how are dirtbikes so dang fast on trails vs ATVers?

[sbest]

A 4x4 quad is generally 600+ lbs of slow moving tractor. A lighter quad can come pretty close to a bike in most conditions.

As stated the quad does have an advantage in mud, snow and sand. The above quads are about 300 lbs and have top speeds of 60-70mph. 

Also mentioned is how a bike struggles to keep up with the slow pace of a 4x4 quad. Bikes (and 2wd quads) use speed and momentum to get through the rough spots. 4x4 quads slow down and use gears. With the trend toward quads I find myself out biking with them a lot. Couldn't go full quad-tard, stuck with a lightweight with an MX motor in it for the snowy or muddy seasons. 

 

[Jim Dettman]

18 hours ago, willc86 said:

Only issue is, hopefully age is not a big factor.  30s, but still feel full of energy

 Not as big as you would think right off.

  40's is OK, but you start to understand that your loosing a little.  By early 50's, you really start noticing the difference.  Late 50's your looking for a mid-afternoon nap, but still can push through, and after dinner naps become the norm if you don't catch one in the afternoon.

Jim.

[Lovesdirt]

dang very nice. I ride a polaris 570 as quad goes,
 
then have a drz400e, klx250s, and cb500x as my light trail explorer.
Maybe the guys I encountered were A guys. Im just surprised a bike is capable to go that much faster than quads. I definitely want to get that good. I just was not sure it was capable with all that loose gravel/debris and on those down hill sections as well. 
 
 
 

I personally have only rode a atv maybe 3-4 times, you just don't have the control and slide threw the corners as you do on a bike, I like a small bike in the mountains I just bought a 2019 KTM and she is a beast compared to my 99 KTM 125 . It just takes practice and try not to ride over your head that's when the trees and cliffs win. Enjoy what ever you ride that's the beauty

[FORMA MOTO]

22 hours ago, willc86 said:

So I would consider myself a pretty advanced ATV rider. I can do very technical rides with some ease. So....I was on a Colorado trail yesterday...not very technical but about 50inch basic trail with turns ruts sand and pea gravel in the mountains.

 

Being a new dirtbike/dual sport rider, I think I would never be able to do those trails as fast as I saw some guys yesterday. So, Out of nowhere 2 dirt-bikes just blew right by us (being a 50in trail we do pretty slow) I was thinking to myself, no way can I do these trails; especially some of the downhill turn areas with this loose gravel/dirt!

 

Question is, are majority of dirt-bikes that much faster on trails vs ATVs? I tried to catch up as well, just to see if I can and definitely they blew us in the smokes. Im like dang! i want to be that good and fast! I mean can a dual sport be that fast as well? or its just straight up bikes are just faster than quads on trails?

 

It was the same thing on a trail called tincup pass. there was a few dirtbikers who just flew by us, and given this trail is rocky as well.

 

Would you guys say you do trails like that with easy and speed? can a dual sport reach those speeds as well?

 

Oxymoron

Jumbo Shrimp

Tall Midget

[RWW enduro]

1 hour ago, Lovesdirt said:

I personally have only rode a atv maybe 3-4 times, you just don't have the control and slide threw the corners as you do on a bike, I like a small bike in the mountains I just bought a 2019 KTM and she is a beast compared to my 99 KTM 125 . It just takes practice and try not to ride over your head that's when the trees and cliffs win. Enjoy what ever you ride that's the beauty

 

That is what I want to get good at, them slides through corners. So, what would you guys say on how long it will take for me to get pretty good at trails and probably at speeds faster than what ATVers goes. I do feel limited on an ATV, and do like going fast

 

only issue would be either I stick to a DRZ400e (street legal) or is there another bike I can get that can get me pretty decent performance thats street legal. Reason is, a lot of trails in Colorado are plated only. Also, do you think age (early 30s) hinders my ability to get that good?

 

Again im a new rider, just got into dirtbike riding. Seeing these riders zoom right by us, i was amazed. I was like dang I want to be that good on a bike! 

Ive heard a KTM690 enduro can keep up with A riders on dirtbike and even the KTM500  But figured I can use the DRZ and KLX250 for practice. I know its heavy, but honestly i never ridden dirtbikes, so I dont know what heavy is

 

[Yamadude333]

I don’t think a 690 would be a good trail bike, especially for a beginner. I have an mxc520 and an exc 300. Exc 300 is the perfect bike for just about anything but the street. (Two strokes suck on the street). They can be plated. Mine is. I have friends who have 450f bikes, they are basically the same exact speed as my 300 but in my opinion not as forgiving. Had a crf 450 and I did not like it.

[BillDirt1]

 
That is what I want to get good at, them slides through corners. So, what would you guys say on how long it will take for me to get pretty good at trails and probably at speeds faster than what ATVers goes. I do feel limited on an ATV, and do like going fast
 
only issue would be either I stick to a DRZ400e (street legal) or is there another bike I can get that can get me pretty decent performance thats street legal. Reason is, a lot of trails in Colorado are plated only. Also, do you think age (early 30s) hinders my ability to get that good?
 
