Seat foam height. Opinions appreciated

[Bachnok]

So,  Despite my desires to work on standing more while riding I'm finding I still feel more at home sitting down.

The seat on my 2018 beta is actually really good. doesn't leave me sore unless i've been riding really lazy. (even when i'm riding seated I still focus on keeping my weight on the pegs and not on my butt)

That said. I'm considering a Seat Concepts seat.

My thought was this and i'm hoping someone will correct me if my logic isn't sound but:

I'm not a tall rider 5'10" but if I'm sitting a lot.  wouldn't a taller seat help keep my knees a little less bent and make popping up out of the seat to absorb impacts less strenuous?  I find my knees bark a little if I try to pop up off the pegs too fast.  I've considered a lower seat too thinking it would make touching the ground easier for me.  Touching the ground hasn't been too big of an issue for me but maybe it would be if I put a taller seat on?

Opinions or experiences would be much appreciated.

Also, If anyone has an opinion on whether to pay the extra money for a complete seat vs swapping out the foam and cover on the original pan let me know.  I originally thought I'd buy the complete seat but now I think if I ever did get a different bike and tried to sell the used seat separately nobody is going to pay me more than the price difference for a used seat.

Chime in. make me feel dumb!

[surfer-dude]

A TALLER SEAT WOULD HELP THE TRANSITION FROM SITTING TO STANDING, BUT..

AT YOUR HEIGHT IT WOULD ALSO PROBABLY BE A DETRIMENT TO THE BIKES OFF ROAD ABILITIES... BUT IT ALSO DEPENDS ON HOW AND WHERE YOU RIDE. IF THE RIDING YOU DO IS MORE FLOWING FAST TRAILS LIKE 3RD GEAR AND UP STUFF, THEN YEAH GO FOR IT. BUT IF YOU OFTEN FIND YOURSELF STUCK ON THE SIDE OF STEEP LOOSE ROCKY HILLS THEN YOU MIGHT WANNA THINK ABOUT IT A BIT MORE AND EVEN CONSIDER A SHORTER SEAT. JUST BECAUSE THE SHORTER SEAT MAKES MANHANDLING THE BIKE A BIT EASIER. I'M A TRUE CONVERT TO THE LOWER SEAT HEIGHT OF THE BETA, I THINK IT REALLY HELPS.

 

 I'M 6'0" BAREFOOTED AND I THINK I'D LIKE TO GO LOWER THAN STOCK. RIGHT NOW I GOT THE STOCK SEAT AND ITS ALL GOOD, BUT SOMETIMES WHEN IM STUCK ON A GOOD OLE LOOSE ROCKY HILL AND I'M ALMOST HIGH CENTERED AND PEOPLE ARE WATCHING AND IM HAVING TO JUMP OVER FROM ONE SIDE OF THE BIKE TO THE OTHER I CANT HELP BUT THINKING A LOWER SEAT WOULD HELP. 

 

 

[Cullins]

I would get the complete seat. The Seat Comcepts seat base fits better and stays tighter than the stocker. 

I would stick with the stock seat height. Especially if you sit a lot. Problem with a taller seat is it raises your whole center of gravity making the bike not handle as well. Not a big deal if you stand a lot. I've used taller seat in the past for just the reason you mentioned, but after trying them back to back with the stocker it's harder to lay the bike over in corners sitting higher up. That's why almost no tall pros use a taller seat. Even Benny Blose at 6'-6" uses a stock seat. 

[gullywasher]

A taller seat gives you more leg room. It also makes the handle bars lower when seated. That is a big comfort issue for some, and then many others wouldn't even notice. You could raise the bars proportionately, but then they are taller when standing. Again, you might not notice at all, but be aware of the compromises being made. You'll notice handling changes when seated, too, usually not good changes either. Going a lower seat presents the same compromises in reverse, though I never feel handling is compromised with the low seat. I personally am not bothered so much with bar height changes of 2 inches or less. I do notice it at first, but it starts feeling normal pretty quickly.

 

Yes, you would be able to pop up out of the seat easier, but there is no guarantee that you will experience much less protest from your knees. One or two inches can make quite a difference, so you would certainly notice when dabbing or paddling.

