2013 Beta 350 RR Project: Aftermarket connecting rod? 390 RR Crankshaft?

[j_franich]

Hello everyone,

I'm not a very active poster (or rider anymore), but I do appreciate all of the information and time that is shared on this site.  I recently picked up a 2013 Beta 350 RR basket-case.  It appears to have been ridden hard and poorly maintained.  The engine will at a minimum need a cylinder, piston, intake valves, and valve guides.  The rod doesn't seem to have excessive play (though I haven't yet gone through the procedure detailed in the manual to determine if it is within spec), but since it is all apart it seems like the time to service the crank.  Has anyone found an aftermarket rod that will work on these engines?  If not, is it possible to fit the 390 crankshaft in this year of 350?  

 

I also have a 2016 XTrainer that I purchased new (the only bike that I've every purchased new), I absolutely love the power delivery.....and I despise the forks.  I'm not sure yet if this bike will replace the XTrainer or be a stable-mate.

Thanks for all of your help, and when I finally get around to this project I'll do my best put together a thread.

[Marco the Pool Boy]

Seeing that the ‘13 is of the earlier engine case and crankshaft design I would find it highly unlikely that the newer crank will fit.

If it was mine I’d look towards one of the aftermarket crank companies. Or get to be buddies with a local Beta dealer, and buy all new OEM parts through them.
Also if the intake valves/guides are shot, it might be in the best interest in replacing all valves and guides.
I’ve spent a lot of time with rebuilding CRF250/450’s and IF the exhaust valves are shot, I’ve replaced all of them, as I skimped once, and only once as I trashed a 1/2 rebuilt head replacing only what I thought was tired.

Though this sounds like a fun project, I’m jealous !!

[j_franich]

The intake guides were damaged when the valves were bent.  I'm not certain what failed initially, but the piston came into contact with the intake valves.  I'm only guessing that the timing chain may have slipped at high RPMs.  You make a good point, that for the cost of the valves/guides that I should change all four while it is apart.  

I noticed in the parts diagram that I found online that some of the parts mention that they are for the 350/390, so I was hopeful that I may be able to use the 390 crank.  Has anyone here compared the two generations of the 350 engines?

I'm in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, near Marquette.  There is a Beta dealer in town, I'll put together a thorough parts list once I inspect everything and pay him a visit.  Running a small business myself I try to keep my money as local as possible.  The Xtrainer I bought before moving to the area, and with only 5 tanks of gas through it I haven't needed to replace anything yet....

 

 

[Danceswithtrees]

37 minutes ago, j_franich said:

The intake guides were damaged when the valves were bent.  I'm not certain what failed initially, but the piston came into contact with the intake valves.  I'm only guessing that the timing chain may have slipped at high RPMs.  You make a good point, that for the cost of the valves/guides that I should change all four while it is apart.  

I noticed in the parts diagram that I found online that some of the parts mention that they are for the 350/390, so I was hopeful that I may be able to use the 390 crank.  Has anyone here compared the two generations of the 350 engines?

I'm in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, near Marquette.  There is a Beta dealer in town, I'll put together a thorough parts list once I inspect everything and pay him a visit.  Running a small business myself I try to keep my money as local as possible.  The Xtrainer I bought before moving to the area, and with only 5 tanks of gas through it I haven't needed to replace anything yet....

 

 

The 390 is not going to work, it has a 6mm longer stroke and even if the crank fit in the case there would be too much other stuff to change and it would be expensive.

Btw I'm the Beta dealer in Marquette.

[j_franich]

4 minutes ago, Danceswithtrees said:

The 390 is not going to work, it has a 6mm longer stroke and even if the crank fit in the case there would be too much other stuff to change and it would be expensive.

Btw I'm the Beta dealer in Marquette.

Thanks for the information!  Once I get my list together I'll be in to see you.  

[dirtbird]

This is 1st Gen Beta engine, so you should compare to RR 400 instead of 390.

If you need a cylinder as you right in the first post, then you may consider going this route as an upgrade. The 400 had a quite different powerband and it can be considered as the revver of the lot. It was good for about 43 hp at the wheel. Personally liked it more than the 350 and it should not be confused with the post 2015 390 as it was way more oversquare (450 piston, combined with the shorter stroke of all) 

However I think that you will need another head AND CDI... 

Edited July 21, 2018 by dirtbird

[j_franich]

1 hour ago, dirtbird said:

This is 1st Gen Beta engine, so you should compare to RR 400 instead of 390.

If you need a cylinder as you right in the first post, then you may consider going this route as an upgrade. The 400 had a quite different powerband and it can be considered as the revver of the lot. It was good for about 43 hp at the wheel. Personally liked it more than the 350 and it should not be confused with the post 2015 390 as it was way more oversquare (450 piston, combined with the shorter stroke of all) 

However I think that you will need another head AND CDI... 

