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My new bike bubble has burst

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I don't know what the target market(age) is for dirt bikes. But I do know that most over forty guys who have been in the game for many years do look back at the lower prices and cringe at today's prices. Just normal IMO and will never change. The "good 'ol days"  is a psychological thing, just human nature. I remember when many thought that Penton's breaking the $2000 threshold would kill the sport. My only thought concerning cost is the 4stk bikes, I see folks getting out of the sport due to the higher cost and labor intensive nature of the 4stks.

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7 hours ago, mog said:

If you don't have a new market you don't have a used market , I have learnt one thing from this thread ,people fix on the symptoms not the cause

 

To solve my problems I just go to the dealer ,put my card into the machine and buy a new bike ,that's not the ACTUAL PROBLEM !

 

The actual problem is OEM aim at 40 something people who bought bikes in there 20s and 30s and 40s ,if we no longer buy then the market pretty much collapses

 

But never mind

 

 

So promote and make racing more available for kids?? That's your market you are grumbling about. You want dirtbike industry to be sustainable? Get a whole bunch of kids to ride and race throughout the world. That's all it is.  :smirk: It's always been the older generation of riders that pay for their kids. I couldn't buy a new bike in intermediate or high school.. not anything new. I got propped up by my Dad who got me into the sport. That's how it is for almost all kids. It's the parents .  As far as marketing by manufacturers toward those who have the money to buy? That's always been. There are also bikes made now that are less expensive with some cheaper grade components brand new . There's a yzx 250, Got the xtrainer, got the new gasgas ranger.. got some bikes that don't cost as much for some to buy that don't want to buy the most expensive bikes like Husky and KTM etc. It's not like this situation hasn't been for decades now. You have money to buy new bikes every year but guess what all this time there are a bunch of us that don't buy brand new for decades. I bought a used 2001 cr 250 in  2002 and kept the same bike till 2012. I bought a couple of new bikes in between buying more used bikes.. Got a brand new 2009 Beta 525 rs and a new 2015 Beta 300 but I've bought a few bikes in between used like most. Hawaii is a super expensive place to live and the wages here are average . It's weird to me to hear a guy talking about how he's bummed to lose in depreciation on his 2018 to buy a 2019.. So you are only now conscious of what most deal with in the dirt bike motorcycle market???? You seem deeply out of touch to the reality of many riders real world situations that they've been dealing with for decades.

To me if you want to help the industry according to what you feel is the problem then gotta help with the kids starting to ride. Go volunteer at your local races for young riders. I had my Dad who donated his time money and effort volunteering for years and making races and getting me to the races when I was young, working on my bikes etc since I was 7. It's the same for a pile of guys here. There families got them going.  All this stuff isn't new. 

 

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4 hours ago, mog said:

2 bikes 2 manufacturers,all ktms have risen a similar amount , I suspect if I showed you 10 ,you would want 20 ,if I showed you 20 you want 40 , at some point you might accept a 10% rise in price when inflation is 2.5 means it's a big increase ,with an actual worse senario when you sell,which is the point I have made all along ....

KTM's are the most expensive bikes here to buy. I'm guessing it's the same where you are. I can buy a brand new comparable Beta 500 for example with a year warranty and save over a grand over buying a same level new KTM 500 . I could buy a new yz 250 which is a good bike and old design with 5 speed and no estart but I could buy for even way more cheaper but I'd have a new bike I could ride and race too as an example..  There are different markets and prices and models for different dirt bikes . Who cares if there are some brands that cost more? Some buy and some will never buy those most expensive priced bikes new . That's always how it's been.

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A yz is way over priced imo ,for a bike that's hardly changed since 06 to want nearly as much as a KTM is a total rip off

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On 10/19/2018 at 5:53 PM, MotorBoatin said:


Now I know your full of shit :lol:

Soooo, ppl younger than me don't sell bikes on Craigslist?  Good to know, not. edit* Are you really saying that "kids", you know because I'm 43 and literally 25 yr old ppl are kids to me, don't sell bikes on Craigslist?  Are you seriously saying that?  Lol, if so, you sir, are indeed a special kind of stupid.  I mean shit, if it's ok for you to call me a liar I reckon it's ok for me to say you're about an ignorant son of a bitch,  right? Because I'm absolutely sure that there's thousands of guys and girls selling dirt bikes on Craigslist that ain't &%$#@!ing 65. Or are you under the impression that theres like an age limit on selling shit on Craigslist? Lol, I actually had to let that last rum and coke kick in to truly understand how utterly ignorant your comment was. Lol. 

