why are CR500's so much money?

[SteveThe Snakes]

The first lo boy frame in 89’ made much better power than the earlier models. 

 

[Singletrack_rider]

45 minutes ago, primerib108 said:

Whoops....realized I missed a year. I meant to say 85-87 were the meanest.

I was about to give you an earful about leaving the 85 off . When I bought my 1990 cr500 new I was actually a little disappointed. It definitely didn't have the bite of the 85. 

[RawbW]

13 hours ago, Motox367 said:

Thought about that to but..... have pretty badass 250 now cant see ot being any better for me. I think would make a better 500 

The 500 would be great, a little spendy to come by now. It would be awesome. I have 06 that runs, but I mean, it ain’t no 500 2t.

[DEATH_INC.]

Dyno sheet for cr500/crf450. not mine, don't know the full details but it gives you a fair idea what is going on...

and here's one for a 2000 KX500 vs 2011KXF450 just for comparison

Edited October 30, 2018 by DEATH_INC.

[Armbarn sailor]

Dyno sheet for cr500/crf450. not mine, don't know the full details but it gives you a fair idea what is going on...

and here's one for a 2000 KX500 vs 2011KXF450 just for comparison

450s are all making just a tick under 60hp, couple of them are making 60hp, stock, in 2018. I had plenty of cr500s, always wanted a kx500 because it had a powervalve, but the kx looks like a dinosaur with wheels and the cr500 was obviously 100% motocross racing. My 2016 yz450 stock was stronger in every way then a cr500.

[Armbarn sailor]

^ i just realized.....they dont even make cotton jerseys anymore!

[Sycamore]

20 hours ago, StevetheSnake said:

Not more off idle torque. It produces torque higher in the rpm than most 450-500cc 4T’s off idle. You have to use the clutch way more. 

I ride a 18’ KTM500 way easier to ride than the old CR500’s. Less weight tiny gas tank great mileage more torque and hp vibrates more than the Yamaha. But not nearly like a CR500. 

 

I thought about it some more and you might be right., at least with my free modded wr with a tweaked Tye Davis carb.  It barked off the bottom, actually too much.  It was fun and handy in certain circumstances but in others it was too much.  Then again the 500 had a tall first gear and that would act to tame it down vs the lower wr first gear.  dunno.

Dont know about the steel-e cr500 weight, I only had a service honda model and stock no gas or trail lard came in at 228lbs.  Dressed out it was 250.   I had a 14 450w and it was 15 to 20+ heavier. 

I had to rev it more to do what the CR would do which evidently has a gyro effect and made handling that weight more of a chore then the CR.  In tech, real tech the 450 had a fan and it kept things cool vs the CR which steamed, advantage KTM.  Without the fan it would have been the other way.  Also the KTM boiled its gas and I dont recall my CR ever doing that.  I smelled gas for 4 hours straight one ride.  Advantage CR.

The ktm 450 also vibrated pretty badly, not CR bad but it was annoying in my hands but mostly my feet.  My counter balanced 300 is WAY better there r.  Maybe the newer 4s ktms are better but I hear not.

Gas mileage.  I got 25mpg on mix of flow-e  and spot-e tech at an A race pace on my 450.  Not any more then my other 2 strokes but better then my cr500.  I recall getting 18=20.  My buds got slightly better at 21.

Torque, again, last I looked it wasnt even close.  

I think what types of trails you ride have a lot to do with what works for the individual.  For what I do a 4 stroke just doesnt cut it.  I like em, and kept telling myself I should have one in the quiver but it ended up a waste of money and space vs a cr500.  For others it is undoubtedly the opposite.   

 It's not nostalgia at all for me, they just work better for what I do.  Now if it was a cr500af vs a ktm 300w it's a different ball game.

