Pulled the trigger.

[jeffrow68]

I have been collecting XR400 fork conversion parts and decided to pull the trigger also. I found some pretty interesting things I would like to share. For my project I am removing a set of 150R forks to test the XR400 forks that BTR has been raving about. I like the 150R forks, very light weight, but could not resolve the issue with the tire hitting the frame down tube. Not a bad hit, but enough that it keeps me concerned.  Not crazy about adding weight back with the XR forks, but we will see.  I thought I had purchased 98 XR forks, but actually got the 96 model. Note that anyone that has the 98 and up forks, you can use the 96 Springs since they are 1” shorter, just add a 1” pvc spacer and lowered 1”.   I cut mine 1.25” as BTR suggested, I’m just not a fan of spring cutting.  I removed shims from the base valve for a total of 0.24mm and added two to the mid valve stack. I used 3 wt shock fluid 4” from the top. Also new bushings and seals.

I bought an 89 RM125 front wheel, spent a lot of time cleaning and straightening it, even put new bearings in. Unfortunately i found two issues with this wheel, the brake rotor is too big and hit the caliper mount. 2nd issue is no seals! The wheel spacers have a metal shield that acts as a shield, but no seal. This was a no go for me even if the rotor would have cleared. I will use my CRF230 front wheel with XR bearings, shortened XR center bearing spacer, and custom spacers to make it fit.

I had a significant discovery with the triples. I am using 89 XR600 triples as recommended by RR and was planning to use aluminum spacers on the stem to make it fit. Once I removed the triple clamp from my 150R, I decided to press the stem out and try it in the XR600 clamp and it fit perfect!  I ordered an RSW Racing top clamp so I can use my 1-1/8” bars.

i am still missing some small parts and still need to turn some spacers....hopefully next weekend I can do some testing.

 

[RedMesa]

12 hours ago, jeffrow68 said:

I like the 150R forks, very light weight, but could not resolve the issue with the tire hitting the frame down tube. Not a bad hit, but enough that it keeps me concerned.  Not crazy about adding weight back with the XR forks, but we will see.  

On Saturday I pulled my 150RB forks and got a chance to weigh them

CRF230F ‘08 Triples with only one bearing = 5.59 lbs
CRF230F ‘08 Forks with BBR springs, oil, SealSavers, axle = 17.92
TOTAL = 23.51 lbs

CRF150RB ‘08 Triples with one bearing and two small risers = 4.03 lbs
CRF150RB ‘08 Forks with Cannon 0.50 springs, oil, guards, Ramz brake plate, axle = 16.76
TOTAL = 20.79 lbs

XR400R Triples ‘96 with both bearings = 4.66 lbs
XR400R Forks ‘03 with stock springs, oil, boots, axle = 19.92 lbs
TOTAL = 24.58 lbs

So XR400R about 3 lbs more than 150RB and 1 lb more than stock.

Edited November 5, 2018 by RedMesa

[RedMesa]

20 hours ago, jeffrow68 said:

i am still missing some small parts and still need to turn some spacers....hopefully next weekend I can do some testing.

I put two stock collars on the right side of the axle. This gives 38 mm of spacing on the right side.

To center the brake rotor in the caliper, one stock collar (19 mm) + two Hillman 3/4-inch washers + two Hillman 5/8-inch washers for a total of 30 mm between the bearing and the axle holder.

Will be interested in how much spacing you come up with. I had to test several combinations with the axle fully tightened. A half millimeter makes a difference.

BTW, if anyone is interested there are forks and triples on eBay: "1996 Honda XR400 Forks, Fork Tubes, Suspension OEM"

Edited November 5, 2018 by RedMesa

[jeffrow68]

Here are some pics of the triple clamp set up. 89 XR600 lower clamp, CRF150R stem, RSW Racing top clamp.  I just got the top clamp delivered today and I am very impressed. It has 6 mounting positions front to back, and you can get bar mounts in heights between 1.5” to 3”. I wanted 9/8” mounts so I could use my TE flex bars. 

RM, I plan to start setting up the 230 wheel soon, I have several spacers ordered and should be here soon. I will let you know the results.

[RedMesa]

Assembly completed and quick test ride today. With new bushings and seals it will be several rides until I can report results.

The write up was done at each stage so it is mostly complete: http://bit.ly/2Rgnujo

I did put on the PowerMadd 7/8 to 9/8 converter and 2-inch riser. TE Flex bars mounted up, but the PowerMadd is very picky about bolt angle and I came close to stripping out one hole. Actually had to run a tap through it. Scary.

No problem with cables reaching. Really feels like I can stand easier.

CRF150R fender appears to work fine.

Thanks to BTR for all the guidance.

Edited November 7, 2018 by RedMesa

[jeffrow68]

RM, did you use the 230 front wheel? If so, did you have to modify the center bearing distance spacer as BTR mentioned?  I don’t have my parts yet, but was curious if XR center bearing distance spacer was the same as the 230?

[RedMesa]

8 minutes ago, jeffrow68 said:

RM, did you use the 230 front wheel? If so, did you have to modify the center bearing distance spacer as BTR mentioned?  I don’t have my parts yet, but was curious if XR center bearing distance spacer was the same as the 230?

Jeffrow, yes I used the 230F wheel. The 400R distance collar has to be cut down from 60 to 56 mm. I did this with a tubing cutter and hacksaw.

 

[RedMesa]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:41 PM, jeffrow68 said:

I bought an 89 RM125 front wheel, spent a lot of time cleaning and straightening it, even put new bearings in. Unfortunately i found two issues with this wheel, the brake rotor is too big and hit the caliper mount. 2nd issue is no seals! The wheel spacers have a metal shield that acts as a shield, but no seal.

