Blown motor seal

[EnglertRacing]

18 minutes ago, cadman_ks said:

...or just get more confused.  Oil is nothing more than a he said / she said...

I like to read about testing and ignore she and he

[SteveThe Snakes]

Mobil 1 15/50 by the five quart three pack at Waldomartsworld. Cheapandgood!

[SteveThe Snakes]

[Spud786]

55 minutes ago, StevetheSnake said:

Mobil 1 15/50 by the five quart three pack at Waldomartsworld. Cheapandgood!

Never seen an issue on the motorcycle mobil oils, but the car oils are on the slick side for the clutch, some like them cause the shifting seems slick, but that's because of the effect on the clutch. Ive ran all the mobils at one time or another, in various motorcycle engines.

The worst notchy oil, was Rotella 15w40, Super high frictional oil(notchy shifting), the opposite end, the mobil one car oils, too slick on the clutch for my taste. Both mx bikes and street bikes, the effect was similar on the clutch. Not that they don't work, people have used them for years. I just see the differences from my use.

 

[Spud786]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:13 PM, StevetheSnake said:

I don’t know about the KTM’s but they typically spec to use a feeler gauge to measure side clearence of the lower rod on Yamaha’s. 

Yeah the ktm doesn't seem  to have a specific side to side rod clearance spec, only radial and axial rod movement.

But the cr450f side to side big end clearance, spec limit is .7mm , Im at .4mm

[Horgh]

17 hours ago, cadman_ks said:

...or just get more confused.  Oil is nothing more than a he said / she said...

That's the problem, some people seem to believe that's the case. It's not. Oil is science. But these days science seems to be frowned upon and feelings are all that matters.

I've used Amsoil synthetics in everything I own for over a decade. Never a problem, and I have some high performance engines.

[Cycle_Path]

So seeing this thread and Aaron Steinmann at 98500 k on a rtw trip on his 500 I am pretty safe to say at 4k my 500 isnt even broke in Yet

[SteveThe Snakes]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:54 PM, Spud786 said:

Never seen an issue on the motorcycle mobil oils, but the car oils are on the slick side for the clutch, some like them cause the shifting seems slick, but that's because of the effect on the clutch. Ive ran all the mobils at one time or another, in various motorcycle engines.

The worst notchy oil, was Rotella 15w40, Super high frictional oil(notchy shifting), the opposite end, the mobil one car oils, too slick on the clutch for my taste. Both mx bikes and street bikes, the effect was similar on the clutch. Not that they don't work, people have used them for years. I just see the differences from my use.

 

Hum I run Mobil 1 15/50 in all the dirt bikes never noticed any difference in clutch performance for 20+ years. The only bike I don’t run in in yet is the 16’ bmw r1200 gs but next oil change I think it’s coming. I even ran it in a generation 2 Hayabusa and it worked like a charm. 

One time I was headed down PCH in Malibu and I nailed the throttle and clutched it to wheelie the Hayabusa. The next thing I knew the rear wheel was going 100 and the bike was going 40. Damn Hayabusa’s HP. ?

[allout48]

On 9/8/2018 at 5:25 PM, Spud786 said:

This on my 2015 500

Working my way into the bike the valves all good, this spark plug has 200 hours on an 800 hour motor, it looks pretty good

Im having a total bitch with the allen head bolts, stuck. FK bad ,,  cant break loose with heat or penetrating fluid, Im continuing to try though

 

no sign of oil in the upper cylinder via spark plug

 

impressive that the cylinder and rings are still good are you having head inspected are you replacing cam chain? makes one want to go buy some c12 thanks spud!

[Spud786]

9 hours ago, allout48 said:

impressive that the cylinder and rings are still good are you having head inspected are you replacing cam chain? makes one want to go buy some c12 thanks spud!

Okay progress made, new piston installed , cylinder and head back on, but I have another 1 /2 day of odds and ends before fire up. Took me about 2 and half hours, to get the cam and chain back on head torqued ect.

I mentioned the old compression ring was .35mm end gap , the new ring is .30mm , that's .05mm wear on the compression ring, discounting any manufacture tolerances.  Ktm spec (which is ridiculous) is 1mm or less , they also expect 3/4 ounce oil burn(per hour) as a norm (which is ridiculous). I never had any oil burn, that's a real peeve of mine. So lets hope it went together well,, and I maintain my zero oil burn status.

Cam chain, Ive followed cam chain wear since new , by counting the teeth on the adjuster, Its never moved, so cam chain is still showing no movement as of yet.

Im seriously yearning for a 2 stroke , much easier on this type of work.

