Documentary Video: Foggy Dew of the North Cascades

[Pickle4]

It NEVER ends....
Ref: https://mountainbuzz.com
Introducing children to mountain biking is CRIMINAL. Mountain biking, besides being expensive and very environmentally destructive, is extremely dangerous. Recently a 12-year-old girl DIED during her very first mountain biking lesson! Another became quadriplegic at 13! Serious accidents and even deaths are commonplace. Truth be told, mountain bikers want to introduce kids to mountain biking because (1) they want more people to help them lobby to open our precious natural areas to mountain biking and (2) children are too naive to understand and object to this activity. For 600+ examples of serious accidents and deaths caused by mountain biking, see http://mjvande.info/mtb_dangerous.htm.

Bicycles should not be allowed in any natural area. They are inanimate objects and have no rights. There is also no right to mountain bike. That was settled in federal court in 1996: http://mjvande.info/mtb10.htm . It's dishonest of mountain bikers to say that they don't have access to trails closed to bikes. They have EXACTLY the same access as everyone else -- ON FOOT! Why isn't that good enough for mountain bikers? They are all capable of walking....

A favorite myth of mountain bikers is that mountain biking is no more harmful to wildlife, people, and the environment than hiking, and that science supports that view. Of course, it's not true. To settle the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited, and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts (see http://mjvande.info/scb7.htm ). I found that of the seven studies they cited, (1) all were written by mountain bikers, and (2) in every case, the authors misinterpreted their own data, in order to come to the conclusion that they favored. They also studiously avoided mentioning another scientific study (Wisdom et al) which did not favor mountain biking, and came to the opposite conclusions.

Mountain bikers also love to build new trails - legally or illegally. Of course, trail-building destroys wildlife habitat - not just in the trail bed, but in a wide swath to both sides of the trail! E.g. grizzlies can hear a human from one mile away, and smell us from 5 miles away. Thus, a 10-mile trail represents 100 square miles of destroyed or degraded habitat, that animals are inhibited from using. Mountain biking, trail building, and trail maintenance all increase the number of people in the park, thereby preventing the animals' full use of their habitat.

Mountain biking accelerates erosion, creates V-shaped ruts, kills small animals and plants on and next to the trail, drives wildlife and other trail users out of the area, and, worst of all, teaches kids that the rough treatment of nature is okay (it's NOT!). What's good about THAT?

For more information: http://mjvande.info/mtbfaq.htm .

Mike Vandeman is a well known anti-mtb zealot. He was even arrested a few years back hitting a guy on a bike with a saw. Reading through some of his interactions on mtb forums can actually be entertaining.

[Slackkinhard]

32 minutes ago, Pickle4 said:

20 hours ago, Slackkinhard said:

It NEVER ends....
Ref: https://mountainbuzz.com
Introducing children to mountain biking is CRIMINAL. Mountain biking, besides being expensive and very environmentally destructive, is extremely dangerous. Recently a 12-year-old girl DIED during her very first mountain biking lesson! Another became quadriplegic at 13! Serious accidents and even deaths are commonplace. Truth be told, mountain bikers want to introduce kids to mountain biking because (1) they want more people to help them lobby to open our precious natural areas to mountain biking and (2) children are too naive to understand and object to this activity. For 600+ examples of serious accidents and deaths caused by mountain biking, see http://mjvande.info/mtb_dangerous.htm.

Bicycles should not be allowed in any natural area. They are inanimate objects and have no rights. There is also no right to mountain bike. That was settled in federal court in 1996: http://mjvande.info/mtb10.htm . It's dishonest of mountain bikers to say that they don't have access to trails closed to bikes. They have EXACTLY the same access as everyone else -- ON FOOT! Why isn't that good enough for mountain bikers? They are all capable of walking....

A favorite myth of mountain bikers is that mountain biking is no more harmful to wildlife, people, and the environment than hiking, and that science supports that view. Of course, it's not true. To settle the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited, and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts (see http://mjvande.info/scb7.htm ). I found that of the seven studies they cited, (1) all were written by mountain bikers, and (2) in every case, the authors misinterpreted their own data, in order to come to the conclusion that they favored. They also studiously avoided mentioning another scientific study (Wisdom et al) which did not favor mountain biking, and came to the opposite conclusions.

