E-start issue(s) on my 2017 500 RR-S

[Ben500RR-S]

Yup, I had my truck, running, hooked up and was trying to get the starter to turn and I know that the truck puts out mega-amps when running.  If everything needs to be replaced I'll have to bite it and do it and learn my lesson, I really should know better.  

 

I agree, the no kickstart is a mystery as it was kickstarting even though the e-starter was not working but then it stopped after I put all the amps to it.  

 

Hopefully I'll get the bike back and it will start with the e-starter and when I put my leg to it it will start that way too and I can put all of this behind me.  

[cj_wai]

I hope it is as cheap as possible .  I sure hope to get back on my bike next year. this year was a loss for me.

[Ben500RR-S]

Here it is, fifteen (15) shop days since I had dropped off my bike and I had called the shop today and Harley-lew-yaaa, they said that the part that I needed has come in and that the bike will be going in to have it installed either sometime today or tomorrow at the latest.  Whatever the "part" is, it sure took a while to get.  

Either way, the bike has been in the shop for three full weeks but I'm glad that I might get it back sometime next week as it has been since 09/11/2018 since it would not longer start.  As long as I get it back and it starts in the e-starter and can also be kicked-I almost don't care if it can't be kicked, I'll be so happy.  

 

It is so strange, how the spot where the bike always sits has been empty every day and I miss the bike being there.  We're not supposed to love objects because the can't love us back but the people who made that saying up do not ride dirtbikes.  (they suck)  Like Red had missed Andy in Shawshank Redemption, "I miss my bike."  

Winter is coming and it will be snowbike season before I know it.  

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ben500RR-S

[MarantzManiac]

Dealer had my bike for 6 weeks troubleshooting electrical gremlins. Service manager was hesitant on my wiring harness suggestion swapping lots of parts before Beta factory said yeah do that and change both. They did the diodes as well and she's charging like she should now.

I'm getting ready to trade her in for the new CRF450L.. uh no thanks and I like hondas... watched video of some poor guy who forgot hondas don't come factory with Rekluse, crash into starting line àt exclusive invitation only dealer demo ride ... kinda funny but ouch how embarrassing. Aside from that drama looks like a big red pig showed up really late to the dance.

Instead gonna kiss and massage her start button tonight before bed.... thanks for the heads up Ben!

Edited October 13, 2018 by MarantzManiac

[Ben500RR-S]

On 10/13/2018 at 5:45 AM, MarantzManiac said:

Dealer had my bike for 6 weeks troubleshooting electrical gremlins. Service manager was hesitant on my wiring harness suggestion swapping lots of parts before Beta factory said yeah do that and change both. They did the diodes as well and she's charging like she should now.

I'm getting ready to trade her in for the new CRF450L.. uh no thanks and I like hondas... watched video of some poor guy who forgot hondas don't come factory with Rekluse, crash into starting line àt exclusive invitation only dealer demo ride ... kinda funny but ouch how embarrassing. Aside from that drama looks like a big red pig showed up really late to the dance.

Instead gonna kiss and massage her start button tonight before bed.... thanks for the heads up Ben!

I remember that fiasco but man, 6 weeks?  Makes my 3 weeks look like the 12 items or less checkout line but then again, while I had expected a call yesterday and no one called, I knew it was the shop.  All that parts swapping until they had found that it was the harness.  At least it is fixed for now.  

I've been going back and forth and was all set on buying a new Alta EXR as the credit unions want to throw money at me so I can buy one and I also initially thought of getting a CRF450L as a new Triple Sport bike as the snowbike kits would slot right in. I was willing to jettison the RR-S and its wiring/no-start issues and go Honda.  I was willing to get less than 1/2 for my 2017 as NADA has a trade at from $4,500-$5,500 or right around in that range IIRC.  

I had seen the video of that guy who simply twisted the throttle too much and his excuse-story video.  Truly embarrassing.  

Here is to hoping that I get a call either Monday or Tuesday so I can finally get my bike back.  

[Beta300REcat]

Any time your battery is low and your relay starts clicking, STOP!

Takes so many watts to get the job done. If voltage is down, current (amps) must go UP to get the same wattage. High current gets things hot and can melt them. Think arc welding; low voltage but very high amperage.

Jumping a bike off a truck battery is perfectly fine provided your starting circuit is fine. The battery doesn't 'force' power into the system, the system 'draws' current from the battery. Problems start when the power source cannot handle the demand of the device or appliance.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Bermudacat

[Ben500RR-S]

Thanks for that clarification, it is good to know and very helpful.  

When I did not get a call on Saturday, I knew it was the shop.  

I'll be expecting a call sometime today to tell me that the bike is good to go or at the latest, tomorrow.   If I don't get a call by tomorrow I'll suspect something else is up.  

 

Just for me/us to know but isn't the starter path just the starter button, to the harness, to the starter relay and then the starter?  The starter relay then has leads that go to the battery? and that is about it?  

[Beta300REcat]

6 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

Thanks for that clarification, it is good to know and very helpful.  

When I did not get a call on Saturday, I knew it was the shop.  

I'll be expecting a call sometime today to tell me that the bike is good to go or at the latest, tomorrow.   If I don't get a call by tomorrow I'll suspect something else is up.  

 

Just for me/us to know but isn't the starter path just the starter button, to the harness, to the starter relay and then the starter?  The starter relay then has leads that go to the battery? and that is about it?  

The starter button actuates the relay, the relay carries the heavy current to the starter. Without the relay, you would need a really big switch and heavy wires up there on the handlebars.