I mentioned, I couldn't get the ktm wrist pin tool, in time without being down another week. With piston in the cylinder I installed it on the rod, my wife had to hold the cylinder while I did this, it sucked, but got it in, the tool would have been a lot nicer.

I may be able to fire it up tomorrow night or Saturday morning.

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Spud786

[Spud786]

11 hours ago, StevetheSnake said:

Hum I run Mobil 1 15/50 in all the dirt bikes never noticed any difference in clutch performance for 20+ years. The only bike I don’t run in in yet is the 16’ bmw r1200 gs but next oil change I think it’s coming. I even ran it in a generation 2 Hayabusa and it worked like a charm. 

One time I was headed down PCH in Malibu and I nailed the throttle and clutched it to wheelie the Hayabusa. The next thing I knew the rear wheel was going 100 and the bike was going 40. Damn Hayabusa’s HP. ?

Steve, I have the touch of a Woman , Im very sensitive in the differences of traction levels , and even oil effects on the clutch

That's just my experience of those oils with, too much friction and too little(that doesn't mean they aren't usable), I have a particular clutch feel that I like, and I just note a differences between those mentioned. Ive also ran amsoil mc oils and it meets the expectation on the clutch action, in various motorcycle motors.

But I know there are thousands out there, that run the 15w50 mobil 1, its just not to my liking on the clutch action. Most oils that Ive ran , that I like are in between those two mentioned, on the clutch action, not too much friction, and not too little, in the middle is my liking.

[InRoostWeTrust]

Did that piston fail while pouring the coals it or just tooling along - just curious. Also wonder how many other 500 pistons have been swapped or failed and the history info on each.
Keep-up with the good work and thanks for posts!

[SteveThe Snakes]

I would call a piston with a crack in the dome the lucky save of the year award. Normally the piston grenades and takes out the crank and the head. Sometimes even the lower cases when the rod lets loose from the piston and can take debris down in the case. The bike can end up a total. So if there were 800 hrs on it maybe 600 is safe? Maybe? Not sure if the newer pistons have changed? 

[Spud786]

13 minutes ago, InRoostWeTrust said:

Did that piston fail while pouring the coals it or just tooling along - just curious. Also wonder how many other 500 pistons have been swapped or failed and the history info on each.
Keep-up with the good work and thanks for posts!

No, I wasn't hammering at all, at the time, it was probably a fatigue break that developed, and showed no issue, until the crack broke through the crown,  loosing compression.

also the oem piston has no skirt pads, it just has a dark grey phosphate coating, which I believe is just supposed to aide on an initial dry start.

Im not one of those put it together dry guys, I like an oil film.   I did note my DLC coating on the rocker arms is looking alittle weak(where shims contact), nothing bad, but those probably need replacing  sometime in the near future.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Spud786

[Spud786]

The same piston has been used from 2012 to present as far as I know

They are Mahle forged pistons , evidentially pretty tough , but too light for any serious longevity

Course there's a lot of factors, caring for longevity

Edited September 14, 2018 by Spud786

[InRoostWeTrust]

Would love to see pix of the piston (top & bottom) and your rocker arm tips if you took any. How do the rocker arm shafts look? Any wear you can catch a finger nail on?

[Spud786]

12 minutes ago, StevetheSnake said:

I would call a piston with a crack in the dome the lucky save of the year award. Normally the piston grenades and takes out the crank and the head. Sometimes even the lower cases when the rod lets loose from the piston and can take debris down in the case. The bike can end up a total. So if there were 800 hrs on it maybe 600 is safe? Maybe? Not sure if the newer pistons have changed? 

Yeah, I guess I get that Award, could have been much worse, course I don't have a running bike yet either, so there's still time for something to go wrong .

[Spud786]

5 minutes ago, InRoostWeTrust said:

Would love to see pix of the piston (top & bottom) and your rocker arm tips if you took any. How do the rocker arm shafts look? Any wear you can catch a finger nail on?

I didn't take a picture, those DLC coatings are very thin , when I replace I'll get a picture.

[Repp]

10 hours ago, Spud786 said:

Im seriously yearning for a 2 stroke , much easier on this type of work.

I know right? Doing mine for the first time took muuuuuch longer than I predicted. 

[Spud786]

Another 4 hours and the bike is running, no oil smoke on start up, probably did about 20 minute of breakin time, finish more tomorrow.

Bike starts Good (as normal) and the motor is smooth(no unusual noise), judging the oil, there was some gold sparkles, and shinning a light on my long engine screen, there was a few flakes there too, so this episode, if I did have a perfect lower rod bearing , did not do it any good, longevity wise, even though it seemed to spec out okay. The ktm 500 being double screened, doesn't hurt.

Probably do another oil dump in 3 to 4 hours