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Hey Dave,

I haven't  been down to ride in the USA for quite awhile cus the exchange rate SUCKS :( but since I've started using Avenza I have seen lots of PDF trail maps it Avenza on BLM, USFS sites and WAY more in the US than in Canada.

For example USFS for Stonyford (look at the right under ORV Maps (Unfortunately the forest fires are as BAD in BC ) :(

https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/mendocino/maps-pubs

Maybe here or ask in the Northwest forum

https://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/Pages/index.aspx

Otherwise I'm just up the coast from you and welcome to TT:)

Edited by filterx

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27 minutes ago, filterx said:

Hey Dave,

I haven't  been down to ride in the USA for quite awhile cus the exchange rate SUCKS :( but since I've started using Avenza I have seen lots of PDF trail maps it Avenza on BLM, USFS sites and WAY more in the US than in Canada.

For example USFS for Stonyford (look at the right under ORV Maps (Unfortunately the forest fires are as BAD in BC ) :(

https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/mendocino/maps-pubs

Maybe here or ask in the Northwest forum

https://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/Pages/index.aspx

Otherwise I'm just up the coast from you and welcome to TT:)

Thanks!

 

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Out here we call it Death By GPS.
It seem like every week the Search and Rescue are out looking for people who get lost.
The main thing to do is about every 5 minutes turn around and look back to where you just were.
That way it will be easier to find your way back.
I do not trust GPS as with all devices they can fail.
A USGS Topo map will not lose a charge or fail to load, and in the worst case can be used to start a rescue fire to that will alert search teams.
Wow. Troglodyte much? I spent all day today dead reckoning and it worked out but the one ride where i had functional gps (thanks to FilterX) made solo navigating an enormous riding area i didn't know much less stressful. Id have used it today but i can't find an Orux map of Oregon.
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Ya I get it, but show it to them, if they get separated/lost enough times, someone gets hurt, it's invaluable. I go ocean fishing and riding with a new rider, it's a piece of insurance for me, and I get to share locations where the tuna are with other fisherman while fishing, probably the best part  . 
Yup. I did 200 miles alone today, two way sat text and locating are super important. But i can't for the life of me figure out garmin's gps software. Half the time my inreach won't even sync to my phone.

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GPS won't keep you from becoming lost or save you. You do need basic land navigation skills and then GPS will be useful, as well as a map, compass, and situational awareness.  I've done marine navigation with and without GPS and land navigation during my military time.  Training and practice will help you avoid becoming lost, and help you reorient yourself when you do become mis-oriented.  Just remember that during land navigation you may become mis-oriented but never lost.  The skill is to be able to orient a paper map to the surrounding terrain. So I recommend everyone take a Land Navigation course, and then practice.

One area that I ride has a lot of logging roads with crossing trails. All of the crossings looked the same so with a GPS, map, and my PU I drove the area stopping at all trail crossings and orienting myself to the map. It sure helped on the next ride.

Edited by Chuck.
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I must be spoiled. I can drive twenty minutes, to Sabino Canyon, and go through the free maps. We also have a USFS office downtown I can go to, they have a better selection, but only by a couple topos, and harder to park.
I'd think Portland would have similar opportunities to go to the source...

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On 8/17/2018 at 9:38 PM, john170950 said:

maybe not a solution you want to use, but resetting your device back to factory will remove whatever update to the OS caused the problem.

Alternately to record your track, try Mendhak's GPSLogger, which will log to KML format.  or GPX which I use.  I have it on an old Samsung S4 works well with GPS only (no SIM), uses approx 10% of battery per 1 hour at the max data logging setting, with screen off of course.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mendhak.gpslogger

 

Thanks for the tips. I've got that gps logger installed, I'll try it out later this week. Thanks.

What I called an Update was actually a reset as my phone died and when I swapped batteries it did a factory reset.

On 8/17/2018 at 1:41 PM, ohgood said:

the battery optimization is putting GPS antenna to sleep in... turning it off.

 

you have to either run oruxmaps as a service, or disable the sleep function of that Android version.

 

I use locus, it is not effected by sleep because it runs as a background service. 

Thanks for the reply. I can't find anything on the googles about running an app "as a service," can you elaborate on that comment?

Disabling the Power Saving mode was the first thing I tried. No change.

Thanks!

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10 minutes ago, Hick said:

Thanks for the tips. I've got that gps logger installed, I'll try it out later this week. Thanks.

FYI the settings I use, under performance, for maximum logging.

Location provider: GPS only
Time before logging: 0
Keep GPS on: Yes
Distance Filter: 0
Accuracy Filter: 0
Retry time: 0
Absolute timeout: 0
Don't log if I'm not moving: Off

With this setup you'll get about 1 data point per second.  A 4h 30m trip makes a GPX file about 3.5MB with approx 16000 data points.  And as mentioned, for me it uses about 10% battery per hour, thats with an old battery too, probbly about 4 or 5 years old.