 

[Sycamore]

1 hour ago, hondaman331 said:

450s are all making just a tick under 60hp, couple of them are making 60hp, stock, in 2018. I had plenty of cr500s, always wanted a kx500 because it had a powervalve, but the kx looks like a dinosaur with wheels and the cr500 was obviously 100% motocross racing. My 2016 yz450 stock was stronger in every way then a cr500.

NICE!  Look at the torque comparisons.  It's what I miss for sure.  Belting out buckets of it.  Non-CR riders always searching for more power, or better power, with heads, pipes, porting, on and on.  Some did on their CR500s but I was afraid to touch it.  I thought it was perfect.

To the OP, wanna know why they command so much money.  That is just one reason. ;) 

[Sycamore]

21 hours ago, hondaman331 said:

Got rid of my 450 and got a tx300. I think if it was the only bike made nobody would want anything different.

WOW, I'm shocked!  I recall you lovin that yam 450!  

[Armbarn sailor]

WOW, I'm shocked!  I recall you lovin that yam 450!  

I still do! The yz was the best 4 stroke i rode! But 4 strokes in general arent very good in sand or mud and the arc corner is old. 2 strokes can change lines whenever they want. I still have the yz, its on the market but if things work out i wouldnt let it get dusty if it stayed

[slotracer577]

I raced heads up agains 500's on pikes peak with my 426. The 500's were quicker off the line by a bike length or two, but the 426 easily walked around them on top end. On the dyno the 500's were about 50 hp and the 426 made 40 ish. Having ridden the 500's I was not a fan. Vibrated like a paint shaker and very abrupt power.

I much preferred the Ktm 380. Still more vibration than a 4-st, but a good mix of power and control. Almost bought one, but went to the dark side instead with a 426.

[DEATH_INC.]

18 hours ago, hondaman331 said:

450s are all making just a tick under 60hp, couple of them are making 60hp, stock, in 2018. My 2016 yz450 stock was stronger in every way then a cr500.

According to this 2019 dyno sheet (dirt bike), nope the 500's still have more torque. And at much lower rpm.

The 450's have top end hp, and a bigger spread of it.

Off idle the 500 will eat the 450. The 450 doesn't make 25 ft/lbs 'till 4500 rpm the 500 has been making 30+ since 3500 rpm.

And that's what it feels to ride them, instant power on the 500, with the 450 you wind into it, but it goes on a lot longer.

Of course this doesn't tell the full story, because you down gear the 450 to put it in the fat part of the power earlier and make use of the rpm.

It's kinda pointless arguing about it they're just different and I don't believe anyone in their right mind would buy a 20 year old bike to try to win pro-class races

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by DEATH_INC.

[Sycamore]

12 hours ago, DEATH_INC. said:

According to this 2019 dyno sheet (dirt bike), nope the 500's still have more torque. And at much lower rpm.

The 450's have top end hp, and a bigger spread of it.

Off idle the 500 will eat the 450. The 450 doesn't make 25 ft/lbs 'till 4500 rpm the 500 has been making 30+ since 3500 rpm.

And that's what it feels to ride them, instant power on the 500, with the 450 you wind into it, but it goes on a lot longer.

Of course this doesn't tell the full story, because you down gear the 450 to put it in the fat part of the power earlier and make use of the rpm.

It's kinda pointless arguing about it they're just different and I don't believe anyone in their right mind would buy a 20 year old bike to try to win pro-class races

 

Great post!  Yeah no one would sponsor a Pro on a 20 year old bike obviously.  Semi Pro for sure but no a bike sponsorship. lol  I did see a semi Pro on a YZ300 take the overall  a few years back on the tuffest course our series had to offer. That same race I came in 11th OA on my AF.  He got a KTM sponsorship not long after that.  Thinking bike outfits need to squash that news pretty quick.  lol

Still depending on the venue, an old CR500 rider who knows how to ride one could easily do well.  I never rode a steelie cr500 at length, my buds tell me they werent much or any faster on the AF framed ones.   

