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Survivor

Boano front forks for X Trainer

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Is the Boano complete front fork still available for the 2016 X Trainer. Would it take away the plushness or not at all. Is it worth buying it as for improvement overall. I do not care about the cost if it makes my X Trainer a better bike to ride. Are the triple included and do you need a shop to install it. I find the bike being deflected in loose rocky sections but it could be my fault not riding it properly. I am around 153 pnds reel weight and 180 pnds ready to ride weight. Riding technical trails 90% of the time with roots, rocks etc... Thanks a lot for your help.

 

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7 minutes ago, Survivor said:

Is the Boano complete front fork still available for the 2016 X Trainer. Would it take away the plushness or not at all. Is it worth buying it as for improvement overall. I do not care about the cost if it makes my X Trainer a better bike to ride. Are the triple included and do you need a shop to install it. I find the bike being deflected in loose rocky sections but it could be my fault not riding it properly. I am around 153 pnds reel weight and 180 pnds ready to ride weight. Riding technical trails 90% of the time with roots, rocks etc... Thanks a lot for your help.

 

Yes it is and comes with everything. A press is needed to press the stem into lower clamp otherwise basic skills are fine. You will most likely need a revalve and then you can have it plush while staing in control with speed. We went the KYB/Fox route and it's a really fun bike to ride in any terrain at any speed. 

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Boano has built several complete fork kits for the Xtrainer. All kits used quality surplus new forks originally intended for other bikes that were shortened to Xtrainer dimensions and paired with Boano triple clamps, brake hanger adapter, and axle spacers.  As mentioned above installation requires pressing an Xtrainer steering stem into the lower triple clamp. You can either use the original stem from the stock Xtrainer triples or procure a new stem and save the original setup for re-installation for later resale of the bike.

The different Boano Xtrainer fork kits are:

  1. Marzocchi 45mm OC forks, offered in limited quantities over winter of 2015/2016 until they ran out of the forks.
  2. Marzocchi 48mm CC PFP forks, offered in limited quantities over winter of 2016/2017 until they ran out of the surplus forks from Gas Gas 4T bikes.  (I bought this kit directly from Boano in November 2017 for $1200 and love it.)
  3. Sachs 48mm CC forks.  This kit is still available from Boano for 1190 euro (roughly $1800 CAD).  Boano will sell and ship directly to customers, except for in the USA where they sell exclusively through Beta USA and it's dealer network.  Specifications and installation instructions are here.

I was miserable for much of my first season on my 2016 Xtrainer with the stock forks.  I wouldn't still own it today if the stock suspension was the only option available.  But with good forks and shock it's a mountain goat and puts a smile on my face every time I ride it.  I've got over 200 hours of technical Idaho mountain single-track on mine, including almost 1000 trail miles so far this year.

Terms like "plush" and "harsh" are highly subjective, just like rider preferences and style etc.  Personally I expect to tune and valve almost any suspension for my personal tastes, including new quality components like this.  But the good news is that 1) this is a far better starting point with much better performance, and 2) this solution is easily to re-valve or otherwise fine tune by suspension gurus or pros etc.

Here are a couple of examples of some of the fun that I've enjoyed with mine.  The first video is high elevation technical riding.  The second is me just messing around in faster open high desert with rocks and whoops at higher speeds (apologies in advance for the corny intro music.)

 

 

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9 minutes ago, weantright said:

Steering stem comes with the kit.

Thanks, I missed that when looking at the Boano listing for the Sachs fork kit.  The first two Marzocchi kits, including mine, didn't come with one.  Does the kit also come with a lower steering stem bearing?  Mine was pressed on to my factory steering stem and couldn't be removed/replaced without damaging it.  It wan't expensive, but held my installation up until I sourced another bearing.

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48 minutes ago, wwguy said:

 

Boano has built several complete fork kits for the Xtrainer. All kits used quality surplus new forks originally intended for other bikes that were shortened to Xtrainer dimensions and paired with Boano triple clamps, brake hanger adapter, and axle spacers.  As mentioned above installation requires pressing an Xtrainer steering stem into the lower triple clamp. You can either use the original stem from the stock Xtrainer triples or procure a new stem and save the original setup for re-installation for later resale of the bike.

The different Boano Xtrainer fork kits are:

  1. Marzocchi 45mm OC forks, offered in limited quantities over winter of 2015/2016 until they ran out of the forks.
  2. Marzocchi 48mm CC PFP forks, offered in limited quantities over winter of 2016/2017 until they ran out of the surplus forks from Gas Gas 4T bikes.  (I bought this kit directly from Boano in November 2017 for $1200 and love it.)
  3. Sachs 48mm CC forks.  This kit is still available from Boano for 1190 euro (roughly $1800 CAD).  Boano will sell and ship directly to customers, except for in the USA where they sell exclusively through Beta USA and it's dealer network.  Specifications and installation instructions are here.