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21 hours ago, HankChinaski said:

Wow. Troglodyte much? I spent all day today dead reckoning and it worked out but the one ride where i had functional gps (thanks to FilterX) made solo navigating an enormous riding area i didn't know much less stressful. Id have used it today but i can't find an Orux map of Oregon. emoji21.png

I have been looking for the Garmin TOPO for Oregon for you :)

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On 8/19/2018 at 8:02 AM, David Tarshis said:

Speaking of paper maps, the last place we went to ride, the box was empty. What's the best source for paper maps for the area we're about to ride before we go? Back in the day, we used to go get topo maps at REI or other hiking/outdoor stores for our 4 wheeling adventures. Some of them tended to be huge and expensive. Wondering if the forest service offers maps I can order online or something to that effect?..

The other gentleman that commented was exactly right, the Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM) is free and strongly recommended as one of your navigation resources.  The key to successful prep and navigation is to have redundant reliable navigation and location aids for backcountry travel.

In Colorado, the Stay The Trail organization publishes the MVUM on their website free to the public.  These maps were exactingly prepared and accurately geo-referenced by Great Outdoors Consultants of Woodland Park, Colorado to be used with the Avenza PDF Maps app (Apple Store, Windows Store, Google Play).  Several other states do this with their MVUM, and they are widely available using the app.  The US Forest Service also provides a good range of them for many Ranger Districts online.  You have to load them into a phone in the correct phone folder for them to function (for which I recommend the PRO version).

It is important to understand the reason for the accuracy and free availability of the MVUM.  The MVUM is a legal document that establishes the only routes that can be used by a motor vehicle.  Travel across any other part of the terrain is forbidden.  You are subject to federal prosecution and behavior that damages the environment is investigated.  There are lots of roads and trails, please use them and don't make new ones - it's not just a good idea - it's the law. 

The MVUM is provided free of charge and at many locations due to grants, sponsorship organizations and business partner participation.  Basically, any legitimate public business with a storefront asks for a few copies to pass out and they distribute the maps free of charge to emphasize and accomplish the ongoing education, enforcement, engineering, and evaluation necessary to maintain and sustain our amazing recreational resources on public lands.

  • When you use the free app, load only the MVUM you are operating in.
  • Remember to download the maps from the Avenza store while you have cellular data or wifi access.  The maps work offline as long as they are loaded onto the device you are using. 
  • To use the professional version, send them money and they let you load as many maps as you have room for, which is a lot in the age of 128GB u-SD cards.  This is the best thing if you make your own maps, or you master downloading free geo-PDF topo maps from the USGS

 

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On 8/17/2018 at 8:42 PM, pat22043 said:

I'm a GPS nut. I usually carry three with me on my dirt bike (KTM 300) in the woods. Well, I have three things that record GPS/GPX, but only use one for navigating. I have a Garmin GeoMap 64ST on my handlebars for navigating. I have a Garmin Virb action camera that records GPX tracks to go along with the video -- I really like the speed, altitude and grade overlays on the video. And I run Locus Maps on my smartphone along with Glympse for my wife. Why three? well the camera's GPS can't be seen until you process it, so it hardly counts. The smartphone is buried away in a safe place, I've broken too many $700 phone screens to put a smartphone out on the handlebar. And the GeoMap is out on the bar where I could read it if it were bigger.

My biggest "wish list" item would be for my buddies to have GPS with some sort of communication. When we ride, we sometimes get split up, maybe the trail is too difficult for some of us to make it up a climb. We then need to find a new place to meet, and a way to communicate that we are going to meet at point X.  Usually, where we ride, there is no cell service....

There is an interesting trade off on screen size. I find it very challenging to read the GeoMap while moving. The screen is just too small for my old eyeballs. But if you get a bigger screen (and lots of vendors sell bigger screens) then you have to find a place to put it. On a dirt bike, you simply don't have much space up near the handlebars. A related issue is battery life. Bigger screens suck more power. A lot of units lose weather protection when you connect an external power source. This makes sense in a nice dry car. Not so much on a motorcycle. The ADV folks have more room, but a dirt bike GPS has to balance a lot of contradictory requirements.

I'd also wish for something less user hostile than Garmin's Basecamp.....

Haha, I have you!  I can tally 7 GPS systems on every mission, but admittedly data-loggers for survey integrity and SPOT devices for safety and maneuvers are perhaps not as exciting as video cameras!  We carry those too, it is awesome when you come across a herd of wild horses, get raced by pronghorns or ride a massive scenic rim or gnarly singletrack.

All instruments are either 12-hour capable on battery or hard-wired to the bike.  All hard wiring is professional and fused, all power and mounts are the best parts we can locate and fit into the limited space on an off-road motorcycle.  Not advertising for them, but RAM mounts are the best and I wear a 1" ball out in 2 seasons, then install new.  We have had great service from rugged 8" Windows 10 tablets, and it lets us work in a native mapping software environment, saving time and money.

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1 minute ago, GreatOutdoors said:

I can tally 7 GPS systems on every mission, but admittedly data-loggers for survey integrity.... Not advertising for them, but RAM mounts are the best and I wear a 1" ball out in 2 seasons, then install new.  We have had great service from rugged 8" Windows 10 tablets, and it lets us work in a native mapping software environment, saving time and money.