I dont get gew-e over past bikes, but I do miss that torque just not enough to go back to a CR again.  But that KTM conversion, ah, yeah.  Very strong possibility.   

[slotracer577]

Of course a 500 makes more torque. It has to in order to make the same hp as they don't rev nearly as high as a 450 4-st. Since hp = torque X rpm / 5240, if a 500 makes 50 hp at 6000 rpm and a 450 makes it at 10,000 the torque has to be different.

The problem with that argument is gearing and torque at the wheel. A 500 2-st has different gearing than a 450. I bet if you compare torque at the wheel they are pretty much the same. A better comparison would be a all gear run and plot the torque at the wheel. I think that would show that a 450 has a much broader spread of power and more.

[Sycamore]

17 hours ago, slotracer577 said:

Of course a 500 makes more torque. It has to in order to make the same hp as they don't rev nearly as high as a 450 4-st. Since hp = torque X rpm / 5240, if a 500 makes 50 hp at 6000 rpm and a 450 makes it at 10,000 the torque has to be different.

The problem with that argument is gearing and torque at the wheel. A 500 2-st has different gearing than a 450. I bet if you compare torque at the wheel they are pretty much the same. A better comparison would be a all gear run and plot the torque at the wheel. I think that would show that a 450 has a much broader spread of power and more.

I goes both ways, you could gear the 500 higher too.  The problem with that, at least for me and what I did with the bike, it made the already tall first gear worse.

   

Edited November 1, 2018 by Sycamore

[Singletrack_rider]

You guys have to quit comparing a CR500 to a modern 4st 450. Like I said you don't buy a 500cc 2st because it's the fastest most powerful bike. It's the cool factor, the nostalgia factor, the I have something you don't have bike. Go somewhere with a stock 450 and a CR500 and see which bike get the most attention. The 500 is a mystical beast everyone has heard about but few have actually experienced. If you can't understand why someone values one then you just don't get it and probably never will. 

[Sycamore]

1 hour ago, GreenMT_Rider said:

You guys have to quit comparing a CR500 to a modern 4st 450. Like I said you don't buy a 500cc 2st because it's the fastest most powerful bike. It's the cool factor, the nostalgia factor, the I have something you don't have bike. Go somewhere with a stock 450 and a CR500 and see which bike get the most attention. The 500 is a mystical beast everyone has heard about but few have actually experienced. If you can't understand why someone values one then you just don't get it and probably never will. 

I semi kind of agree.  It is it's own entity and i did take some pride in riding and racing it with some success when others said it wasnt competitive.  It wasnt nostalgia at all for me since I didnt ride one when they were popular or because they were popular long ago.  The bike worked, better for what I did then a 450 or any other bike.  The cool factor was just a bonus.

I think people have different reasons for liking them.  Yours, mine, and some just for economical reasons.  They are cheap to own since the motors last forever and you dont typically need power upgrades on them like a 250/300 or buying zillion dollar pipes on a 450 along with its maintenance.

[shimaze]

I am a guy that has both bikes in their garage right now, not a I remember when I was a… or none of that stuff -

All I can say is that I just bought a 2017 KTM 500 to replace my 2005 Honda CR500. After riding the KTM 4 stroke, there is simply no way in hell the KTM is even on the same planet as the CR500. Both bikes are +/- 500cc’s and even though the Honda has half the strokes of the KTM, the CR feels so much more powerful than the newer bike. When I crack or some say “blip” the throttle of the CR500, you can just feel the power of the 2 stroke engine. It wants to pull your arms out of your shoulder sockets, rip up the dirt, or point the front wheel to the sky. It is nothing like the KTM. 

The KTM is quiet, easy to control, and yes it is fast too. It accelerates quickly, but you really have to get on the throttle to get the front wheel up. The newer, more refined 4-stroke just doesn’t have the same sound or feel the old smoker has.  The CR500 is like riding a giant chainsaw whereas the KTM is like riding a motorcycle. The sound alone of the CR smoker is worth the price of admission. The crack pop of the engine makes me grin ear to ear, whereas the KTM only makes me smile.

