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My new bike bubble has burst

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15 hours ago, mog said:

Go away Wally your trying too hard ,it's a bit obvious and boring

Trying too hard?  WTH are you talking about?  Dude ride your bike and shut up.  AWW poor @mog can't trade in his current model year, sees more dust in the gay Raj than dirt, dirt bike.  Maybe you should spend more time riding than posting about riding.  Sad!

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14 hours ago, mog said:

Lol for the 1000th time it's not my situation that's the actual discussion point ,it's the fact a very expensive bike depreciates badly enough in one year that a 40 something ( target audience for new bikes ) says this is a joke !

Buy any newcar or truck and you lose thousands in depreciation as soon as you buy and drive off the lot. It’s the same for any dirt bike. It’s always been. :excuseme:

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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I've bought tons of used bikes,got badly burned

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Buy any newcar or truck and you lose thousands in depreciation as soon as you buy and drive off the lot. It’s the same for any dirt bike. It’s always been. :excuseme:
Nope you don't get it

It's always been bad , but now it's worse than the target group is willing to pay , you price yourself out the market

The fact they are running a sale already shows they know this

They put up the price in Oct by 400 ,now late Oct they have a sale knocking 600 off the price ,good planning or knee jerk reaction ?

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26 minutes ago, mog said:

Nope you don't get it

It's always been bad , but now it's worse than the target group is willing to pay , you price yourself out the market

The fact they are running a sale already shows they know this

They put up the price in Oct by 400 ,now late Oct they have a sale knocking 600 off the price ,good planning or knee jerk reaction ?

Sure I get it. In 1977 my Dad bought me the first year KTM 250 mc5. It cost $3000 when other bikes in it’s class went for under $2000.   Minimum wage was  $2.40 an hour.  No one needs to buy a more expensive bike and be competitive. Guys can buy a yz 250 new and go racing like way back when where my Dad could have bought a way cheaper japanese mx bike and go racing.  So what about the price of bikes. The price will adjust to whatever guys are willing to pay like it always has.  

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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Who cares anyway. We can run 10 and 20 and maybe more year old bikes setup right and still line up and race. You upset because of depreciation?Anyone can race a fixed up used bike and go racing. .. and win too. 

 

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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11 hours ago, mog said:

I've bought tons of used bikes,got badly burned

It’s hit or miss. I’ve bought a bunch of used bikes and got great deals and good bikes. Sometimes I would have done better with some though buying a new bike. When I was done redoing the bike I realized I could have just bought a new bike with the money spent.. for some bikes at least. Some used worked out good. Sometimes I saved thousands buying a year old bike with a grand worth of goodies on the bike too and already setup.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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23 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

It’s hit or miss. I’ve bought a bunch of used bikes and got great deals and good bikes. Sometimes I would have done better with some though buying a new bike. 

I've had very good luck with used bikes. A handful of them I got about what I spent on them when I eventually sold them. May have even made some $ off one of my wife's old bikes when I fixed it up. The depreciation thing won't really effect bikes that are quite a bit older at this point. I could likely sell my 05' YZ 250 for the same price I paid for it 4 years ago. I've easily spent twice it's worth over those 4 years than what I bought it for when you include the modifications, maintenance and tires. However, I just bought a brand new bike, and I don't expect those costs to go down at all, just more logical to make sure I keep this newer bike longer so I convince myself I got more of my $'s worth.

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I've bought tons of used bikes,got badly burned

Yes. In California with it’s ridiculous Red Sticker/Green Sticker registration nonsense, I’ve “invested” a lot of time and money in bikes 2002 and older in order to be able to ride year round. If you’re interested in your bike being in top shape (similar to new), it can easily cost close to or more than a new (Red Sticker) model to buy and rejuvenate. If California ever drops this idiotic registration nonsense I wouldn’t likely buy used again, with the exception of nearly indestructible Honda Air Cooled or rare Vintage bikes. Dirt bikes are commonly ridden hard and put away wet.

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4 minutes ago, motrock93b said:


Yes. In California with it’s ridiculous Red Sticker/Green Sticker registration nonsense, I’ve “invested” a lot of time and money in bikes 2002 and older in order to be able to ride year round. If you’re interested in your bike being in top shape (similar to new), it can easily cost close to or more than a new (Red Sticker) model. If California ever drops this idiotic registration nonsense I wouldn’t likely buy used again, with the exception of nearly indestructible Honda Air Cooled or rare Vintage bikes. Dirt bikes are commonly ridden hard and put away wet.