I used to run an AMOD 3080 logger, just for redundancy. But with three units, I figure I can retire it. It speaks NEMA, but conversion is trivial.

I love the RAM mount that holds my GeoMap 64. Not cheap, but super reliable and robust.

Do you have any differential GPS units? They are great for identifying exactly where you were when the pronghorn kicks you and your rig over the cliff side. I haven't seen any consumer oriented systems using them.

I can see how the industry could come up with some rugged, even mil-spec windows tablets that could survive. Using something Windows based sure makes it easier to hire programmers. I'm not sure I could fit an 8" tablet on my KTM 300's handle bars. But I'd be tempted to try a smaller size.

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I would like to mention radio communications.  Integrated GPS/Radio units are great, but I do not know of any that are reasonably priced.

We use Midland 5 watt GMRS radios with helmet microphone and speakers.  Cheap and effective.  We do not use VOX, each rider chooses either to take a hand off the bars and key the chest-mounted radio, key a harness mounted PTT switch, or tether to the bike with a quick-disconnect and a handlebar mounted PTT.  I like the handlebar switch, the tether becomes habit and my main message is "Wait One ..."  while I slow to a stop with a "Go ahead ....".  There is no possibility of effective communication with an engine at 4000rpm and wind in your helmet unless you are a jet fighter pilot with a considerably better helmet setup.

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9 minutes ago, pat22043 said:

I used to run an AMOD 3080 logger, just for redundancy. But with three units, I figure I can retire it. It speaks NEMA, but conversion is trivial.

I love the RAM mount that holds my GeoMap 64. Not cheap, but super reliable and robust.

Do you have any differential GPS units? They are great for identifying exactly where you were when the pronghorn kicks you and your rig over the cliff side. I haven't seen any consumer oriented systems using them.

I can see how the industry could come up with some rugged, even mil-spec windows tablets that could survive. Using something Windows based sure makes it easier to hire programmers. I'm not sure I could fit an 8" tablet on my KTM 300's handle bars. But I'd be tempted to try a smaller size.

There is a 1" RAM ball mount that replaces one of the bolts in your handlebar clamps.  I run two of these, so I can mount right, left, or two units.  This saves so much handlebar space it is ridiculous and there is no better way for an enduro-style setup.

We use the Trimble R1 GNSS Receiver and bluetooth it to the tablets.  It uses the advanced SBAS system for differential correction, and you can get stupid accurate for a non-engineering unit with post-processing software.  This not a hobby setup, the receiver is $1500 and software about the same plus.  Just like a gun, accuracy ain't free.

A $70.00 Holux RCV3000 would be an excellent Bluetooth GPS receiver for recreation use.  I have put a thousand miles on one without a single glitch and they have all day battery life and more.

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On 8/20/2018 at 6:01 PM, filterx said:

Thank god we are not dealing with navigating across the Pacific ocean with these :)

978d4829b876d6a2b1143fb669808049.jpg

You would be able to find latitude take a wild plus or minus 100 miles guess at longitude with these instruments, and you could get star fixes which would narrow it down on a clear night, but this collection is far short of blue water navigation.  I won't make anyone guess, what this is missing is a highly accurate clock and the 40 lbs of books you need to interpret the readings (tables, not instructions).  Add those items and I would head into the blue water without hesitation.  PS these are pretty but I will take a plastic sextant and compass anytime over these little ornamental ones made in India.

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Our high-end bluetooth GPS receivers are on the way, but today we will integrate new tablets (Win 10) with a little GPS receiver I want to discuss:  The Holux RCV3000.

I have spent hundreds of hours with one of these in my upper vest pocket wrapped in a ziploc baggie for waterproofing.  I am not talking a cowboy vest, but an Ogio Flight Vest modified with better shoulder suspension, integrated wiring harness, and tool attachments.  When you carry 38 lbs on your back, you learn where all the weak points are and make improvements.

The Holux has worked with superb battery life and decent accuracy during a long hard life.  We linked them to cameras to make geo-referenced photos, but they connect and provide an NMEA string to anything that has bluetooth so they are a great test device for a system without spending $1500.  At around $80, they are a bargain.  Why would you want one?  They operate independently to log data for someone who needs a continuous record of travel, make your phone or tablet into a higher accuracy system, and they are extremely convenient and inexpensive in size and cost.  The secret is that they use the WAAS signal (Wide Area Augmentation System) to improve accuracy.  If you want to believe the spec, WAAS guarantees you 7 meters of accuracy under most conditions.  My experience is you typically get 2-3 meters as long as you aren't in deep canyons or heavy downpour.  This is close enough for recreation and most resource study - see my article entitled "If I Get Within a Quarter Mile of Your Mangy Carcass, I Can Find You By Sense of Smell".

For anyone that wants to mess with using an external GPS receiver to enable or improve a position-enabled device like a tablet or camera, this is the best starter unit there is IMHO.  Easy and fun.

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