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Anyone ridden a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke dirtbike?

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Hello. Am looking to purchase a dirtbike, and cant decide if I want a four stroke, or a two stroke.

 

I plan on purchasing something kind of weak and small, if four stroke I'll look for a 230, if two stroke a 100 or 125. But I've never ridden a four stroke so I don't know if I'd like it.

 

In fact I've only ridden two dirt bikes, both 80cc class bikes. I use to have a 1987 Kawasaki kd80m, an 80cc 2 stroke, and I loved it, and though it was a two stroke, it was also a trail bike so it may have been sort of like a 4 stroke. I never even noticed a substantial power band as its power delivery was very smooth

 

Until I rode my friends 1986 kawasaki kx80, I just assumed I'd get another 2 stroke when I can, thinking motocross bikes are probably similar in nature to my old 80.

 

But then, I rode the kx80 and hated it. The bottom end was almost non existant, 1st and second only existed to get you moving a little and find the power band where you could finally go somewhere.

 

I would just get another old 2 stroke trail bike, but I'm looking to get something from the late 90s or early 2000s, aka after 2 stroke trail bikes had become very rare.

 

So my question is, any one know if a 2 stroke trail bike is more similar to a 4 stroke trail bike, or a 2 stroke motocross bike?

 

Sorry for the messy nature of this post.

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Do not get a 125cc two stroke. Nearly all are pure MX racing bikes with insanely high peak HP and zero torque off the pipe.

Yeah, lots of us have owned both 2 and 4 stroke. There are differences, but its more than just 2T vs 4T. I had a Honda CRF230F and then a KTM 250XCF. They had almost nothing in common. Both of my current bikes are 2T.

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If weak and small is what you are looking for then the 230 is the thing.

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What kind of terrain? How often do you plan to ride? How are your wrenching skills?

230 is a great starting bike but it is super limited once your skill set develops. 

4t vs. 2t?

I own both a 15 Beta 350 4t and a 17 Beta 300 2t. Basically the same frame, ergos, tires and suspension. 

I'm selling the 350 and keeping the 300. Why? After years of riding big 4t's it became obvious that between the curb weight of the 4t's and the engine characteristics of the 4t's, the 300 was just way more fun, faster and cheaper to maintain. 

 

 

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Do not get a 125cc two stroke. Nearly all are pure MX racing bikes with insanely high peak HP and zero torque off the pipe.

Yeah, lots of us have owned both 2 and 4 stroke. There are differences, but its more than just 2T vs 4T. I had a Honda CRF230F and then a KTM 250XCF. They had almost nothing in common. Both of my current bikes are 2T.
But I've only had 2 dirt bikes, when I was 6, a little kawasaki kdx50, 2t. When I was around 9 we sold it, at 11 I got a kd80, another 2t, and I was happy with it, and I'm confident it would still feel peppy, if I hadn't have sold it last year. If an early 2000s 125 2t has less low end torque than a 1987 kd80, I'd be Very very suprised. But maybe it does, that's why I posted this thread. Do you think there is any chance that a 10hp 80cc 1987 2t had more low end torque than a 30hp 125cc 2000 2t?

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2 hours ago, Adric123 said:

 If an early 2000s 125 2t has less low end torque than a 1987 kd80, ... Do you think there is any chance that a 10hp 80cc 1987 2t had more low end torque than a 30hp 125cc 2000 2t?

Literally, probably not. But by feel maybe. Any 30 HP 125cc is going to have power only at the top end of the rev range. Maybe 2000 RPM wide. So you could have power from 7000 to 9000. or even 8K to 10K. At 5000 RPM the thing will barely idle. That 10 HP motor did not have much of a power peak. It was probably 5 HP at 4000 RPM and 10 at 8000. And it would at least accelerate slowly when off the pipe. On a 125cc MX racer, you are on the pipe or you are not going to have any acceleration.

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Literally, probably not. But by feel maybe. Any 30 HP 125cc is going to have power only at the top end of the rev range. Maybe 2000 RPM wide. So you could have power from 7000 to 9000. or even 8K to 10K. At 5000 RPM the thing will barely idle. That 10 HP motor did not have much of a power peak. It was probably 5 HP at 4000 RPM and 10 at 8000. And it would at least accelerate slowly when off the pipe. On a 125cc MX racer, you are on the pipe or you are not going to have any acceleration.
Idk man. You're makeing this sound like itd be worse than the kx80 I mentioned. Maybe it would, but I doubt it. If it was really that comically terrible, why so so many people have 125s and ride them on trails?