Edited by Yammyhammer

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4 hours ago, mog said:

A yz is way over priced imo ,for a bike that's hardly changed since 06 to want nearly as much as a KTM is a total rip off

Yea but the bike is competitive. Guys win on YZs. It’s still cheaper. The price difference with a higher priced ktm or whatever just goes to improvements that haven’t even been started on more expensive bikes.  Personally if getting a 125 for mx I could get any of a bunch of used japanese and build up for fun. No new 125 2t are much advanced. So I fix up a kx or rm or cr maxed out with motor and suspension. I’ll still come out way ahead of a new ktm unless a specific need for an estart or something specific that other bikes don’t have. So now there’s Sherco and Beta in the 125 ranks but for enduro too. Still can race mx too but estart is nice. This 125 class is good for the starter ranks of young riders.  No matter what brand prices will rise or fall depending on demand and availability. Still for those that want a new 125 they’ll just figure a way to buy. 

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Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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I've been beat by a 1998 yz 125 ,he beat most people that day ,doesn't make the bike worth the same as bikes he beat

It's a false logic I'm afraid

If you pay nearly the same for a 06 compared to a 18 ( both new ) the 06 is a total rip off ,you can dress it up anyway you like ,the facts don't change , if a new KTM is expensive a 06 yz sold in 18 is the biggest con trick I'm Mx

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50 minutes ago, Yammyhammer said:

Soooo, ppl younger than me don't sell bikes on Craigslist?  Good to know, not. edit* Are you really saying that "kids", you know because I'm 43 and literally 25 yr old ppl are kids to me, don't sell bikes on Craigslist?  Are you seriously saying that?  Lol, if so, you sir, are indeed a special kind of stupid.  I mean shit, if it's ok for you to call me a liar I reckon it's ok for me to say you're about an ignorant son of a bitch,  right? Because I'm absolutely sure that there's thousands of guys and girls selling dirt bikes on Craigslist that ain't &%$#@!ing 65. Or are you under the impression that theres like an age limit on selling shit on Craigslist? Lol, I actually had to let that last rum and coke kick in to truly understand how utterly ignorant your comment was. Lol. 

EnviousEverlastingAmazonparrot-max-1mb.g

 

You're full of shit because you say you bought a 20 year old stroker off CL that is so reliable it's never been rebuilt and you have put several thousand hours on it 

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, mog said:

I've been beat by a 1998 yz 125 ,he beat most people that day ,doesn't make the bike worth the same as bikes he beat

It's a false logic I'm afraid

If you pay nearly the same for a 06 compared to a 18 ( both new ) the 06 is a total rip off ,you can dress it up anyway you like ,the facts don't change , if a new KTM is expensive a 06 yz sold in 18 is the biggest con trick I'm Mx

Whatever.. That’s only in your head. I could think that the bike is worth more.  He beat you and he’s happy riding his old  bike and beating you with his much cheaper bike. Honestly what makes the 2019 ktm you want better than your 2018? What makes your 2018 better than a  125 say 5 or 10 years older? Especially after doing the suspension? Honestly to me one of the greatest handling bikes is a setup 2005-2007 Honda cr 250 r . It’s an old bike and not made anymore. So what? It’s still a great bike . In the 125 class I think bikes are all pretty good including old 125’s . It’s setup. You can hold your expensive value on the newest bike. To each their own. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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how many years after 2006 did it take KTM to market a 250 2 stroke that was as good as a YZ250 ?........a bunch.....there are a few truths in dirt bikes :  virtuially none of us are as good as the bike,,,,,,a faster bike just means getting on the brakes sooner.....most riders are just as fast on a well suspended 1996 cr250 as they are on a 2018 KTM250,,,,,,,all are over weight and over priced

if you're thinking about selling a bike because it is a year old and has less than 30 hours on it you don't need it. That used to be every month for a couple of bikes for us. I just rebuilt the bikes and kept going. We normally got 2 years out of a bike and it was race ready when I sold it. If you sell clapped out bikes around a local racing circuit you won't be able to sell many.