While I'm not cheap, I am cash-flow challenged.....so I will likely keep it a 350 if it means that I won't have to buy a new head and CDI.

 

Here is a picture of the project, I made a stop-over at my parent's farm near Ithaca, MI on my way home.

[Freedom67]

I'd rebuild the 350 and modernize as you go. Beta's are great scooters early one's just need catching up on some external components. Update forks, shock, brakes as you go. 

My 16' 300 RR just got front cartridge replacement and that has made a big difference.

[hawaiidirtrider]

On 7/22/2018 at 10:39 AM, Freedom67 said:

I'd rebuild the 350 and modernize as you go. Beta's are great scooters early one's just need catching up on some external components. Update forks, shock, brakes as you go. 

My 16' 300 RR just got front cartridge replacement and that has made a big difference.

What kind of cartridge did you put in ???

Edited July 24, 2018 by hawaiidirtrider

[Freedom67]

Enduro Spec/MX-Tech Drop in Cartridge System. I did the work since it's pretty straight forward. The people there are real easy to work with and have cartridges ready to go once you supply your riding and self spec. Not cheap mine was 1100 but that was with change of spring and new seal set, bushings and oil. Much more adjustability and I can actually feel the clicker changes which I could not do with the stock units. I know Sachs are better in 18' and 19' but for me this was the least expensive and efficient.

[hawaiidirtrider]

9 minutes ago, Freedom67 said:

Enduro Spec/MX-Tech Drop in Cartridge System. I did the work since it's pretty straight forward. The people there are real easy to work with and have cartridges ready to go once you supply your riding and self spec. Not cheap mine was 1100 but that was with change of spring and new seal set, bushings and oil. Much more adjustability and I can actually feel the clicker changes which I could not do with the stock units. I know Sachs are better in 18' and 19' but for me this was the least expensive and efficient.

Cool! Sounds good !!

[j_franich]

Just over a year later, and I'm finally starting to think about this project.  Does anyone have the valve specifications for a 2013 350rr?  I'm hoping to find stainless steel replacements for the stock titanium valves.  There isn't enough left of my intake valves to get an accurate measurement.

[hawaiidirtrider]

There is this option too although I am rediscovering my 2012 350 rr and liking the bike alot lately. I’m just wondering about the feasibility of getting Beta parts together at a reasonable price. Maybe but Betas aren’t common bikes. It’s more common than they used to be though. I guess keep shopping around..

 

https://www.bike-urious.com/cr500-powered-2012-beta-super moto

Edited August 8, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[j_franich]

That CR500rr is a cool project, but I bought this because I really liked a 350 that I rode.  I'll keep digging, and if I find alternatives to OEM I'll make sure to pass that info along.  

[hawaiidirtrider]

4 minutes ago, j_franich said:

That CR500rr is a cool project, but I bought this because I really liked a 350 that I rode.  I'll keep digging, and if I find alternatives to OEM I'll make sure to pass that info along.  

 

On 7/21/2018 at 9:33 AM, j_franich said:

While I'm not cheap, I am cash-flow challenged.....so I will likely keep it a 350 if it means that I won't have to buy a new head and CDI.

 

Here is a picture of the project, I made a stop-over at my parent's farm near Ithaca, MI on my way home.

Have you made a list of parts and prices to start? Just a tally to get a good guestimate of total cost would be a good start. Strategy comes after that on the next step. I have no clue what parts alone might be. .. not cheap though but since you doing the work then that makes things cheaper. 

[j_franich]

I put together a parts list last year, from what I remember it was a bit over $2k, that included buying a new head.  I'm currently working out of state, but will be back soon and want to get this project off of my to-do list.  

[hawaiidirtrider]

You may even find that you don’t need to change the crank too.. you never know till you check later.. 

[shortman]

I have a 2015 500 RS (first year of the shorter stroke and last year of the carb)....  I picked up a complete 2012 498 engine that had suffered oil pump gear failure...  The head and cams were toast so I bought a head & cams from a 2016 500 RR-S.  I sent the head out to Thumper Racing for their trail porting and just got the whole package back together....  It runs really good...  Not night and day different than my 477cc engine but I do feel the 2.4mm stroke increase right off idle.....

Where I'm going with this is if your crank is bad and you have to buy one I would suggest buying the 63.4mm stroke.  That gives you the option of making the bike a 400, 450 OR 498 vs staying with the 57.4mm your only choice is leaving it as a 350.  Obviously if you are cash poor and your crank is good then the cheapest thing is to just put it back together as a 350.