I used to live in various parts of Cali (Norcal and Socal) before I got into riding and loved the time I spent there. It was always a potential landing spot for me at retirement, but with the sticker laws I am almost leaning towards the Pacific Northwest if I don't retire in Hawaii. I'm wholeheartedly a 2 stroke guy and the Cali laws scare me.

Edited by TheTyLife
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If you don't have a new market you don't have a used market , I have learnt one thing from this thread ,people fix on the symptoms not the cause

 

To solve my problems I just go to the dealer ,put my card into the machine and buy a new bike ,that's not the ACTUAL PROBLEM !

 

The actual problem is OEM aim at 40 something people who bought bikes in there 20s and 30s and 40s ,if we no longer buy then the market pretty much collapses

 

But never mind

 

 

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Nope you don't get it  

It's always been bad , but now it's worse than the target group is willing to pay , you price yourself out the market

 

The fact they are running a sale already shows they know this

 

 

YOU decided it's worse than you are willing to pay, and somehow determined that YOU are the target group.

 

Are sales numbers actually down? Real data not anecdotal evidence.

 

Are new bike prices actually higher? From the little researching I did, once you factor inflation prices today are close, or even substantially cheaper than 10-20 years ago.

 

Bikes on markdown means little to nothing. I worked in dealers almost 20 years ago, there's always some promotion going on. Always. And typically changes each month (similar to auto dealers).

 

Decline in mx participation. I don't think that's a bike cost, track layout, etc thing. I think it's more a generation/society thing. Many younger people have zero interest in motorized toys. Look at how many kids don't care about getting a license. The world (and friends) are available instanly via electronics, so driving isn't the huge shot of freedom it was for previous generations. Disinterest in other motorized activities as well.

 

Mog, I generally like your posts, but this one just comes off as whining. From an outside view it sounds like you bought a bike and expected it to be worth a lot more than it is (in the worst season for selling, and not doing it yourself to make more). Then you blame the market, use all anecdotal evidece to support your claims (because you got a better deal on a Suzuki 13 years ago), and then claim that everyone out there must feel the same way you do.

 

Plenty of people are still willing to buy new bikes, whether or not you think it's reasonable. Sort of like people buying pickup trucks in droves over here, despite the average sale price topping $48,000 now. Most on the GMC lot here are high $40k to well into the 70's. Ridiculous to me, and I would think that's pricing most people out, but sales numbers climb....

 

 

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I just got a really nice 2012 KX450F for $2600. Previous owner spent the $$ on the extras and it's sprung and weighted for my size. As a newer rider it made sense to me. Cheap fun and this bike is fast.

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Adam if you read my posts you would see I bought new in 11, 16,17,18 , I can see and understand a trend, list price of 150 has gone up hugely just since 16 , inflation since 16 is guess what ? Low

It's not whining as I didn't really want a new bike , I was just curious

You could not buy a new car for the same price as a 125 20 years ago , inflation or no inflation

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The list prices for the last couple years 150sx:

'19 $7399

'18 $6999

'17 $6999

'16 $6899

'15 $6699

'14 $6599

 

That is a decent increase, but doesnt show me that sales are declining, if they were I doubt they would keep increasing the price. I have no idea what changes were made during those years either. I think ktms pricing isnt exactly a barometer of the indistry either, many of their bikes dont have mainstream competition. Where else can you buy a 150, a 300, a 350, etc?

 

I would be curious to see industry wide data on common models like the 250f, 450f.

 

I know where I live its hard to find a reasonably priced used ktm, most seem to go for only a little less than list price because no one sells them. Ive been looking for a 350xcf for about a year and I think Im giving up and buying a new one in the spring.

 

 Also 20 years ago there were at least 4 options to choose from in a 125, and it was one of the biggest sellers. Now you can have a yz or sx, and they arent the most popular anymore, not surprising the price is higher.

 

 

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So the 2 lots of data show bike prices recently much more than inflation ,thanks guys

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So the 2 lots of data show bike prices recently much more than inflation ,thanks guys
Sort of, thats one bike from one manufacturer. I mentioned why I thought that could be an outlier. You're reaching by saying "bike prices" based on that data.
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2 bikes 2 manufacturers,all ktms have risen a similar amount , I suspect if I showed you 10 ,you would want 20 ,if I showed you 20 you want 40 , at some point you might accept a 10% rise in price when inflation is 2.5 means it's a big increase ,with an actual worse senario when you sell,which is the point I have made all along ....

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