KTM 2017 350EXC-F Clutch problem

[Asen Angelov]

Hello guys

I have the following problem with my clutch.My bike has around 60 hours.I can't start it in first gear and when the bike is cold I start it in neutral and when I put it in first the engine stall.When I start it again and put it in first the bike tries to go and when the bike is hot it has some dragging to it.So I've opened the clutch to check the clutch plates and here are some pictures.I didn't have the tool to open and check the clutch basket if there was some wear.A friend of mine change the clutch plates around 150 hr. and they didn't look that bad to be honest.Where do you think my problem might be coming from?

Edited October 19, 2018 by Asen Angelov

[Spud786]

They look awful dirty to me , are they oem?      Wont touch aftermarket

A clean pack wouldn't hurt.

I run Dino oil on a 800+ hour clutch power wheelie with tall gearing all the time, which puts a heavy load on the clutch, If it was going to have slippage issues, it would show. Keep the slave fluid clean

Theres a few variables, from oil , to slave condition , to your dirty plates, all or any could be playing a role.

I do recommend on a cold motor to squeeze your clutch multiple times before popping into gear as a routine, this gets the plates separating and getting fresh oil in between them, for the first drop into gear.

your clutch may be running excessively hot and the oil , is dumping its extreme pressure additives. But your plates look crusty and filmed up to me.

 

[Asen Angelov]

3 minutes ago, Spud786 said:

They look awful dirty to me , are they oem?      Wont touch aftermarket

A clean pack wouldn't hurt.

I run Dino oil on a 800+ hour clutch power wheelie with tall gearing all the time, which puts a heavy load on the clutch, If it was going to have slippage issues, it would show. Keep the slave fluid clean

Theres a few variables, from oil , to slave condition , to your dirty plates, all or any could be playing a role.

I do recommend on a cold motor to squeeze your clutch multiple times before popping into gear as a routine, this gets the plates separating and getting fresh oil in between them, for the first drop into gear.

your clutch may be running excessively hot and the oil , is dumping its extreme pressure additives. But your plates look crusty and filmed up to me.

 

Yes there are oem that's the first time I've opened the clutch since I bought the bike

[SteveThe Snakes]

Just did it on my 500. When the metal plates get overheated from slipping the clutch they blue and warp. When they warp the clutch doesn’t release well. On mine it was the inner plates the two on the outside were not blued. But I replaced all of the metal plates. 

If you don’t slip your clutch as bad they will last longer. 

[Dirtbug26]

Check the basket for notches, if it has them smooth them out or replace. The plates may be warped, check them for flatness, replace if bad. 

[SteveThe Snakes]

You can see the metal plates are blued and warped. The blueing is on the edges the warping is the shiney spots on the plates. 

Its normally not notches on the baskets. Still haven’t replaced the basket or inner on my 07’ WR450. It’s been through hell from me and two grown up kids. But three sets of warped metal plates. 

[Asen Angelov]

I’m going to order new plates and replace them.

[Spud786]

35 minutes ago, Asen Angelov said:

I’m going to order new plates and replace them.

Whats the difference between your and your friends ride, since his plate condition was much better, with more than double the time?

I can understand if running full throttle and slipping the clutch intentionally, can produce abusive results, but out of a couple dosen mx bikes, where slipping the clutch out of every corner under power is the norm, Ive not seen any plates that bad, with burnt oil contamination.

But maybe its a DDS thing under an abusive situation, such as huge hill climbs and slipping the clutch under heavy throttle , are you doing these things?

I don't slip the clutch too often under power on my 500(just sometimes), as its a 500 LOL, but not had any longterm issues.

So Im just wondering you and your friends clutch use differnces, and may be even fluids?

 

 

This guy has 163 hours and does mountainous terrain, this looks pretty normal to me on expectation, in case you haven't seen it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Spud786

[Asen Angelov]

My friends bike is a 250exc f so he clutch slips a lot more especially on huge hill climbs so I don’t think this is due to clutch slipping.About the fluid I’m not sure what he is using.Im still wondering where the problem may occurred and why there is so much burned oil contamination

[SteveThe Snakes]

Personally I don’t see oil contamination. The plates are blued from too much heat, the whole metal was blued then it warped you can see your wiping the blued away from riding. The high spots are the cleaned areas on the plates. There are lots and lots of uphill single track trails I know of with rocks and roots that causes people to slip clutch’s. Especially on a 250 - 350. 

This was last Sunday’s ride. It doesn’t show but it’s quite steep with step ups holes dug and roots. You have to slip the clutch. The two riders in front of me pushed and spun and slipped and pushed and dug holes. ?

