Bent pipe? Aftermarket solutions?

[Chevy_97]

So I've seen multiple people talking lately about their expansion chamber bending on their new 250/ 300.. I haven't ran into this issue yet, but I havent had any really hard impacts to the pipe yet on my '18 300 xc... From what I've read, the stock pipe bends so badly that it won't line up or seal correctly with the exhaust flange on the cylinder. @farmboybunk has even had his flange break off! @cdf450 has had issues with sealing as well...

So anyways, this got me thinking about getting an aftermarket pipe for my bike so I can avoid this problem all together. I came over from the Yamaha 2 stroke section where the discussion on different pipes is never ending. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but I assume that's because the general consensus seems to be that the stock pipe works best.

So we all know the fmf gnarly is a strong pipe made from thicker guage metal. The problem is that this pipe sucks, period. Especially for a 300 where you certainly don't want to sacrifice anymore from the top end... There is another armoured pipe out there though that I am very interested in, that's the DEP pipe. (They have a standard version as well as the armoured. Same pipe, thinner guage steel)

This is widely regarded as the best option for the yz250 as it increases the power across the entire rpm range. Slight increase down low, healthy midrange gains, and huge gains in the top end/ revs. I'd love to know if the KTM version has the same power delivery, as this would be perfect for our 300's IMO... What's also interesting is the DEP pipe for my YZ300 uses the same P3 carbon fiber guard as the stock KTM pipe (not sure what years). This has made us Yamaha guys wonder if DEP designs their pipes around the KTM model, so maybe it is very similar to our stockers? I don't have the armoured version on that bike, but it still seems to be very strong. 

I'm just thinking out loud here. If anyone has the DEP pipe (or any other aftermarket pipe for that matter) and can share your experience on the durability/ power delivery that would be awesome.. 

Quick note, if you do get one of these armoured pipes I would also get an exhaust flange protector. If the pipe is strong enough to not bend/ dent the shock from the impact is going to go somewhere! 

[rpt50]

I think that a lot of the pipe bending problems come from the use of a carbon fiber pipe guard.  That's what happened to my pipe.  CF pipe guards fit snug and therefore transfer all of the energy of an impact to the whole pipe.  You get good ding protection, but big hits bend the whole pipe.  My pipe is ding free, but seriously misaligned. 

I have two other bikes with old school heavy duty aluminum guards.  They look like crap and catch a lot of mud, but they offer ding protection AND protection against big hits, because they have crush space between the pipe and the guard that absorbs the energy of big hits.  Excellent protection for $45, and you can bend it to fit any bike you want.

I will never buy another CF pipe guard.  

  

Edited July 29, 2018 by rpt50

[Orange Crush 500]

I always believed historically Pro Circuit pipes, broadened the power everywhere but mostly mid to  top end.

Just like FMF pipes do just  the opposite  broaden power everywhere but mostly low and mid. 

But im not familiar with them on a 300

[2strokenut]

4 hours ago, Chevy_97 said:

So I've seen multiple people talking lately about their expansion chamber bending on their new 250/ 300.. I haven't ran into this issue yet, but I havent had any really hard impacts to the pipe yet on my '18 300 xc... From what I've read, the stock pipe bends so badly that it won't line up or seal correctly with the exhaust flange on the cylinder. @farmboybunk has even had his flange break off! @cdf450 has had issues with sealing as well...

So anyways, this got me thinking about getting an aftermarket pipe for my bike so I can avoid this problem all together. I came over from the Yamaha 2 stroke section where the discussion on different pipes is never ending. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but I assume that's because the general consensus seems to be that the stock pipe works best.

So we all know the fmf gnarly is a strong pipe made from thicker guage metal. The problem is that this pipe sucks, period. Especially for a 300 where you certainly don't want to sacrifice anymore from the top end... There is another armoured pipe out there though that I am very interested in, that's the DEP pipe. (They have a standard version as well as the armoured. Same pipe, thinner guage steel)

This is widely regarded as the best option for the yz250 as it increases the power across the entire rpm range. Slight increase down low, healthy midrange gains, and huge gains in the top end/ revs. I'd love to know if the KTM version has the same power delivery, as this would be perfect for our 300's IMO... What's also interesting is the DEP pipe for my YZ300 uses the same P3 carbon fiber guard as the stock KTM pipe (not sure what years). This has made us Yamaha guys wonder if DEP designs their pipes around the KTM model, so maybe it is very similar to our stockers? I don't have the armoured version on that bike, but it still seems to be very strong. 

I'm just thinking out loud here. If anyone has the DEP pipe (or any other aftermarket pipe for that matter) and can share your experience on the durability/ power delivery that would be awesome.. 

Quick note, if you do get one of these armoured pipes I would also get an exhaust flange protector. If the pipe is strong enough to not bend/ dent the shock from the impact is going to go somewhere! 