[Ben500RR-S]

Finally, my bike is back and the way it was prior to the entire no start/starter problem.  Here is the rundown:

 

Starter motor was bench tested.  It has an internal electrical short.  It is "Non-operational"  I got the starter motor back and I'm going to take the 2 bolts holding the thing together and see what is going on inside of it.  I have no idea about starters and brushes and all that but I am wondering if I can rebuild it with the $40 kit that Beta sells.  Starter motor has been replaced and costs $263.90 from the Beta Parts website. 

 

The bike had a P0231 code-low voltage to fuel pump.  Corrosion was found on the fuel pump relay connection, it was cleaned and di-electric greased.  The bike is now starting on the button-no problem and I even got the bike to kickstart.  

 

Between the starter getting shorted and the fuel pump voltage, both of them got me but I'm back and so glad to be back as I had not been able to ride the bike for the past 5 weeks.  

Edited October 16, 2018 by Ben500RR-S

[randysoo]

Good news!

Congrats. So the fuel pump corrosion was stopping the kickstart efforts

[Ben500RR-S]

Yes, sort of a very odd coincidence that they happened at the same time to confound my (somewhat lame) troubleshooting.  

Here is what I have thought about when it comes to the starter.  The bike was bought 02/22/2017.  

It has just under 3,200 miles and 172 hours.  It has been a fantastic bike.  

I'll admit that there have been 2 or 3 times-and maybe more- where I had pressed the starter button when the bike was running, thinking that it was the kill button.  I have no idea what this does to the starter but it probably is not good. At least the sound is not quite like that in an automobile where there is that loud grind.  

This past winter, when it was from -10 to 15 F, I would try, and try, and try some more to try and get the bike started until I had realized that when it is that cold, it takes the Weego JS12 jump pack to get the bike started as once I put the boost pack on  the battery, the bike fires right up but back when I had no clue, I would tax the starter over and over and over again to try and get the bike going on the bike's small battery.  

I think it must be the combination of these two things, me, or maybe someone else, who would accidentally/mistakenly press the start button when the bike is already running, and all the times I'd run the starter trying to get the bike to start in the extreme cold that I think must have ended up killing the starter after only 3,200 miles and 172 hours.  

Knowing what I know now, I will probably not need another starter for quite some time as I know that when it is under 20 degrees Farrenheit, to just put the jump pack on the battery so the bike just starts on the first try than trying and trying and trying and taxing the entire system and, I will make double sure that if I ever need to kill the bike in an emergency/fast, to press the RED button and not the black one.  Doh!  

 

The corrosion on the fuel pump relay connection-where is this anyway, under the tank?  Odd as the fuel pump was constantly priming after every kick start attempt but who knows what electrical craziness the intermittent connection was causing.  I'm just glad that the bike didn't need any other (expensive) parts.  I'm happy as can be, again.  

Edited October 16, 2018 by Ben500RR-S

[Twitch909]

Glad to hear the issue(s) are resolved mate!

[Ben500RR-S]

Thank you.  While an absolute FWP(First World Problem), not having one's beloved bike for 5 weeks is/has been tough (really rough life). 

In the meantime I have/had contemplated trading the bike in for a CRF450L-gasp!, that could also be used, like the RR-S, as a snowbike.  I just have the Beta set up exactly how I like it and have thoroughly bonded with the bike, but I had thought about it. 

I had then run the idea by my BIL who told me to get the Alta Redshift EXR.  I had the loan all set up at 3.25% for either 3-5 years, down payment of 30%, bike was/is 70 miles south or, if I(had) waited 7-10 days, one could be shipped to a dealer 40 miles north.  I want an EXR badly but at the same time I don't want or need two dual sport bikes right now.  I will, though, have an E-dualsport sometime.  

All I can hope for now is that nothing else goes on where the bike will have to be at the shop for 3 full weeks although I know that someday a rebuild will be necessary as for now, with 3,200 miles and 172 hours, the valves have never been checked and I hope that when either I, or (gasp), the shop does them for me, it won't take more than a few days and I will next time find out what kind of timeline the work might take and call the two other shops that are the closest as there is one that is 70 miles away, to see which one can do the work the quickest.  

 

[randysoo]

So it appears that there is some FI specific maintenance to perform. Fuel pump connection and I just read a thread about corroded FI injector leads

[Ben500RR-S]

I had just seen that thead on the Beta Riders Forum about how the guys bike was stalling and he had found the corrosion in the FI connection.  

Boy, if there is a weak spot/area with these bikes . . . 

I'm going to take the time, soon, and go and clean/stuff the connections full of dielectric grease.  

[firffighter]

Heads up Ben, Alta having some issues.

https://racerxonline.com/2018/10/18/alta-motors-halts-operations

[Ben500RR-S]

I'm glad that last week I decided to NOT get the EXR and to just wait as I didn't want two dual sport bikes right now.  I made the right decision-for once.  I now utterly LOVE my RR-S. 

[Ben500RR-S]

Spent the day on the trails, riding with a Can Am 850.  The bike started and ran flawlessly all day long.  I am back in business and LOVING it.  

I'm so glad that the past three weeks are in the rear view camera.  

[shrubitup]

2 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

Spent the day on the trails, riding with a Can Am 850.  The bike started and ran flawlessly all day long.  I am back in business and LOVING it.  

I'm so glad that the past three weeks are in the rear view camera.  

Patience paid off. Usually does. 

[ocreptileguy]

Had this happen to me on my 17 500rrs. Check for broken solder in the Start switch