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Just now, Adric123 said:
5 minutes ago, pat22043 said:
 

Idk man. You're makeing this sound like itd be worse than the kx80 I mentioned. Maybe it would, but I doubt it. If it was really that comically terrible, why so so many people have 125s and ride them on trails?

cause they are young and light weight/small. And "trails" is a broad term. I ride tight, rocky, root infested, technical trails. Rarely go faster than 25 or so. Bottom end torque is important, top end HP is irrelevant. But if you are young and talented, you can ride anything anywhere.

The late model KTM 150 XCW is a lighter, smaller bike designed for technical trails. They can be fun. But most of my buddies, who are mostly over 50 years old, enjoy riding a KTM 300 XCW a lot more.

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cause they are young and light weight/small. And "trails" is a broad term. I ride tight, rocky, root infested, technical trails. Rarely go faster than 25 or so. Bottom end torque is important, top end HP is irrelevant. But if you are young and talented, you can ride anything anywhere.

The late model KTM 150 XCW is a lighter, smaller bike designed for technical trails. They can be fun. But most of my buddies, who are mostly over 50 years old, enjoy riding a KTM 300 XCW a lot more.
What's young light weight and small? 80 class bikes, or the people rideing them?

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11 minutes ago, Adric123 said:
16 minutes ago, pat22043 said:
 

What's young light weight and small? 80 class bikes, or the people rideing them?

silly rabbit: both bike and rider

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silly rabbit: both bike and rider
Well I'm 14 and 130 lbs, I'd say that's pretty light and small. I'm not particularly talented, do to my low experience, but that can change through rideing. And these young bikes are pretty much unchanged since the early 2000s, especially Yamahas

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Well well well another 2t vs 4t thread let's see how this pans out. OP you have to ask yourself some questions like:

1. How do I like to ride? Fast or slow on the trails?

2. Maintenance important?

3. Weight? Lighter or a heavier?

4. Bottom end torque or a hit a little higher up in the powerband?

5. And most important: Am I dull and boring (4t) or Am I exciting and fun (2t)

For the record I have both.

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Well well well another 2t vs 4t thread let's see how this pans out. OP you have to ask yourself some questions like:
1. How do I like to ride? Fast or slow on the trails?
2. Maintenance important?
3. Weight? Lighter or a heavier?
4. Bottom end torque or a hit a little higher up in the powerband?
5. And most important: Am I dull and boring (4t) or Am I exciting and fun (2t)
For the record I have both.
Speed, medium. Maintenance, I dont particularly care as I have nothing better to do. Weight, light. I like 2 strokes in every way, accept I'm worried about low end tourque, I want a mixture of low end and medium to high range torque and power.

I've never ridden a 4 stroke, and I'm not old enough to get a job so I have very very limited funds. 2ts are much cheaper to buy, but I'm not sure about down the line. That's why I posted this thread, I want other peoples 2 cents

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3 minutes ago, Adric123 said:

Speed, medium. Maintenance, I dont particularly care as I have nothing better to do. Weight, light. I like 2 strokes in every way, accept I'm worried about low end tourque, I want a mixture of low end and medium to high range torque and power.

I've never ridden a 4 stroke, and I'm not old enough to get a job so I have very very limited funds. 2ts are much cheaper to buy, but I'm not sure about down the line. That's why I posted this thread, I want other peoples 2 cents

Well you're a perfect candidate for a 2t. Maintaining a 2t is simpler and cheaper. Low end torque you say? That's what the clutch is for. Learn how to use it. 2t's are lighter and easier to move around. Also 2t has less back torque, which I find easier to deal with on the trail.

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47 minutes ago, pat22043 said:

On a 125cc MX racer, you are on the pipe or you are not going to have any acceleration.

They're not that bad, it just seems that way if you just got off of a big bore.

You can tool around on a modern 125 all day and never rev it high enough for the power valve to open.  Peak power is still way up top but the low-mid has filled in very much since the 80's and 90's.  The YZ125 has a very flat torque curve, just skewed upward towards peak power where it rolls over quickly.