Left seal, the 400R fits. See the diagram above. Right seal is not straightforward. 400R ID is huge to fit the speedo hub. 230F ID is too small for 17 mm axle. 

It looks like a 50 x 24 x 5 mm seal would work. Not finding these. In inches: 1.968 x 0.944 x 0.196

BTR points out the bearing is sealed so he is not overly concerned. I would like a seal also if we can find one for a couple dollars.

Edited November 7, 2018 by RedMesa

[RedMesa]

On 11/5/2018 at 8:49 PM, jeffrow68 said:

Here are some pics of the triple clamp set up.

I put pix and weights here comparing stock, 150RB and 400R forks http://bit.ly/2qBMIxp

[RedMesa]

First test ride, mostly breaking in the seals and bushings. No comments on springs or damping yet.

V-shaped gully: full compression of fork is soft, no hint of fender hit

Climbing up ledges slowly: Very commanding, goes where you point it. Very solid front end.

Tight turns in trees: Does not seem any different in turning ability. The 400R upgrade raised the front end of the bike by 10 mm relative to stock and raised it 19 mm relative to the previous 150RB forks.

Standing is a bit easier. With the PowerMadd riser, the 400R bars are 51 mm higher than stock and 18 mm higher than previous 150RB triples.

Unfortunately I reassembled the caps wrong so the rebound clickers only have 6 clicks instead of 12. The Service Manual says nothing about this. BTR caught the problem. So I get to pull the forks. 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by RedMesa

[mixxer]

Awesome project... Bummer about having to pull the forks apart again...

I have a story about my biggest "damnit" wrenching moment.....

Another time 

 

[RedMesa]

2 hours ago, mixxer said:

Awesome project... Bummer about having to pull the forks apart again...

Thanks. Figured it out and got 12 clicks back. The 400R Service Manual is not up to the usual Honda standards. 19 gallons of fork fluid, no torque specs for pinch bolts, etc.

I added a new section under forks here http://bit.ly/2Rgnujo

Edited November 11, 2018 by RedMesa

[jeffrow68]

RM, please detail the resolution for getting proper number of clicks on the forks. I have my bike fully set up with the XR forks and plan to test this week if the weather holds out. 

[RedMesa]

9 hours ago, jeffrow68 said:

RM, please detail the resolution for getting proper number of clicks on the forks. I have my bike fully set up with the XR forks and plan to test this week if the weather holds out. 

Jeff, see "Resetting the rebound clickers" here http://bit.ly/2Rgnujo

Also last night I put up sag numbers for the stock springs.

And don't forget your 19 gallons of fork fluid, very important ?

Edited November 12, 2018 by RedMesa

[bajatrailrider]

forks no need off bike only remove top cap and adjust rebound nut. RM I rode with Kevin the Ex fireman from CA that you know. With new 18 KTM 500 6 day model. He asked me to readjust his suspension as harsh. We rode his area Rosarita Baja pretty rough rocky rutted trails.  two track up and down some steep off camber parts. Happy to say the little girls bike better as he had to stand on pegs. While I sat on seat with the girls bike taking up all the bumps. Still not fair test as he has stock susp Now before my brother . Chimes in Blab Blab this my 4000 dollar bike not bad V the 14000.00 KTM 

[bajatrailrider]

RM contact Mike as he did not cut center spacer with 230 wheel?

[jeffrow68]

RM, I used a CRF150R center bearing spacer from a rear wheel, it was plenty long and much lighter. I cut the correct length with tubing cutters to match the 230 center spacer. The remainder was just long enough to use as the right side spacer and was the perfect OD to fit the 230 seal for the right side. Killed two birds with one spacer, saved some weight, and now have a sealed right side.

BTW, your shop notebook is awesome. Lots of very detailed information. I wish I was half as organized as you, seems as I get older I remember less and less. The old PD pumper carb I was using recently gave up the ghost so I decided to re-try a real PWK carb. Thanks to your notes and details, the process was seamless.

Edited November 13, 2018 by jeffrow68

[RedMesa]

10 hours ago, jeffrow68 said:

RM, I used a CRF150R center bearing spacer from a rear wheel, it was plenty long and much lighter. 

BTW, your shop notebook is awesome. Lots of very detailed information. I wish I was half as organized as you, seems as I get older I remember less and less. The old PD pumper carb I was using recently gave up the ghost so I decided to re-try a real PWK carb. Thanks to your notes and details, the process was seamless.

Jeff, that is great. Cheaper option. I just added it to the Notebook.

Thanks for the feedback. I can't remember anything so I write it down as I do it, on the workbench.

Then later I check the contents for any issue that comes up on the bike. Usually find all kinds of stuff I totally forgot about.

Edited November 13, 2018 by RedMesa

[RedMesa]

15 hours ago, bajatrailrider said:

RM I rode with Kevin the Ex fireman from CA that you know. With new 18 KTM 500 6 day model. He asked me to readjust his suspension as harsh. 

I rode Kevin's bike and it is a race machine, pure and simple. Seat like sitting on a log. Wrong bike for probably 80% of buyers but it's a luxury brand and status symbol. You get an orange front plate for your car and an orange watch for your wrist and you are styling. All that counts is the look ?

Edited November 13, 2018 by RedMesa

[bajatrailrider]

8 hours ago, RedMesa said:

I rode Kevin's bike and it is a race machine, pure and simple. Seat like sitting on a log. Wrong bike for probably 80% of buyers but it's a luxury brand and status symbol. You get an orange front plate for your car and an orange watch for your wrist and you are styling. All that counts is the look ?

They make think its status symbol riding in back of truck. We in Baja don't think so as when in back of truck is because not running. HAAAA