Only idiots think a stock YZ250 pipe is "best". Best for what? The PC in my experience (see sig) pretty much extends power everywhere on the YZ and does the same thing on the KTM 250/300s. I think the PC metal is a little thinner but the power increase is worth it. Don't worry so much about which pipe is strongest but which pipe you like best or gives the best power. Just buy a few tools and learn to blow out pipes yourself when you do smash them. I would recommend a flange protector. Broke my first flange ever a few months back and that was a pain. I also completely smashed 4 pipes before (rotating between OEM and PCP) and never broke the flange, the last crash seemed to have bent the pipe perfectly. Just unlucky I guess.

 

Don't get a Gnarly, or FMF. I ran an HGS on my 14 300Sx and really liked it but did more moto back then. Don't know anyone with a DEP but if gains are good and it's a little stronger it may be worth trying.

 

To be quite honest, you'll get better bang for your buck by getting your head properly set up by someone like RK Tek, blowing out your stock pipe, and trying a shorter silencer with a different inner diameter. Going that route will yield cleaner jetting, better running with pump gas and more power everywhere. I've found the silencer makes as as big/bigger difference than the pipe on the KTMs. I like the PC factory sound and just tried a shorty for a bit and it's quite dramatic. If you need a sparky you may want to cut it down a bit. I plan on trying that so I can have an SA for races that require it, won't be for a few months.

[Chevy_97]

12 minutes ago, 2strokenut said:

Only idiots think a stock YZ250 pipe is "best". Best for what? The PC in my experience (see sig) pretty much extends power everywhere on the YZ and does the same thing on the KTM 250/300s. I think the PC metal is a little thinner but the power increase is worth it. Don't worry so much about which pipe is strongest but which pipe you like best or gives the best power. Just buy a few tools and learn to blow out pipes yourself when you do smash them. I would recommend a flange protector. Broke my first flange ever a few months back and that was a pain. I also completely smashed 4 pipes before (rotating between OEM and PCP) and never broke the flange, the last crash seemed to have bent the pipe perfectly. Just unlucky I guess.

 

Don't get a Gnarly, or FMF. I ran an HGS on my 14 300Sx and really liked it but did more moto back then. Don't know anyone with a DEP but if gains are good and it's a little stronger it may be worth trying.

 

To be quite honest, you'll get better bang for your buck by getting your head properly set up by someone like RK Tek, blowing out your stock pipe, and trying a shorter silencer with a different inner diameter. Going that route will yield cleaner jetting, better running with pump gas and more power everywhere. I've found the silencer makes as as big/bigger difference than the pipe on the KTMs. I like the PC factory sound and just tried a shorty for a bit and it's quite dramatic. If you need a sparky you may want to cut it down a bit. I plan on trying that so I can have an SA for races that require it, won't be for a few months.

I might not have been clear on what I was saying. I meant that most people seem to think the stock pipe works best on the KTMs (not so on the YZ). I assume that's why there isn't as much discussions about aftermarket pipes here in the KTM section vs the yam 2t forums... The DEP pipe is a big favorite on the YZ. Very similar to the way you describe the PC pipe. Gains across the board with most noticable being in the top end/ over rev. Perfect for a 300 imo.

I never really considered the FMF as an option. Hopefully someone can tell me their experience with the DEP on their KTM. If it's the same power delivery as the Yam version I think it may be the best option both in power and durability. My stocker is still in perfect condition so I won't be making a change right away, just starting a discussion. Dents and dings aren't much of a concern, but I don't like what I'm hearing about how the stock pipe tends to bend. 

[2strokenut]

7 minutes ago, Chevy_97 said:

I might not have been clear on what I was saying. I meant that most people seem to think the stock pipe works best on the KTMs (not so on the YZ). I assume that's why there isn't as much discussions about aftermarket pipes here in the KTM section vs the yam 2t forums... The DEP pipe is a big favorite on the YZ. Very similar to the way you describe the PC pipe. Gains across the board with most noticable being in the top end/ over rev. Perfect for a 300 imo.

I never really considered the FMF as an option. Hopefully someone can tell me their experience with the DEP on their KTM. If it's the same power delivery as the Yam version I think it may be the best option both in power and durability. My stocker is still in perfect condition so I won't be making a change right away, just starting a discussion. Dents and dings aren't much of a concern, but I don't like what I'm hearing about how the stock pipe tends to bend. 

Ah, my bad. In that case, I feel the stock is stronger than the fmf and pc for sure.

 

Advice about the head still relevant. Pipes are a poor return from an improvement standpoint. If you're looking for improved performance you can't beat it. And it'll never get dented ?

[1trackmind]

5 minutes ago, Chevy_97 said:

 Hopefully someone can tell me their experience with the DEP on their KTM. If it's the same power delivery as the Yam version I think it may be the best option both in power and durability.