 

As far as the prefab seat vs. the foam kit, I guess that depends on your financial situation. It is worth my time to get the prefab. The other benefit of that is that you will still have your original seat in the event that you don't like the change much or maybe find you just prefer different seats for different rides. Probably not a huge resale market for the standard seat if you wanted to unload it, but you could always keep it for when it comes time to sell your bike, then sell the tall/low seat separately.

 

 

[Marco the Pool Boy]

@5’9” with a 31” inseam I liked the Guts soft seat foam as I have that inside my OEM base, but bought the SeatConcepts low complete seat assembly. With the Guts foam (soft) slightly taller than the SeatConcepts but I like the narrower base of the OEM Base as its as easy to touch the ground. The SeatConcepts seat is wider so between the 2 they’re both about the same as far as inseam wise.

If I’m doing single track the Guts foam is nice, for DS riding the SeatConcepts is more comfortable so I use the SeatConcepts most often.

 

Honestly I’d try the Guts soft standard height foam first, at the time when I bought it the price was $68.00, which is a lot cheaper than the SeatConcepts unit.

 

[surfer-dude]

I also just remembered that if your knees are giving you issues maybe you should try some neoprene knee braces they're like 20 bucks from the sporting goods store. They keep the joints nice and warm! just wear em underneath youre other set of pads or braces or whatever you got going on.

I got some old hammer bmx neoprene pads that I wear underneath my other el cheapo evs dirt bike knee pads. but they're all burnt up from the 4 stroke exhuast. I cant find any new ones, so I'm having my seamstress make me some, I just gotta go shopping for the neoprene material that I wanna use, and She's gonna use the hammers as the pattern for the new ones.

I was in a hit from behind car crash a while back while at an almost dead stop, and the illegal immigrant that hit me with false plates and no insurance was doing about 45mph and so I ended up with a fractured humurous and femur which is mostly healed but now its being treated as tennis elbow and bone contusions in my knee. So I forced myself to quit riding for a while, but forget that no riding nonsense. I gotta ride!!!

knee and elbow pain sucks

[FORMA MOTO]

I raise my seats 2-3" AND lower the pegs AND raise my bars 35mm

I am 6'4" and have ruined knees and shoulders and need all the help I can get

The high center of gravity is easily gotten used to.

It's the reach for your foot on uneven ground or rocks that is the hardest part.

It's all about priorities. 

 

 

[hawaiidirtrider]

All the info listed so far has merit.  Ive tried a variety of seats for my Honda and 3 Betas. All are good in a variety of ways and like some have said it depends on what kind of riding you do like more open or technical tight. Ive used gutz soft tall seat and added a hump in back to lock my butt more in place on muddy days and for uphills . Seat concepts has 2 design seats. I like the dualsport wider in back seat better than the stock shape seat that seat concepts also sell. Ive heard the full seat for seat concepts has a better design seat base but Ive had no issues with my stock seat base. 

Oh Im 6’1” and around 230 and I ride a variety of stuff but lots of technical with steep up and down hills etc. i really liked my seat concepts dual sport style tall “ soft”(which is more like a medium tension foam if ordering from gutz . It’s great the majority of the time . I loved it but I was falling or more on the verge of going over forwards on super steep down hills. I usually have a heavy backpack and my torso is a little longer than my legs. The tipping point with my center of gravity much highr made me decide to get a stock height and stock shaped seat concepts full seat used on ebay. It’s safer for steep downhills and easier ducking under fallen trees and crossing rocky boulder riverbeds. Now I wish I had the stock height dual sport style sc seat. That would be the best to me. For my situation at least. The handling with the tall seat is great and I got a little taller suzukt/ ktm bend higher bars and wider platform pegs. Stock ergos aren’t bad. Just trying different setups. You might think of changing the position of your bars in the triple clamps too. There are 3  positions to choose from. It all figures for an overall ergos feel with your seat. 

[shrubitup]

6'2" 300RR. Purchased Guts tall seat foam in soft density and cover. WAY more comfortable than the OEM seat. Easy installation provided you have a air operated staple gun like @NW_drZ

[Bachnok]

I've got the fastway pegs.

Hearing everyone's input makes me think maybe I'll get the lower seat high which would be nice since I'm not a tall guy and then lower the pegs to help compensate.

