Jump to content
Get that dancing monkey off your back! Read more... ×

Do you want to see the inside of a busted starter? (Pics)

Recommended Posts

2017 500 RR-S.  

Starter was reported as shorted internally.  Now I know why.  It seems that magnets line the inside of the body of the starter housing.  Somehow the magnets broke off from the housing and stopped the starter from turning.  I had found it odd when I had first tried to turn the splined output shaft with my fingers, turned it just a bit and it stopped and when I put a cloth over the spline and turned it with a wrench(thinking that the starter might be rebuilt with the $40 rebuild kit from Beta, I could salvage the starter for future use) there was lots of grinding and locking up. There is NO salvaging this starter, it is junk.   

The starter comes apart very easily with just 2 bolts holding it all together.  

I have no idea why the magnets decided to come loose.  I also know that because there was no damage or wear to the output shaft splines, all the times I had tried to start the bike even though it was already running, that those splines don't get damaged when they go to turn the starter gear.  I also know why, when my starter was working intermittently, it was because the magnets that were all ground up into different sized pieces, were stopping the the starter from turning and that no matter how many volts/amps I was putting to the system to try and get the bike started, with all the magnets jamming up the starter, there was no way to get it to turn.  I also know it is why the new battery I had was draining so quickly, due to all the amps being forced into the system.  I'm surprised that there was nothing else that fried on the bike but as the starter(relay) is fused, I did find the 10A fuse blown one time.  

That it happened along with the fuel pump relay corrosion, causing it to not work was also stopping me from kickstarting the bike.  Both of the issues happening together was a real goocher.  It now explains why, at times, the starter would work and at other times over the course of a few days, it wouldn't as the magnets were getting all ground up where they live and sometimes they would free up and allow the starter to turn until they ground up enough to not let the shaft spin.  

At least now I know that the next time I start having an intermittent start condition I can easily take the starter off and take it apart to see if the magnets have started to come apart on the inside.  I just hope that this is not a factory defect in the starter and the glue/epoxy-whatever the stuff is that holds the magnets to the inside of the starter, that, over time, they just come loose and the starters just won't turn and all the jump packs are NOT going to help in getting the bike to run, especially when one has no kickstarter.  I will NOT be taking the kickstarter off my bike as it has saved me at least twice in the past couple of months with getting my bike started.  

I hate being(one of) the first for this to happen to, especially as Beta has come out and even removed the kickstarters completely from the 2018+ bikes. Unless it was somehow my fault that the starter had failed from either the times I spun the starter when the engine was already running, or, when it was crazy cold last winter and I would try starting the bike several times when it was cold but the bike would not start and maybe, just maybe, it was causing the starter to get hot???-then weakening the adhesive that holds the magnets to the inside of the starter body, but I simply won't make those mistakes again-though I can't promise I won't hit the starter button to try and start the bike when I want to kill it but I very much doubt that this would do anything bad to the starter, but I will just jump-pack the bike in the cold from here on out so I don't/won't have to keep trying to start it on the e-starter so as not to stress it at all and eliminate any chance of me overheating the starter.  

 

 

 

P1140340.JPG

P1140341.JPG

P1140342.JPG

P1140343.JPG

Edited by Ben500RR-S
  • Like 3
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That will pretty much do it 😮

Good write up and investigative work.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the magnets come loose on the starter of my 17' 300. relay would click and draw on battery down quickly.

After several hours of investigation,frustration,I removed and disassembled the starter. while I was waiting for the new starter to arrive, I decided to epoxy the magnets back in. Bench tested the old one and it worked. It is now on the shelf as a back up.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MarantzManiac said:

Ben.... I don't care what Kran says about you.... you're alright! 😁

 

 

 

Ha!, thanks.   I'm doing my best to help my fellow Beta owners/riders.  I also hope that no one else's starter grinds to a halt like mine did although, provided that one has no corroded/compromised connections that would otherwise stop the bike from starting, a push/roll kickstart will/should-get one's bike going again should the/a starter fail like mine did.  

 

What has The Kran been saying about me?  Why I aught-a . . . I like The Kran, he is a helpful guy.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ben....glad you resolved the problem...same thing happened to me,,,Sent you a reply on Oct 2 (to call or not to call) with reference to my same starter issue...

 

Enjoy the RIDE!

  • Like 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Takodiver said:

Hi Ben....glad you resolved the problem...same thing happened to me,,,Sent you a reply on Oct 2 (to call or not to call) with reference to my same starter issue...

 

Enjoy the RIDE!

You did mention this thread here:  

 

The magnets inside my starter look all chewed up/freed from the starter housing, just like the one in the pic.  It was from a 2017 300 RR.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the backup kick starter is a must have. In the real world I have found several ways to unintentionally disable the starter. My new 200 will have one installed before I pick it up! along with all the oil injection stuff removed as well!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YUP, thats the pix from my starter. Sent HDR the photos to post on Oldman's thread in hopes that it would help him diagnose his problem. Wasn't a contributing member of thumpertalk until recently...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe vibration.  Think about it, the starter actually sees little run time, but is constantly subjected to engine vibration.  I take mine down and clean/inspect every winter, changed brushes once, so far so good @ close to 400 hrs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heat gets to the epoxy. Case gets very hot while cranking, even with the starter removed with no load.  Looking at your pic s and magnet type, im guessing a poor quality starter also. A china clone might be better. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MarantzManiac said:

Ben.... I don't care what Kran says about you.... you're alright! 😁

 

 

 

He's expired.