I was miserable for much of my first season on my 2016 Xtrainer with the stock forks.  I wouldn't still own it today if the stock suspension was the only option available.  But with good forks and shock it's a mountain goat and puts a smile on my face every time I ride it.  I've got over 200 hours of technical Idaho mountain single-track on mine, including almost 1000 trail miles so far this year.

Terms like "plush" and "harsh" are highly subjective, just like rider preferences and style etc.  Personally I expect to tune and valve almost any suspension for my personal tastes, including new quality components like this.  But the good news is that 1) this is a far better starting point with much better performance, and 2) this solution is easily to re-valve or otherwise fine tune by suspension gurus or pros etc.

Here are a couple of examples of some of the fun that I've enjoyed with mine.  The first video is high elevation technical riding.  The second is me just messing around in faster open high desert with rocks and whoops at higher speeds (apologies in advance for the corny intro music.)

 

 

You’re he fastest guy I’ve seen on an xtrainer yet

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Thank you very much for your replies. Really appreciate it and I will definitely get the forks this winter. I already have the Fox rear schock so it should make it as perfect as possible for my 2016 X Trainer. I am in Canada (beside Ottawa city) and I am debating who would be best to install and revalve the schock and forks. Langs Off Road in Toronto suburbs has a very good reputation and so is Steve Beane (Two Wheel Performance) and Stillwell Performance. Who do you recommend and it might be someone else. Not being good in mechanic makes it so important to have your opinion. Thanks again

 

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11 minutes ago, MixinGasKickinAss said:

You’re the fastest guy I’ve seen on an xtrainer yet

Ha ha!  Only when there's room to roam off the trail, like in that desert terrain!

In the tight stuff, like the narrow river trail in the video below, I'm a first and second gear only rider. Sometimes I feel like I can't go slow enough.

 

3 minutes ago, Survivor said:

Thank you very much for your replies. Really appreciate it and I will definitely get the forks this winter. I already have the Fox rear schock so it should make it as perfect as possible for my 2016 X Trainer. I am in Canada (beside Ottawa city) and I am debating who would be best to install and revalve the schock and forks. Langs Off Road in Toronto suburbs has a very good reputation and so is Steve Beane (Two Wheel Performance) and Stillwell Performance. Who do you recommend and it might be someone else. Not being good in mechanic makes it so important to have your opinion. Thanks again

Both Stillwell and After Hours Cycle (Steve's shop) have great reputations. Personally I'd probably go with Steve though.  This due to his specific knowledge and expertise with Beta bikes, as well as his active knowledgeable participation in the Beta forums.  That said, I haven't personally used either.  I've got a couple of local guys that are great suspension pros, even though they don't have much Beta-specific experience.  Just my two cents (or 3 cents Canadian)...

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Take a look at All Moto Performance and talk to Aaron. He did a really good job on re-valving my stock XT fork (and lowering it for me). If I could get a leg over a stock height XT trainer , I would have the entire 10.6 inches of travel, but the 8.6 inch travel I currently have is MUCH improved over the stock damping. I ride much quicker through rough terrain. It is NOT an Enduro fork by an stretch of the imagination, but I at least feel safe on it and it does not deflect badly like the stock damping.

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3 hours ago, wwguy said:

Ha ha!  Only when there's room to roam off the trail, like in that desert terrain!

In the tight stuff, like the narrow river trail in the video below, I'm a first and second gear only rider. Sometimes I feel like I can't go slow enough.

 

Both Stillwell and After Hours Cycle (Steve's shop) have great reputations. Personally I'd probably go with Steve though.  This due to his specific knowledge and expertise with Beta bikes, as well as his active knowledgeable participation in the Beta forums.  That said, I haven't personally used either.  I've got a couple of local guys that are great suspension pros, even though they don't have much Beta-specific experience.  Just my two cents (or 3 cents Canadian)...

This is a breath taking  ride :applause:but it could easily become a deadly one :excuseme: if you loose your balance or fall on the wrong side. You sure need "Confidence and Rider's Ability " :banana: to ride this trail! :p

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20 minutes ago, Survivor said:

This is a breath taking  ride :applause:but it could easily become a deadly one :excuseme: if you loose your balance or fall on the wrong side. You sure need "Confidence and Rider's Ability " :banana: to ride this trail! :p

LOL, I was going to use "Survivor" for my forum username, but it was already taken!  (Just kidding.) FWIW the "WW" in "WWGuy" does stand for "whitewater", which represents my other hobby.  I'm no stranger to getting tossed into the drink, although the drop to the water does look painful.

That trail is about 7 miles of slow careful riding down river while subconsciously leaning left into the mountain side to avoid the potential drop off of the trail.  Seven miles doesn't sound like far, but it's 1.5 to 2 hours on that trail.  The hardest part though is turning around at the dead-end and riding back the other way.  That's when you realize that you need to re-learn to lean right instead of left!

Edited by wwguy
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10 hours ago, weantright said:

Dropped it 2”, do you high center on grass??

Ha! Right?  There are two spots on my local trail where I could case it, but momentum takes me over those ledges without hitting. It is funny though that all trail enduro motorcycles had about 7 or 8 inches of travel in the 70's, and no one complained, just rode them.