The CR500 only has a kill switch while the KTM has a key, electric start, head light, tail light, and turn signals. The KTM has a license plate and is street legal whereas the CR500 doesn’t even have a kick stand. The biggest downfall of the CR500? It is an absolute bitch to start. I am 6’3” and I stand on a milk crate. After 20 or so kicks I am too tired to kick anymore and roll it back in the garage. A new and properly jetted carburetor would help it light off and a compression release would make the 20 or so kicks seem like two kicks even if kicking it barefooted. Not to mention saving the right side case from cracking when doing the cowboy kick. The KTM has a stupid little switch that makes starting the bike no big deal.

In addition to the problematic starting, the CR500 is dangerous. I consider myself an experienced rider. I have been riding motorcycles ever since I can remember. The CR500 is challenging and seemingly has a mind of its own. It can be ridden like any bike once the bike's behavior is learned and respected. But the power rush is intense and unpredictable. If you crack the throttle and stay in it, it can get out of hand real quick! I tried showing off a little and stood the bike straight up. Luckily I let off the throttle in time and the bike came back down on the front wheel instead of my backside. In contrast, I can roll on the throttle in second gear on the KTM and ride a wheelie out for 20 or so feet. On the KTM, I never feel like it is going get away from me. The 2-smoke is a different story altogether, twist the grip and hold on. It’s fun, but scary!

Of course there is the bragging rights that go along owning the “King”. When you are kicking the dirt and trying to top the other guy’s story, you are the winner as soon as you mention 500cc 2-stroke. Plus I like to argue that mine is a 2005 CR500 when everyone claims 2001 was the last year. They are right, but so am I. Mine is a genuine real deal Service Honda 
 

$7000

$5000

Is it worth the $$$ to buy a 13 year old dirt bike that smoke like freight train and has power from hell? The CR500 is not for everyone and there are better dirt bikes for less money. But you decide which on you like better? This 2005 Service Honda CR500AF costs $10,000 new and I thought about selling it for $5000. But after riding the KTM, I have decided to keep the Honda! 

Edited November 5, 2018 by shimaze

[Sycamore]

17 hours ago, shimaze said:

I am a guy that has both bikes in their garage right now, not a I remember when I was a… or none of that stuff -

All I can say is that I just bought a 2017 KTM 500 to replace my 2005 Honda CR500. After riding the KTM 4 stroke, there is simply no way in hell the KTM is even on the same planet as the CR500. Both bikes are +/- 500cc’s and even though the Honda has half the strokes of the KTM, the CR feels so much more powerful than the newer bike. When I crack or some say “blip” the throttle of the CR500, you can just feel the power of the 2 stroke engine. It wants to pull your arms out of your shoulder sockets, rip up the dirt, or point the front wheel to the sky. It is nothing like the KTM. 

The KTM is quiet, easy to control, and yes it is fast too. It accelerates quickly, but you really have to get on the throttle to get the front wheel up. The newer, more refined 4-stroke just doesn’t have the same sound or feel the old smoker has.  The CR500 is like riding a giant chainsaw whereas the KTM is like riding a motorcycle. The sound alone of the CR smoker is worth the price of admission. The crack pop of the engine makes me grin ear to ear, whereas the KTM only makes me smile.

The CR500 only has a kill switch while the KTM has a key, electric start, head light, tail light, and turn signals. The KTM has a license plate and is street legal whereas the CR500 doesn’t even have a kick stand. The biggest downfall of the CR500? It is an absolute bitch to start. I am 6’3” and I stand on a milk crate. After 20 or so kicks I am too tired to kick anymore and roll it back in the garage. A new and properly jetted carburetor would help it light off and a compression release would make the 20 or so kicks seem like two kicks even if kicking it barefooted. Not to mention saving the right side case from cracking when doing the cowboy kick. The KTM has a stupid little switch that makes starting the bike no big deal.