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You’re too young and inexperienced to know what you want, so just pick a bike and ride.   Most of the bikes from the era you are considering have finished depreciating so most can be bought, ridden for a year or two, then sold for what you paid.  So don’t over think it.  I would be much more focused on the individual deal....overall condition and price vs the year/make/model.  Just get in the seat time so that you can gain insight as what type of rider you are and what your needs and preferences are.  Then you will be better equiped to make this decision in the future.  A 125 will teach you amazing clutch and throttle control.  Ride it for a year or two.  Become proficient with it and you will be AMAZED at how much faster and efficient a rider you are when you step onto a different bike in the future....say a 250f for example.

 

At this point the bike itself is not the most important factor in the equation, but rather you are....the rider.  Regardless of which bike you buy at this point you have huge room for improvement and those steps in improving through seat time are what’s going to give you the edge....NOT the choice of motorcycle.

 

My only suggestion in regards to bike choice is do not succumb to inadequate weiner syndrome as many new riders do and run out and buy the most powerful bike possible as this will not only inhibit your learning but may give you some negative experiences.  Negative association with bikes is not a mental place you want to be in when learning and developing.

 

Pick a good deal and get out and have fun.

Edited by Fatt_Tones
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You’re too young and inexperienced to know what you want, so just pick a bike and ride.   Most of the bikes from the era you are considering have finished depreciating so most can be bought, ridden for a year or two, then sold for what you paid.  So don’t over think it.  I would be much more focused on the individual deal....overall condition and price vs the year/make/model.  Just get in the seat time so that you can gain insight as what type of rider you are and what your needs and preferences are.  Then you will be better equiped to make this decision in the future.  A 125 will teach you amazing clutch and throttle control.  Ride it for a year or two.  Become proficient with it and you will be AMAZED at how much faster and efficient a rider you are when you step onto a different bike in the future....say a 250f for example.
 
At this point the bike itself is not the most important factor in the equation, but rather you are....the rider.  Regardless of which bike you buy at this point you have huge room for improvement and those steps in improving through seat time are what’s going to give you the edge....NOT the choice of motorcycle.
 
My only suggestion in regards to bike choice is do not succumb to inadequate weiner syndrome as many new riders do and run out and buy the most powerful bike possible as this will not only inhibit your learning but may give you some negative experiences.  Negative association with bikes is not a mental place you want to be in when learning and developing.
 
Pick a good deal and get out and have fun.
Yeah inexperienced riders skipping straight to 450 4ts and 250 2ts always bothers me. Just trying to avoid getting something I'll hate

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3 minutes ago, Adric123 said:

Speed, medium. Maintenance, I dont particularly care as I have nothing better to do. Weight, light. I like 2 strokes in every way, accept I'm worried about low end tourque, I want a mixture of low end and medium to high range torque and power.

I've never ridden a 4 stroke, and I'm not old enough to get a job so I have very very limited funds. 2ts are much cheaper to buy, but I'm not sure about down the line. That's why I posted this thread, I want other peoples 2 cents

You answered your own question in my opinion, 2 stroke covers most of needs, if you can swing the $ for the ktm 300 2 st you're covered all around, I have a '15 WR450 thats a blast in single track woodsie clay packed trails for summer riding here in the san fransisco bay area, (Hollister Hills) come winter time (50° and rain) the 3000 acres of clay trails are closed most of the time whats left is the powder sand stone fire road type trails carving through the hills that are a little do deep dry in the summer but add water and its close to riding on the wet send along a beach, thats where my '00 CR250 shines, im 150 lbs, on the wrong side of 50, comes a lot quicker than you think, and the 4 stroke is fun, but its heavier and more work to ride fast, yes a 4 stroke has that snap, but i can go anywhere faster and easier than my 4 st riding buddies with my 2 st, ive had my 250 for 6 years and love it. Easier and cheaper to maintain than the 4 st. The 250 got its 1st crankshaft replacement at 15 y.o  along with the cylinder cleaned up and replated and the rest of a top end job. Did the work myself and spent $800 ish on parts. Good for another 10 if can I last that long!

I pressure washed and wiped the bike after a riding weekend.