1 hour ago, highmarker said:

Heat gets to the epoxy. Case gets very hot while cranking, even with the starter removed with no load.  Looking at your pic s and magnet type, im guessing a poor quality starter also. A china clone might be better. 

Actually OEM ones are Mitsuba. 

Made in Japan. 

I think so..  

Edited by dirtbird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ben500RR-S said:

The starter is a Mitsuba.  

Ferrite magnets are on the low end stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, highmarker said:

Heat gets to the epoxy. Case gets very hot while cranking, even with the starter removed with no load.  Looking at your pic s and magnet type, im guessing a poor quality starter also. A china clone might be better. 

In the winter, I put an engine jacket around the motor-for snowbike duty.  If we don't wrap the engines, snow will pack up all around the engine and it will run too cold.  I can only imagine that while the engine is running at up to 200-220 F, as there is not much airflow around the starter and despite it being below or even well below freezing, the area where the starter lives on my 4S stays hot for long periods of time.  

Now I'll be wondering when the next starter goes bad and if a bad batch of the things are now out in the field.   

1 minute ago, highmarker said:

Ferrite magnets are on the low end stuff.

Is there even another starter  that will bolt right up to our bikes?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

2017 500 RR-S.  

Starter was reported as shorted internally.  Now I know why.  It seems that magnets line the inside of the body of the starter housing.  Somehow the magnets broke off from the housing and stopped the starter from turning.  I had found it odd when I had first tried to turn the splined output shaft with my fingers, turned it just a bit and it stopped and when I put a cloth over the spline and turned it with a wrench(thinking that the starter might be rebuilt with the $40 rebuild kit from Beta, I could salvage the starter for future use) there was lots of grinding and locking up. There is NO salvaging this starter, it is junk.   

The starter comes apart very easily with just 2 bolts holding it all together.  

I have no idea why the magnets decided to come loose.  I also know that because there was no damage or wear to the output shaft splines, all the times I had tried to start the bike even though it was already running, that those splines don't get damaged when they go to turn the starter gear.  I also know why, when my starter was working intermittently, it was because the magnets that were all ground up into different sized pieces, were stopping the the starter from turning and that no matter how many volts/amps I was putting to the system to try and get the bike started, with all the magnets jamming up the starter, there was no way to get it to turn.  I also know it is why the new battery I had was draining so quickly, due to all the amps being forced into the system.  I'm surprised that there was nothing else that fried on the bike but as the starter(relay) is fused, I did find the 10A fuse blown one time.  

That it happened along with the fuel pump relay corrosion, causing it to not work was also stopping me from kickstarting the bike.  Both of the issues happening together was a real goocher.  It now explains why, at times, the starter would work and at other times over the course of a few days, it wouldn't as the magnets were getting all ground up where they live and sometimes they would free up and allow the starter to turn until they ground up enough to not let the shaft spin.  

At least now I know that the next time I start having an intermittent start condition I can easily take the starter off and take it apart to see if the magnets have started to come apart on the inside.  I just hope that this is not a factory defect in the starter and the glue/epoxy-whatever the stuff is that holds the magnets to the inside of the starter, that, over time, they just come loose and the starters just won't turn and all the jump packs are NOT going to help in getting the bike to run, especially when one has no kickstarter.  I will NOT be taking the kickstarter off my bike as it has saved me at least twice in the past couple of months with getting my bike started.  

I hate being(one of) the first for this to happen to, especially as Beta has come out and even removed the kickstarters completely from the 2018+ bikes. Unless it was somehow my fault that the starter had failed from either the times I spun the starter when the engine was already running, or, when it was crazy cold last winter and I would try starting the bike several times when it was cold but the bike would not start and maybe, just maybe, it was causing the starter to get hot???-then weakening the adhesive that holds the magnets to the inside of the starter body, but I simply won't make those mistakes again-though I can't promise I won't hit the starter button to try and start the bike when I want to kill it but I very much doubt that this would do anything bad to the starter, but I will just jump-pack the bike in the cold from here on out so I don't/won't have to keep trying to start it on the e-starter so as not to stress it at all and eliminate any chance of me overheating the starter.  

 

 

 

P1140340.JPG

P1140341.JPG

P1140342.JPG

P1140343.JPG

When I had the exact same starter failure on my 17  300RR I was at 235hrs.  Do you know the hrs on yours??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, oldman said:

When I had the exact same starter failure on my 17  300RR I was at 235hrs.  Do you know the hrs on yours??

I'm at 3,200 miles and 172 hours.  It seems that the problem is not a 4S or 2S problem but rather just a starter problem.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been having issues starting my 2015 250rr and started looking for possible causes and solutions, came across this post and prepared myself for the worst. It would start fine at times then nothing (usually when I needed it the most lol). Battery seemed normal when hooked up to my charger read properly with the correct voltage. It was suggested I oil my bendix (probably still need too.) After today's ride I was pulling my air filter to clean it and noticed blue/green liquid in the bottom of mY airbox. turns out my battery had busted its seal and was leaking down into my airbox. Tusk Battery was only 7 months old.20181017_163823.jpeg20181017_163836.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also check the wire running to the starter that goes under the case. It can wear the insulation off and ground out. Can't remember who brought it up. I checked it and damn they were correct. New shrink wrap and good to go.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:


×