In addition to the problematic starting, the CR500 is dangerous. I consider myself an experienced rider. I have been riding motorcycles ever since I can remember. The CR500 is challenging and seemingly has a mind of its own. It can be ridden like any bike once the bike's behavior is learned and respected. But the power rush is intense and unpredictable. If you crack the throttle and stay in it, it can get out of hand real quick! I tried showing off a little and stood the bike straight up. Luckily I let off the throttle in time and the bike came back down on the front wheel instead of my backside. In contrast, I can roll on the throttle in second gear on the KTM and ride a wheelie out for 20 or so feet. On the KTM, I never feel like it is going get away from me. The 2-smoke is a different story altogether, twist the grip and hold on. It’s fun, but scary!

Of course there is the bragging rights that go along owning the “King”. When you are kicking the dirt and trying to top the other guy’s story, you are the winner as soon as you mention 500cc 2-stroke. Plus I like to argue that mine is a 2005 CR500 when everyone claims 2001 was the last year. They are right, but so am I. Mine is a genuine real deal Service Honda 
 

$7000

$5000

Is it worth the $$$ to buy a 13 year old dirt bike that smoke like freight train and has power from hell? The CR500 is not for everyone and there are better dirt bikes for less money. But you decide which on you like better? This 2005 Service Honda CR500AF costs $10,000 new and I thought about selling it for $5000. But after riding the KTM, I have decided to keep the Honda! 

Two great bikes to compliment each other.

I had a real deal 2003 CR500AF service honda too.

Do a youtube search on cr500 "the drill".  It shows you how to start the bike.  I recall three easy follow thru strokes of the kicker, get the piston top dead center and kick. Usually lights up first time.  I never ever had an issue starting my cr500 using "the drill"

edit: found it for you:

I used to ride a lot with this guy, he taught me a lot about the cr500.  Probably one of the best cr500 riders around.  Back in 2004 or so he came in 2nd  OA 40A expert class in the National enduro series in AZ.  Back when they were TUFF!  The next race was in California and he came in 1st.  When people say they arent a great trail bike or tech-e race bike I have to chuckle.  For most that is true I suppose.  It's a bike you really have to master and some never get it.

[6bt]

Here's my take. I'm a 34 year old play/trail rider. I've been on 2 wheels since I was 12.

I noticed the prices creeping up 5 years ago. Bought a pretty clean 01 kx500 for $1800, next a 92' cr500 for $2100. Sold the cr this year, when I found a very nice 01 cr500. Paid $4500 for it, but it's clean, came with extras and paperwork.

Part of the reason I bought them was for investment. I see the prices creeping up. I won't have them forever, but I definitely see owning them for the next 30 years.

Plus they're cool as hell! How many bikes can you ride, where you have to carefully twist the throttle with good judgement?

I wasn't allowed to own one when I lived with my parents. My dad knew what was up. He did figure out my "lt250r" had an Awfully big cylinder on it though.

I think all the steelies getting chopped up is a shame though. Somebodies homemade AF swap isn't worth much to anyone other than the builder.

500 2 strokes are hammers. They run for a long time, longer then a 450 MX bike. No where near the maintenance. If you blow one up, usually it's clean the base out, bore up to the next size, and your back in business. Catastrophic failures on 4 strokes is quite common. Sometimes all you can save is the clutch/transmission.

Ergos..I love the 80s ergos. My 01' feels like my 88' cr250.

To me, clean 01's seem to bring the most money. It seems 80s bikes bring anywhere from 1500-3000. 98-01's seem to bring the biggest bucks, 01 in particular..last year. Took me 2 months to get $2800 for my 92 in good shape. A flipper from Florida bought it, tried to flip it..don't think he got any more than $2800 for it.

My 2 cents.