Again im a new rider, just got into dirtbike riding. Seeing these riders zoom right by us, i was amazed. I was like dang I want to be that good on a bike! 
Ive heard a KTM690 enduro can keep up with A riders on dirtbike and even the KTM500  But figured I can use the DRZ and KLX250 for practice. I know its heavy, but honestly i never ridden dirtbikes, so I dont know what heavy is
 

Some suspension work is the most important, and overlooked

[RWW enduro]

2 minutes ago, Husqydude said:

I don’t think a 690 would be a good trail bike, especially for a beginner. I have an mxc520 and an exc 300. Exc 300 is the perfect bike for just about anything but the street. (Two strokes suck on the street). They can be plated. Mine is. I have friends who have 450f bikes, they are basically the same exact speed as my 300 but in my opinion not as forgiving. Had a crf 450 and I did not like it.

thanks for info! now this is where the dilemma starts hitting if I need to hop on the highway lol. For instance, theres a place called mosquito pass in colorado. Its a linear ride. So once I hit the end of the trail, I need to hop back on county roads to go back home or my truck if I tow it. 

[Yamadude333]

No hardcore dirtbike is great at highway speeds. They usually top out 70-80 and I don’t like running a two stroke flat out for long periods. I’ve already melted rings to my piston. (Granted I did have an air leak) if you want to get good at sliding around corners under power I do think a two stroke is easier for that. Higher revs breaks tire loose easier. I’m sure some advanced riders would disagree. But for the average rider I believe this holds true. A 300 two stroke has less torque then the big boy 450’s. When arm pump starts to wear on you putting it in a tree is much easier on a 4stroke. I’ve been through prob 8 different bikes over the years since I wasn’t smart enough as you to ask for advice. Found the 300 the best fit for me. I do tight single track to wide open fire roads and everything in between. Live in north East (pa). Rocks on top of rocks on top of rocks. Some of the riding very technical. When in doubt, squeeze your legs to the seat and give it more throttle! Been riding for eight years and I am still amazed almost every ride what these machines are capable of.

[offrd beatr]

That DRZ can flat rail. You're not too old. You just need lots of seat time and it helps to ride with pretty fast guys. 

[Huskydog14]

Has anyone mentioned the idea that a motorcycle only needs about a 3 inch line for the front and rear tire and they can move that line inbetween rocks etc and a 4 wheeler doesn't have that option. They have a line that is as wide as the 4 wheeler and sometimes that line isn't that great.On a 50 inch trail that leaves a lot of options for a motorcycle and maybe 2 lines for a 4 wheeler.

[RWW enduro]

well appreciate all the feedback! except for the disrespectful people on ATVers. I grew up mudding on ATVs and never introduced into dirtbikes, though I wish I was. Shit ton more fun. 

 

My dilemma now I guess is what can I buy that can get me around colorado trails. Ive seen people saying DR650s tackle forest trails pretyy good and can keep up with higher end dirtbike dudes..of course I know eventually experience comes into play. 

 

My drz400 can hit 70mph no problem. I geared a little high though. But can leave it like that until I get better on trails then lower the gearing to get that extra humph when I get more confident and comfortable. I honestly prefer bikes, esp that we can plate them out here issue with colorado is bunch of trails branch into the highways, so its something to think about. Heard though colorado is DR650 country though with the exception of single track (which there isnt many single tracks in CO in comparison to open forest roads and 50in trails) 

 

wost case scenerio, as I get better, I just get 2 bikes dr650 for highway exploring and drz400e (which I have now and seems to be the best all arounder).

 

I guess my question is can a drz400e and a dr650 keep up with the true or even outrun the ATVs on trails (not single track) just like what I saw the other day?

Edited August 6, 2018 by willc86

[Smacker601]

I think you would be money ahead to find a 450f of some type and add the light kit and plate it. I actually had a guy on a dr650 on my row in Florida last month. It was impressive to see. He was a early twenties guy that could roll, however after a half mile it was riding him. I talked with him after the race he said he would never take that bike back to a race.
His normal race bike is a 17' 300xc. He only brought the dr because he knocked a radiator off the day before at another race.

[Dmouse]

2 hours ago, offrd beatr said:

That DRZ can flat rail. You're not too old. You just need lots of seat time and it helps to ride with pretty fast guys. 

Yup

[Yamadude333]

Dr 650 is 330-340 lbs. over 100 lbs heavier then an older two stroke or modern day 4 stroke. For fire roads and road riding they are great bikes (my wife test road one). This is not a dirtbike unless you are a very big guy. It does have a lower seat height then mx bikes but it’s still a tank and seat height is always at the expense of suspension travel. No such thing as a perfect bike for everything. They are purpose built. If your not int two stroke check out mxc/exc 520/525/530. These would be better on the road then a two stroke but an excellent woods weapon. Not a beginner bike though for sure with a knickname of the “backbreaker”.