I have a DEP on my 13 300xc but I’m not much help. That’s the pipe that came on the bike when I bought it used. I don’t have any experience to compare it to. It does seem beefy and has taken a beating. I’ve been riding mountains and racing desert here in Utah for over a year, approximately 120 hours that I put on the bike. I don’t have any guards or protection on the pipe and it is showing dings an a few small dents. 

[Chevy_97]

6 minutes ago, 2strokenut said:

Ah, my bad. In that case, I feel the stock is stronger than the fmf and pc for sure.

 

Advice about the head still relevant. Pipes are a poor return from an improvement standpoint. If you're looking for improved performance you can't beat it. And it'll never get dented ?

You're absolutely right about the head. RB did the head on my yz with the 300 kit and it made a huge difference, and made jetting a breeze... I'll get around to doing it on my KTM eventually, but it was actually really easy to jet with the Keihen pwk. This bike has the most power of any 300 I've ridden to be honest. I'm not really looking for any big gains (more revs wouldn't hurt as is the case with any 300) I just don't want a pipe that is going to rob me of any performance (FMF)... I really just want a stronger pipe that is as good as the stocker. I'm thinking the armoured DEP will fit the bill. Thanks for everyone's input so far.

[GRamg]

Have an RK head I'm waiting to put on my 250. Want to get some more hours on the bike, so I can actually feel any gains (it's over 100* here, tough to get out for long).

Did put a PC Platinum on it, and found like you describe Chevy, picked up a little off bottom, and a nice surge in the mids, and pretty decent over-rev. happy with that investment.

At the same time I put a manifold flange protector on as well. Figured cheap insurance after buddy laid my bike down and I saw the damage it did to the pipe..

[offrd beatr]

I've never had a pipe bend on my Japanese bikes. Dented them, yes. Bend, no. First time I flopped my xcw over it bent the pipe. No dent, not even a real scratch but it was kinked over enough to pull the orings out of the head flange on one side. A stronger alternative would be nice.

[mog]

I don't feel ktm pipes are weak ,the thickness and welds seem spot on ,maybe they make them fat for good performance,no pipe after an 85 has enough volume for max hp

[offrd beatr]

8 hours ago, mog said:

I don't feel ktm pipes are weak ,the thickness and welds seem spot on ,maybe they make them fat for good performance,no pipe after an 85 has enough volume for max hp

They are weak. Flopped it over in a grass field. Not enough of a direct impact to dent or scratch the pipe but it kinked enough to pull it part way out if the flange. Weak shit.

[Chevy_97]

It sounds like the PC platinum 2 would be a good option for our 300's with the extra top end/ over rev. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they offer that one for the '17+ models yet. Just the standard platinum/ works which aren't made from the more durable 18 gauge steel. 

Slavens sells the DEP armoured pipe and he says it is his pipe of choice in the review vid on his site. More power everywhere, very linear, more peak hp, and 18 gauge. I'm gonna give it a shot. Only bummer is that P3 doesn't make a carbon fiber guard for this pipe, but from one of the previous posts it might be best to run without one anyways. 

Ive noticed the stock pipe on the KTM  hangs way out/ down low making it more prone to impacts. Hopefully the DEP tucks up and out of the way nicely like the YZ version:

Edited July 31, 2018 by Chevy_97

[Orange Crush 500]

Lots  of people saying the carbon fiber guards have no cushion in between the guard and the pipe to soak up the impact and the energy goes rite to the pipe and bends it.

Best ones bolt to the frame but cover the pipe  also, and no chance of bending the pipe wen hit. There was 3 different names of these guards that bolt to frame and protect pipe but i forget who makes them

 I dont even remember if it was this thread or a 300 thread 

[speedtoad]

I ordered a DEP pipe for my 200 on their website on got a 62 dollar discount. I noticed it when I put the pipe in my cart to buy it. Don't know why I got the discount, but so far I am happy with the pipe.

[Orange Crush 500]

So how much is the pipe with a $62 discount?

[2strokenut]

14 hours ago, Chevy_97 said:

It sounds like the PC platinum 2 would be a good option for our 300's with the extra top end/ over rev. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they offer that one for the '17+ models yet. Just the standard platinum/ works which aren't made from the more durable 18 gauge steel. 

Slavens sells the DEP armoured pipe and he says it is his pipe of choice in the review vid on his site. More power everywhere, very linear, more peak hp, and 18 gauge. I'm gonna give it a shot. Only bummer is that P3 doesn't make a carbon fiber guard for this pipe, but from one of the previous posts it might be best to run without one anyways. 

Ive noticed the stock pipe on the KTM  hangs way out/ down low making it more prone to impacts. Hopefully the DEP tucks up and out of the way nicely like the YZ version:

Yeah, it's a bummer about the PC2. But you have me intrigued about the DEP. I may get one to try out once I get my TPI. That won't be for a bit since I'm having surgery tomorrow.

 

Let us know how it goes with the DEP!