Always had 2 air cleaner, one clean and oiled in zip lock bag in the garage changed the air filter after every ride weekend

I always used the same brand of high quality synthetic 2 st oil, jetted the bike to run at 50:1 (less oil=more fuel=rich mixture) i dont want to give a free plug but i only used rockoil synthetic blend and 6 years at 50 to 1 never had a problem and never had an oily messy silencer either.

Then oil up the chain and park it in the garage until next ride. Maybe an hour of work, including throwing my riding gear in the wash while taking care of the bike. 

Air filter cleaning and consistant use of a high quality pre mix are  2 key things to a happy long lived 2 st and invest  $100 ish in a pressure washer, even a cheap one is better than a garden hose.

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14 minutes ago, Adric123 said:
28 minutes ago, Fatt_Tones said:
You’re too young and inexperienced to know what you want, so just pick a bike and ride.   Most of the bikes from the era you are considering have finished depreciating so most can be bought, ridden for a year or two, then sold for what you paid.  So don’t over think it.  I would be much more focused on the individual deal....overall condition and price vs the year/make/model.  Just get in the seat time so that you can gain insight as what type of rider you are and what your needs and preferences are.  Then you will be better equiped to make this decision in the future.  A 125 will teach you amazing clutch and throttle control.  Ride it for a year or two.  Become proficient with it and you will be AMAZED at how much faster and efficient a rider you are when you step onto a different bike in the future....say a 250f for example.
 
At this point the bike itself is not the most important factor in the equation, but rather you are....the rider.  Regardless of which bike you buy at this point you have huge room for improvement and those steps in improving through seat time are what’s going to give you the edge....NOT the choice of motorcycle.
 
My only suggestion in regards to bike choice is do not succumb to inadequate weiner syndrome as many new riders do and run out and buy the most powerful bike possible as this will not only inhibit your learning but may give you some negative experiences.  Negative association with bikes is not a mental place you want to be in when learning and developing.
 
Pick a good deal and get out and have fun.

Read more  

Yeah inexperienced riders skipping straight to 450 4ts and 250 2ts always bothers me. Just trying to avoid getting something I'll hate

 

I don’t think there’s a bike out there you’ll hate (well maybe a 230...lol).  A new bike purchase is always exciting and you’ll likely develop a crush on whatever you buy.  If you don’t like it, sell it for what you paid and try something else.

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You answered your own question in my opinion, 2 stroke covers most of needs, if you can swing the $ for the ktm 300 2 st you're covered all around, I have a '15 WR450 thats a blast in single track woodsie clay packed trails for summer riding here in the san fransisco bay area, (Hollister Hills) come winter time (50° and rain) the 3000 acres of clay trails are closed most of the time whats left is the powder sand stone fire road type trails carving through the hills that are a little do deep dry in the summer but add water and its close to riding on the wet send along a beach, thats where my '00 CR250 shines, im 150 lbs, on the wrong side of 50, comes a lot quicker than you think, and the 4 stroke is fun, but its heavier and more work to ride fast, yes a 4 stroke has that snap, but i can go anywhere faster and easier than my 4 st riding buddies with my 2 st, ive had my 250 for 6 years and love it. Easier and cheaper to maintain than the 4 st. The 250 got its 1st crankshaft replacement at 15 y.o  along with the cylinder cleaned up and replated and the rest of a top end job. Did the work myself and spent $800 ish on parts. Good for another 10 if can I last that long!
I pressure washed and wiped the bike after a riding weekend.
Always had 2 air cleaner, one clean and oiled in zip lock bag in the garage changed the air filter after every ride weekend
I always used the same brand of high quality synthetic 2 st oil, jetted the bike to run at 50:1 (less oil=more fuel=rich mixture) i dont want to give a free plug but i only used rockoil synthetic blend and 6 years at 50 to 1 never had a problem and never had an oily messy silencer either.
Then oil up the chain and park it in the garage until next ride. Maybe an hour of work, including throwing my riding gear in the wash while taking care of the bike. 
Air filter cleaning and consistant use of a high quality pre mix are  2 key things to a happy long lived 2 st and invest  $100 ish in a pressure washer, even a cheap one is better than a garden hose.
Yeah, just a little worried about the low end power of the little bikes I'm looking at. I'm inexperienced, I dont want to go bigger than a 125, i may even get an 85. Thanks for the reply

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