I struggle a bit with center of gravity issues.  It's part of what makes me uncomfortable standing up riding. I feel like I'm on the verge getting bucked off all the time.  Also I think maybe I have short arms or something cause when i'm standing the bars feel miles away from me.

Any opinions are raising the bars if you're not a tall guy? I feel like i'm average in literally every way. (except...)

[surfer-dude]

Yep, fastway pegs down low and back and the bars pushed forward and in the forward set of triple clamp holes, works for me.

Also teach your self not to stand straight up , but learn to stay in the attack position: 

Do a proper set up on the bike, cuz it sounds like your suspension is little off. Maybe take a few clicks out of the shock rebound. Then run some practice drills. Simple figure 8's and maybe some corner tracks would probly be just what you need. I wouldnt do bar risers or anything like that, Your bikes awsome, and it handles too good to mess with. It was designed with a low center of gravity. Just run some practice drills and learn how to use it... Throwing money at the bike isnt gonna help you ride better. Just ride!!!

http://www.tootechracing.com/suspension-set-up-help.shtml

[Bachnok]

Yep, fastway pegs down low and back and the bars pushed forward and in the forward set of triple clamp holes, works for me.
Also teach your self not to stand straight up , but learn to stay in the attack position: 
Do a proper set up on the bike, cuz it sounds like your suspension is little off. Maybe take a few clicks out of the shock rebound. Then run some practice drills. Simple figure 8's and maybe some corner tracks would probly be just what you need. I wouldnt do bar risers or anything like that, Your bikes awsome, and it handles too good to mess with. It was designed with a low center of gravity. Just run some practice drills and learn how to use it... Throwing money at the bike isnt gonna help you ride better. Just ride!!!
http://www.tootechracing.com/suspension-set-up-help.shtml

Ain’t that the truth. I’m totally guilty of having fixit man disease when it comes to my equipment while turning a blind eye to the number one source of problems and fixes... me.

When you say take a few click out.. do you mean a few clicks out or a few clicks in. Cause when I read it I thought slowing the rebound in the shock might help me not feel so disconnected.

[RudderFeet]

All of the advice you've gotten so far is excellent, and additionally you may want to consider physical therapy or personal training to strengthen your legs, knees and ankles, because that'll pay dividends while you're riding, walking and doing everything else in life.  I say that sitting here 10 days post-op of an L5/S1 microdisectomy to alleviate sciatica issues from a badly herniated disc.  Before my operation and you can bet as soon as I'm cleared, I'm going to spend months re-strengthening my legs and back to improve my standing endurance.  I also have a trials motorcycle which I'm telling you everything they say about them is true - they're hard to learn how to ride at first but they *really* improve one's balance and form which greatly extends enduro endurance by making you spend less needless energy pushing the bike against physics.  When you look at some of these 70 year olds beating the snot out of riders 40 years younger at enduro and dual sport events by simply staying ahead of the motorcycle, moving in harmony with it and practicing enough to strengthen the muscles we should be using instead of wearing out the ones we shouldn't -it shows us how form and fitness makes all the difference in the world.  A well-set-up bike also is huge, but don't overlook conditioning.

[surfer-dude]

 Ain’t that the truth. I’m totally guilty of having fixit man disease when it comes to my equipment while turning a blind eye to the number one source of problems and fixes... me.  When you say take a few click out.. do you mean a few clicks out or a few clicks in. Cause when I read it I thought slowing the rebound in the shock might help me not feel so disconnected.

 

 

 

Yea, opps i meant a couple clicks in or clockwise, to slow it down. I got a young friend thats always messing with his bike and then usually i gotta fix it for him. I always tell him “dont fix it if it aint broke”  

These bikes are so well engineered that the only thing you need to do is take it apart and grease but every beta ive ever heard about comes greased pretty good from the factory, unlike hondas that have almost zero grease, and go and pull apart the electrical connectors and add some dielectric grease and put them back together.

And then ride, ride, ride. And when you break something from riding too hard or crashing then go ahead and modify.

