community, rather than on the street. Concern about police shootings is finally, and appropriately on the rise. LEO need increased funding for conflict management resolution training that avoids escalating suspected victimless crime into injury or death. 

 

 

 

 

Training, seriously?

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7 minutes ago, ADAM_3rd said:

                    That is a interestingly long read.  The feds have been treating states like a blacksheep stepchild for too long.I think its part of the current political wave,people are tired of being told  this is how it is,shut up and accept it.

People have never liked being told what to do, but it seems more and more some like to tell others what to do.  Relatively small groups of people found a way to use the federal government as a tool to force their beliefs on to other; it's called the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA).

NEPA was born out of the 1960's environmental movement (dumb hypocritical rich kid hippies), but appears to be created by lawyers for lawyers.  It basically says the federal government must not needless destroy things and it must take in to account stakeholder (people, you, me) interests in to any decision the federal government makes.  Sounds good to me.

So now someone bitches, the government must listen.  The problem is small groups of people (hippie offspring tree huggers) figured out they could bitch from long distances and force their will on others, and that this is a complicated thing to do and must be facilitated by lawyers. 

Lawyers cost money, but people "care."  People tend to get emotional about things they think are neat, but don't understand.  Like whales, people don't know shit about whales, but they care so deeply about them.  Partly because their parent was a hypocritical hippie idiot that brainwashed them, and partly because of walt disney.   People don't know shit about their own environment, but they care so deeply.  So much so they throw money at it.

The small groups and their lawyers have now created an industry; the conflict industry. 

 

Before NEPA the Federal govt was simply known for helping get good things done.  Western land agencies in the 1930-1970 implemented more land treatments than any other entity in the world, all for the good of the people and nothing else. 

 

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52 minutes ago, ADAM_3rd said:

                   IF you believe msm I can understand your perspective.  two thirds of the gun deaths in America are suicide,more people die from obesity that guns.Right now msm is at war with our 2nd amendment,and with our president.Fake news exists,believe it.

People deliberately mis-classify gun deaths to inflate the numbers for use in their political agendas. They will tell you thaty 38,000 people a year are killed by guns, oh my god that's insane. 

What they don't tell you is that 22,000 of those are suicides. Over a thousand were police shootings. More than 500 are accidental shootings. So you're left with 14,000, out of a country of 330 million people. And probably half of those were criminals killing other criminals. 

If you listen to the media, we're living in a war zone. But it's not true. Gun violence, and in fact all types of violent crime,  has been declining for 3 decades.

SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-1.png

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