Mountain bikers also love to build new trails - legally or illegally. Of course, trail-building destroys wildlife habitat - not just in the trail bed, but in a wide swath to both sides of the trail! E.g. grizzlies can hear a human from one mile away, and smell us from 5 miles away. Thus, a 10-mile trail represents 100 square miles of destroyed or degraded habitat, that animals are inhibited from using. Mountain biking, trail building, and trail maintenance all increase the number of people in the park, thereby preventing the animals' full use of their habitat.

Mountain biking accelerates erosion, creates V-shaped ruts, kills small animals and plants on and next to the trail, drives wildlife and other trail users out of the area, and, worst of all, teaches kids that the rough treatment of nature is okay (it's NOT!). What's good about THAT?

For more information: http://mjvande.info/mtbfaq.htm .

Read more  

Mike Vandeman is a well known anti-mtb zealot. He was even arrested a few years back hitting a guy on a bike with a saw. Reading through some of his interactions on mtb forums can actually be entertaining.

?

I don't believe he is the voice of the hiker crowd anymore than I think a few moto guys are the voice of moto. But it doesn't take but one to file a suit, or as they've done against us, found an enviro lawyer willing to make a living harassing us. All part of the journey in the last few decades. Not sure what can be done, I'd like to believe the mtb crowd is making progress, and I hope that translates to more moto available. I won't hold my breath, but I know there's a moto club in every bedroom community, the NMA and WOHVA all been working hard for decades. It's not like we are new to this game.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Slackkinhard

[Tye Durden]

On 10/14/2018 at 7:33 AM, TigerTanker said:

Damn, xhe makes a powerful logical and fact based argument! I wonder what said person thinks of motorized bicycles. Better not ask as said xhe’s head may explode and kill innocent bystanders 

Except where the part that xhe assumes if a griz can smell a human they automatically run and hide.

[cougbike]

One could make the argument that hiking is very dangerous and destructive to nature.   How many hikers have died falling over cliffs, getting lost, disappearing in bad weather.  There is plenty of documentation about overcrowded hiking trails becoming as bad as a any other user group trail.  A narrow single track trail in the woods, where one cannot ride off the trail, is no worse than any hiker only trail.   As a matter of fact how many riders do you actually come across when you are out riding the high elevation trails.    Been up to Denny Creek, Mt Si, Mailbox Peak, those trails are loaded with people, and are they paying tab fees, no but they require expensive parking lots and toilets and garbage cans, security etc....   I envy the MT biker group, they at least have their sh%#$t together in activism.  It's the fringe environmental left left that needs to be contained.  That f^$cking paper straw last about a New York minute in my sugar infested Big Gulp. 

[tek9tim]

Back to the page 1 discussion, it's funny that I agree that Foggy is too long of a drive to put in my regular rotation of trails, since it's about an hour and fifteen from my house. What's funny is that it would take me about as long to get to the North Tommy trailhead, and that's up the same valley I live in. 

[PNW Enduro]

My footage from the FD ride....

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by PNW Enduro

[Dances With Rocks]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:56 AM, TigerTanker said:

Rode this just recently with @PNW Enduro and @Jon K

PNW had been twice before, first time for Jon and I. This place I'd heard was top shelf, and it didn't disappoint.

Riding difficulty of the trails we rode were 4/5 stars, did 60 miles with about 20 miles on an off track line that was truly excellent. Remarkably well maintained trails, the locals deserve huge kudos. Must be a ton of work too, there are sections of tree fall that will blow your mind....tinder box. 

In the video, you'll see that we wind up riding about 5 different types of trail along the very diverse landscape. 

If this isn't on your riding bucket list...it will be after watching this!

The little town of Pateros WA is nearby with lodging, gas and a nice restaurant. It's also about 1 hr from Lake Chelan area. In the future, I'm going to head up there for a 3-4 day visit. This place might be rideable now, but probably not for more than a week or two depending on incoming snow. 

Already thinking about next year!

 

 

Rode it today with the locals. Couldn’t figure out why the trails were so tore up, but knew I had seen this thread. Watched the videos here tonight, now I know! Someone should learn how to ride the flat stuff first. Lots of wheel spin in the vid.

Thank the Coulee Riders for the trail conditions, and the trails that are not marked that you rode.

Edited October 28, 2018 by mlyamkaw

[TigerTanker]

1 minute ago, mlyamkaw said:

Rode it today with the locals. Couldn’t figure out why the trails were so tore up, but knew I had seen this thread. Watched the videos here tonight, now I know! Someone should learn how to ride the flat stuff first. Lots of wheel spin in the vid, and you had perfect traction, nice and moist.