 The only real downside is that it would be unwise for me to jump off something from a high spot because I would bottom the suspension easily with a hard landing. I have been contemplating putting an inch back, but maybe next year. I'm still very new to riding and slowly getting more saddle time and comfort level. Short inseams are dangerous when riding a giraffe that won't stay upright on it's own in rocky uneven terrain that requires stopping.

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Is the Boano complete front fork still available for the 2016 X Trainer. Would it take away the plushness or not at all. Is it worth buying it as for improvement overall. I do not care about the cost if it makes my X Trainer a better bike to ride. Are the triple included and do you need a shop to install it. I find the bike being deflected in loose rocky sections but it could be my fault not riding it properly. I am around 153 pnds reel weight and 180 pnds ready to ride weight. Riding technical trails 90% of the time with roots, rocks etc... Thanks a lot for your help.
 
No doubt the kit is better but you should try 15 weight fork oil for the time being. It will slow the rebound down and increase bottoming resistance. Basically it will make it feel like dirt bike suspension as oppose to trial suspension.
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15 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

No doubt the kit is better but you should try 15 weight fork oil for the time being. It will slow the rebound down and increase bottoming resistance. Basically it will make it feel like dirt bike suspension as oppose to trial suspension.

Unfortunately this also slows down compression too. (Been there, done that.)

It's obvious to me why  heavier viscosity oil slows down suspension travel, but I'm curious why you felt that the heavier oil also increased bottoming resistance? Springs are compressible, which makes them primarily weight sensitive and not speed sensitive.  Conversely oil viscosity and valving are primarily speed sensitive and not weight sensitive, because suspension fluid (unlike air or springs) is not compressible.  It seems to me that an increase, or decrease, in resistance at any specific point in travel would likely reflect a change in load weight or spring resistance, rather than valving or oil viscosity. I.e. the latter characteristics don't vary during full suspension stroke.

Not trying to start an internet argument.  Just trying to understand your comments in context to what I (think I) know about suspension physics and operation.

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Unfortunately this also slows down compression too. (Been there, done that.) 

It's obvious to me why  heavier viscosity oil slows down suspension travel, but I'm curious why you felt that the heavier oil also increased bottoming resistance? Springs are compressible, which makes them primarily weight sensitive and not speed sensitive.  Conversely oil viscosity and valving are primarily speed sensitive and not weight sensitive, because suspension fluid (unlike air or springs) is not compressible.  It seems to me that an increase, or decrease, in resistance at any specific point in travel would likely reflect a change in load weight or spring resistance, rather than valving or oil viscosity. I.e. the latter characteristics don't vary during full suspension stroke.

 

Not trying to start an internet argument.  Just trying to understand your comments in context to what I (think I) know about suspension physics and operation.

 

 

Thicker oil increases compression damping which hydraulically fights bottoming as the oil cannot pass through the valve as quickly. If you look beyond TT it's a commonly recommended change, I didn't invent it. To your point though I did increase the oil level a bit (575cc I think?) which also resists bottoming due to the "air spring" effect.

 

 

Out of theory to the real world, I weight 210 without gear and the only changes to the forks are 15 weight oil and the K9 kit. I still have the stock fork spring but the rear is 6.0. I spent half the day riding single track and playing on ledges and logs that trials riders set up. The other half was at a private MX track jumping a few peaky 50' doubles. It was the 1st time I took the XT off any respectable jumps and it did extremely well. I was pretty surprised. As you can imagine my heart was pounding because I didn't know what to expect on the landing the 1st time. Even after going to flats a few times it did not bottom harshly.

 

 

 

 

Having changed the oil before the K9 kit and can say that the oil made 95% of the difference in the forks. I'm not saying they are better or as plush as the other available options but it without a doubt improves their versatility compared to stock.

 

 

 

 

I should disclose that I've been riding 26 yrs on MX bikes that pulled double duty. 1 weekend at the track, the next in the woods. I don't have the experience on dedicated hardcore enduros to benchmark the XT's suspension but to me it is completely ridable with just a few tweaks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ohiodrz400sm said:

but to me it is completely ridable with just a few tweaks.

 

 

 

 

I agree completely.  At my weight (155 lbs), it was pretty good just changing the oil viscosity and height,  the K9 I put in made it more tune-able.  They work just as well, maybe even better than the stock 4CS forks that came on my '16 Husky TE250.   I have no complaints with their use for any kind of trail riding.  PS I never had an issue with deflection...only washing out in turns due to the stock front tire which was immediately fixed.

Edited by kawagumby
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On 9/14/2018 at 11:27 AM, weantright said:

 We went the KYB/Fox route and it's a really fun bike to ride in any terrain at any speed. 

Any reason that Showa forks could not be used?

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On 10/6/2018 at 11:12 AM, Bermudacat said:

Any reason that Showa forks could not be used?

As long as the diameters fit the clamps, offsets and bottom clamps dimensions are the same it should work. More effort to get spacers and brake caliper might be in order. 

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