You probably should just go ahead and add some rad guards tho

Everything else on the beta should be sweet like mamas cherry pie

 

 

 

[Bachnok]

I did a byob so she came with handguards, pipe guard, rad guards, case saver, skid plate, high flow water pump, sprung for my weight, basically as much stuff as I could think of that I knew I would want to do anyway.

[Marco the Pool Boy]

I've got the fastway pegs.
Hearing everyone's input makes me think maybe I'll get the lower seat high which would be nice since I'm not a tall guy and then lower the pegs to help compensate.
I struggle a bit with center of gravity issues.  It's part of what makes me uncomfortable standing up riding. I feel like I'm on the verge getting bucked off all the time.  Also I think maybe I have short arms or something cause when i'm standing the bars feel miles away from me.
Any opinions are raising the bars if you're not a tall guy? I feel like i'm average in literally every way. (except...)

Even at 5’9” 31” inseam to facilitate standing under power riding rough terrain I use the Fastway pegs set down/back, installed a 1” riser from Boano set in the rearward position and with either seat I decide to pop on (Guts soft foam standard height or the SeatConcepts low/wide) I still have stability/balance to ride a long time, and I’m a old fart!!

[Bachnok]

2 minutes ago, Mark-us-B said:

 

Even at 5’9” 31” inseam to facilitate standing under power riding rough terrain I use the Fastway pegs set down/back, installed a 1” riser from Boano set in the rearward position and with either seat I decide to pop on (Guts soft foam standard height or the SeatConcepts low/wide) I still have stability/balance to ride a long time, and I’m a old fart!!

What I'm taking from that is that I'm not crazy for thinking my bars are too far away from me and making me work too hard to stay in the attack position.

I'm just shy of 5'10" 32" inseam and 71" wingspan.  Which I think makes me the average height, average leg length, and a just a touch shy on arm length.  No doubt conditioning will help a lot but if I've only got about 30 seconds of attack position in me before my back gives out maybe moving the bars a little closer would help me out.  I feel like I'm just crouched a little too low when stand up riding and if I could open up a little more I'd save mountains of energy.

[RudderFeet]

32 minutes ago, Bachnok said:

What I'm taking from that is that I'm not crazy for thinking my bars are too far away from me and making me work too hard to stay in the attack position.

I'm just shy of 5'10" 32" inseam and 71" wingspan.  Which I think makes me the average height, average leg length, and a just a touch shy on arm length.  No doubt conditioning will help a lot but if I've only got about 30 seconds of attack position in me before my back gives out maybe moving the bars a little closer would help me out.  I feel like I'm just crouched a little too low when stand up riding and if I could open up a little more I'd save mountains of energy.

Then absolutely look at higher bars instead of a higher seat.  Renthal makes a Ricky Carmichael High Bend bar you may want to look at.  Some guys put on ROX risers on instead, but note that Betas have wider bar bases, so be sure to get the right kind of risers.

[Marco the Pool Boy]

What I'm taking from that is that I'm not crazy for thinking my bars are too far away from me and making me work too hard to stay in the attack position.
I'm just shy of 5'10" 32" inseam and 71" wingspan.  Which I think makes me the average height, average leg length, and a just a touch shy on arm length.  No doubt conditioning will help a lot but if I've only got about 30 seconds of attack position in me before my back gives out maybe moving the bars a little closer would help me out.  I feel like I'm just crouched a little too low when stand up riding and if I could open up a little more I'd save mountains of energy.

Yeah in a 4 hour ride in single track stuff rocky/roots lots of steep ups/downs I’m on my feet bout 50% of the time. The way my Beta is setup is as comfortable as a broke in set of tennis shoes.

Having my pegs down/back loads more weight on the rear wheel which for me at least is a plus, as I can sometimes ride up on the tank unconsciously and the higher mounted bars in the rearward position adds to proper body position for me allowing excellent traction on steep climbs. It also helps on steep downhills.

[Bachnok]

I'm running flexx bars with a fairly high bend.  I don't think I'll be swapping bars.

I think before I spend any money I'll lower my pegs and see how she feels.

from there I'll consider whether my bars need to move.  And save the seat for last probably.

I've been eyeballing the brp rubber bar mounts (which raises the bar 1") with scott SUB stabilizer.  Just haven't had the heart to drop that kind of coin yet. Trying to save up for a big vacation next year ?

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bachnok