[Huskydog14]

21 hours ago, jcross312 said:

I dislike quad tards as much as the next guy, but some pro quad racers showed up at the local mx track a couple years ago and smoked everybody. Never seen quadtards go so fast.  Not sure if their are really fast quad trail riders or not. Just seems gay either way. Ride a bike

Check out the quads in the GNCC races sometime. 

[wyogirl311]

4 hours ago, willc86 said:

 

That is what I want to get good at, them slides through corners. So, what would you guys say on how long it will take for me to get pretty good at trails and probably at speeds faster than what ATVers goes. I do feel limited on an ATV, and do like going fast

 

only issue would be either I stick to a DRZ400e (street legal) or is there another bike I can get that can get me pretty decent performance thats street legal. Reason is, a lot of trails in Colorado are plated only. Also, do you think age (early 30s) hinders my ability to get that good?

 

Again im a new rider, just got into dirtbike riding. Seeing these riders zoom right by us, i was amazed. I was like dang I want to be that good on a bike! 

Ive heard a KTM690 enduro can keep up with A riders on dirtbike and even the KTM500  But figured I can use the DRZ and KLX250 for practice. I know its heavy, but honestly i never ridden dirtbikes, so I dont know what heavy is

 

So, you'll notice most trail riders in CO are on KTM's, Beta's, a few Husky's and a smattering of the rest.  As with most things, I would start out small - 250 and go from there. Most riders will never see the top end of a 250 on the trails in CO and a number of new riders that think they need the biggest bike possible (more horsepower, *grunt*) wind up selling it or never riding after they had their first major OTE (off trail excursion).  I plated my current bike (XCFW 250) and it fits all my needs, gets great fuel economy and I can hit any trail I want, with all the county road connectors in between. I do however typically trailer to the trail head because, well, I'm a trailer queen.

Depending on your location, check out some local riding clubs, show up to a meeting and get the local guys' opinions.  If you're in Northern Colorado - check out nctr.net (I'm a current member and past president); we meet the second Tuesday of every month at the KTM shop in Loveland.  I know there are clubs in the Springs, Denver and possibly Boulder.  Also, if you're only in your 30's - you have plenty  of riding years left.  Most of the guys in my club are ex-enduro racers and they'll blow the doors off most kids half their age. One of the guys who regularly rides just turned 70 and he still rips!  We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.

[RWW enduro]

38 minutes ago, Husqydude said:

Dr 650 is 330-340 lbs. over 100 lbs heavier then an older two stroke or modern day 4 stroke. For fire roads and road riding they are great bikes (my wife test road one). This is not a dirtbike unless you are a very big guy. It does have a lower seat height then mx bikes but it’s still a tank and seat height is always at the expense of suspension travel. No such thing as a perfect bike for everything. They are purpose built. If your not int two stroke check out mxc/exc 520/525/530. These would be better on the road then a two stroke but an excellent woods weapon. Not a beginner bike though for sure with a knickname of the “backbreaker”.

appreciate it!

yeah definitely going to wait on the exc. for now, going to practice on my klx250 and drz400e. But yeah, what you mentioned, I am a bigger dude. I weigh about 230 lbs and possibly will gain more (im a bodybuilder) but not sure if thats a huge impact. 

 

anyhow thanks for feedback!

[Dmouse]

 You already own the DRZ, I would try to make that work for you. Maybe your not familiar with setting up a motorcycle for yourself? There's the rear sag, handlebar and lever positioning, playing with your suspension clickers. Tire selection is important, especially the front (at least for me), Kenda and Pirelli make some good DOT knobbies. Is your E re-jetted, 3x3, and un-corked? If not, do it, makes a huge power difference

[LC_Lewiston]

On 8/5/2018 at 11:47 AM, JoeRC51 said:

Being an ''athlete'' doesn't necessarily make anybody any good at anything.  The transition from dirt to asphalt works out well , but someone that's only ridden asphalt will usually crap their pants sliding a tire in dirt. The roadracer at least will know the controls over a peddler , but a mountain bike is a far cry from offroading. A bicycle just rolls , a motorcycle can accelerate and power slide. 

I haven't had the same experience as you describe here. I've rode mountain bikes for 30 years... and moto for 1.5yr. The transition has gone great and I'm loving getting out on the trails of Norther Michigan and had a chance to ride in Estes Park back in June. I guess I'll have to enter a race to see if I'm A. B or C.  Then again maybe I won't and I'll just keep riding. 

My best friend has rode MX for 40 years and mountain bike for 30. Now that I ride both I see how the two have complemented for him and I fully understand how he always said 'when I'm riding my moto I miss my mountain bike and when I'm riding my mountain mike I miss my moto.'

Pedaling and throttle twisting are different, but balance, picking a line, strength/stamina and two-wheel experience aren't.