Edited by Budlite
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3 hours ago, Budlite said:

most riders are just as fast on a well suspended 1996 cr250 as they are on a 2018 KTM250

1996......Yes

1997......No :naughty:

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This is a piece of shit bike and he kicks ass with it.  It’s the rider more than a new bike. He’s beating the best pros with the latest greatest equipment with this first gen aluminum cr . 

 

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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We raced a 99 CR250 from mid 1999 to mid 2001......won a LOT of races on it. I trail rode in the desert a number of times and I noticed that if I sat on the back of the seat it would punish me. Funny though when I slid forward a couple of inches it went completely away. A little more padding on the back of the seat would make a huge difference. Just before I sold it I put a new cylinder from the 2001 model....It was faster than our new 2002. The 99 was the only bike that I used gold valves front and back. The suggested valving wasn't good but it sorted out easy enough. Personally I think the bike was a lot better than some of the mags reported.

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3 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

97-99 cr is 1st gen aluminum..the same 

...some stiff frame action..

Everyone knows the 97 was a POS

Even Ronnie 

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3 hours ago, Budlite said:

We raced a 99 CR250 from mid 1999 to mid 2001......won a LOT of races on it. I trail rode in the desert a number of times and I noticed that if I sat on the back of the seat it would punish me. Funny though when I slid forward a couple of inches it went completely away. A little more padding on the back of the seat would make a huge difference. Just before I sold it I put a new cylinder from the 2001 model....It was faster than our new 2002. The 99 was the only bike that I used gold valves front and back. The suggested valving wasn't good but it sorted out easy enough. Personally I think the bike was a lot better than some of the mags reported.

Well to each their own but if riding 1st ,2nd and 3rd gen cr 250 aluminum frame the 1st has widely been considered the worst by far of the 3. Of course the reference is that it can work and Ronnie shows it. I liked my 01 cr way better than a 97-99. The 2002-2007 handled excellent and miles better than 1st gen. That’s my opinion and lots agree. You are one of the few who like a 1st gen alum cr. 

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Whatever.. That’s only in your head. I could think that the bike is worth more.  He beat you and he’s happy riding his old  bike and beating you with his much cheaper bike. Honestly what makes the 2019 ktm you want better than your 2018? What makes your 2018 better than a  125 say 5 or 10 years older? Especially after doing the suspension? Honestly to me one of the greatest handling bikes is a setup 2005-2007 Honda cr 250 r . It’s an old bike and not made anymore. So what? It’s still a great bike . In the 125 class I think bikes are all pretty good including old 125’s . It’s setup. You can hold your expensive value on the newest bike. To each their own. 
I never once said I needed a 19 ,I never once said it's going to make any difference , your very confused about the point if the thread even though I have stated ,restated ,and had others try to help state the point of the thread

It's really worrying that the point of the thread is beyond so many people

You only have a bike industry if you have buyers from the top of the market to the bottom , think of a housing market , yes they do adjust and compensate,but only after a period of pain for certain groups , and that's assuming USA don't put huge tariffs on euro bikes , if they do KTM etc. could go bust ! No gp teams etc

Maybe the title is confusing people and they can't get past it ?

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how many years after 2006 did it take KTM to market a 250 2 stroke that was as good as a YZ250 ?........a bunch.....there are a few truths in dirt bikes :  virtuially none of us are as good as the bike,,,,,,a faster bike just means getting on the brakes sooner.....most riders are just as fast on a well suspended 1996 cr250 as they are on a 2018 KTM250,,,,,,,all are over weight and over priced
if you're thinking about selling a bike because it is a year old and has less than 30 hours on it you don't need it. That used to be every month for a couple of bikes for us. I just rebuilt the bikes and kept going. We normally got 2 years out of a bike and it was race ready when I sold it. If you sell clapped out bikes around a local racing circuit you won't be able to sell many.
Bud you as well have missed the whole point I am making , please try to read past the title and read my comments

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