Thank the Coulee Riders for the trail conditions, and the trails that are not marked that you rode.

Couldn’t possibly be the change in weather, snow, increase in fall riders...

But hey, you wanna be a dick, go ahead. 

[Dances With Rocks]

1 minute ago, TigerTanker said:

Couldn’t possibly be the change in weather, snow, increase in fall riders...

But hey, you wanna be a dick, go ahead. 

You know you’re a Spode, go ahead...

[brownballin]

7 minutes ago, mlyamkaw said:

Rode it today with the locals. Couldn’t figure out why the trails were so tore up, but knew I had seen this thread. Watched the videos here tonight, now I know! Someone should learn how to ride the flat stuff first. Lots of wheel spin in the vid.

Thank the Coulee Riders for the trail conditions, and the trails that are not marked that you rode.

Why would you opine on a ride you weren’t on in an area you were not   Is this what the kids call trolling?

[Dances With Rocks]

4 minutes ago, brownballin said:

Why would you opine on a ride you weren’t on in an area you were not   Is this what the kids call trolling?

Did you see the video? My friends and I saw the trails, and then saw the video. How is that trolling? 

I don’t post videos or comment here much, 400 posts in 15 years. Hardly a troll. But I would be embarrassed to post a video of myself “spinning” my way up a mountain.

[TigerTanker]

10 minutes ago, mlyamkaw said:

Did you see the video? My friends and I saw the trails, and then saw the video. How is that trolling? 

I don’t post videos or comment here much, 400 posts in 15 years. Hardly a troll. But I would be embarrassed to post a video of myself “spinning” my way up a mountain.

Where’s your vid?

 

22 minutes ago, mlyamkaw said:

You know you’re a Spode, go ahead...

Be sure to introduce yourself when you meet me. I see your from Idaho. Lol..

Edited October 28, 2018 by TigerTanker

[brownballin]

8 minutes ago, mlyamkaw said:

Did you see the video? My friends and I saw the trails, and then saw the video. How is that trolling? 

I don’t post videos or comment here much, 400 posts in 15 years. Hardly a troll. But I would be embarrassed to post a video of myself “spinning” my way up a mountain.

[brownballin]

You should be embarrassed criticizing someone on a dirt bike forum. I think this is trolling. Has all the components. Ignorant outlandish opinion 

[Dances With Rocks]

4 minutes ago, TigerTanker said:

Where’s your vid?

 

Be sure to introduce yourself when you meet me. I see your from Idaho. Lol..

Sure thing tough guy. I lived in Washington for 23 years, LOL

[TigerTanker]

1 minute ago, mlyamkaw said:

Sure thing tough guy. I lived in Washington for 23 years, LOL

Idaho Tiger envy....

Lol, your fem squad is always good for a laugh. 

Hows ride tourism treating you and your “boys”?

 

[Dances With Rocks]

7 minutes ago, brownballin said:

You should be embarrassed criticizing someone on a dirt bike forum. I think this is trolling. Has all the components. Ignorant outlandish opinion 

It’s ok Princess. Tiger likes the abuse.

1 minute ago, TigerTanker said:

Idaho Tiger envy....

Lol, your fem squad is always good for a laugh. 

Hows ride tourism treating you and your “boys”?

 

Get out of your head and speak English please

[TigerTanker]

Just now, mlyamkaw said:

It’s ok Princess. Tiger likes the abuse.

Tall tales of bs from the girls of Idaho. If you got any vid of your pristine princess non tire spinning ballerina ride, be sure to let me know. 

[brownballin]

1 minute ago, mlyamkaw said:

It’s ok Princess. Tiger likes the abuse.

Yup now trying to insult ones gender or royal blood line.  It’s gotta be a troll. I guess the next step would be creating some crazy impressive resume using points like years riding or perceived skill level

[TigerTanker]

4 minutes ago, mlyamkaw said:

It’s ok Princess. Tiger likes the abuse.

Get out of your head and speak English please

Just let me know next time you are out here riding. We can sort out my English and your big mouth. But your probably just a badass hiding behind a computer and your boy squads skirts. In real life you’d tell me it was just kidding around. Lol... go tuck yourself into bed ballerina rider.