 

[SteveThe Snakes]

The outside edges of your metals show the blued tale. That’s what the whole plate looked like and you are wearing the color off from riding. Just because your buddy’s lasted longer doesn’t mean he just keep using warped plates or you don’t slip the clutch more than he does. It happens. 

Your plates are severely blued. 

[Asen Angelov]

I’m going to order a new kit.Im just curious is it worth to get a Hinson plates kit or to get oem?

 

[travertt]

I ride a 2012 350 XCF-W....LOTS of clutch feathering all the time....we ride all nasty technical slippery/muddy/gnarly/rutted stuff...the clutch gets a real workout every ride.

After 210 hours, my clutch pack is in perfect condition....no bluing on the steels at all, no visible wear on the friction plates....I know this cause I changed the clutch rubbers last year...and they were also in perfect condition.

So, in my humble opinion you have some sort of issue. You are either using the wrong oil, your setup is incorrect or you have a "clutch usage" problem. By this I mean that maybe you are unwittingly/unknowingly slipping your clutch constantly or something like that.  The clutch pack on that bike is very robust, and should have no real sign of wear after only 60 hours unless something is wrong.

I would suggest a new clutch pack (make sure you soak the new plates in oil for at least 15 minutes before you install), and after you install it....very carefully go over your setup.  IE is your lever set up properly so that the clutch fully disengages when you release it....or is it not quite fully released and you are slipping constantly....are your hydraulic lines completely free of air etc etc.

Also be very mindful of your riding style when you go out...IE are your fingers always on the clutch lever and perhaps pulling on the lever a bit when you really should be fully disengaged etc etc.  There are people out there who tend to drag their rear brake all the time that need to "unlearn" this behavior.

You have an issue...you just need to find it.

Also....it is normal for a KTM clutch to "stick" a little bit when you first put it into gear when starting a cold engine.  What I do when I head out on a cold bike is work the clutch lever a few times and then give it a tiny bit of throttle when I first put a cold engine into gear. This breaks the clutch plates free of each other and prevents you from stalling. You should only have to do this (give it a bit of throttle) in a cold engine situation.  If you need to do it constantly...then you have an issue.

 

[Asen Angelov]

One other thing I found is when I’m riding and I put it in first gear and the clutch is pulled all the way in the revs stay quit high I don t know if that a thing because that’s my first ktm bike but I think that shouldn’t be like that

[SteveThe Snakes]

4 hours ago, Asen Angelov said:

I’m going to order a new kit.Im just curious is it worth to get a Hinson plates kit or to get oem?

 

Stock the Hinson are no better I’ve gone through both on the built WR’s. You likely only need the inside metal plates. Look at both inside and outside metals if they are not blue on the edges you don’t need them. I think I spent $70. at Rocky Mountain ATV and they stocked them. 

[SteveThe Snakes]

2 hours ago, travertt said:

I ride a 2012 350 XCF-W....LOTS of clutch feathering all the time....we ride all nasty technical slippery/muddy/gnarly/rutted stuff...the clutch gets a real workout every ride

Feathering the clutch doesn’t blue and warp the metals. It’s going up extremely steep stuff where you have to be in a higher gear to make it. Then needing to slip the clutch to try not to overly slip the rear wheel that can warp them along with monster hill climbs. 

Not knowing how to feather the clutch in normal stuff can also ruin them or just slipping it in higher gears for no reason will finish them. ?

[travertt]

Quote

One other thing I found is when I’m riding and I put it in first gear and the clutch is pulled all the way in the revs stay quit high I don t know if that a thing because that’s my first ktm bike but I think that shouldn’t be like that

Well...its possible that you may not be used to the high idle on these bikes, so what you hear as high engine revs, is just the high idle (around 2,100 rpms. Or is possible, but unlikely, that the air intake plate in your throttle body is sticky for some reason.

However, this symptom is also consistent with the idea that your clutch plates are not fully releasing  properly under certain scenarios..  So, sticking with one issue at a time, check your lever adjuster.

If your clutch lever does not fully release pressure on the clutch pack when you let go of the lever...your clutch can slip while you're riding..this creates slippage/friction/excessive heat.

Alternatively, if your clutch lever does not fully apply pressure to the clutch pack when you have it pulled all the way in, then you are again creating slippage in the clutch pack (as opposed to complete disengagement) and therefor friction and heat again.

Same thing applies to air in the hydraulic line....if there is air in the line you may not be fully disengaging the clutch pack when you pull on the lever because even though the lever may travel the full amount , the air in the line does not allow full hydraulic  pressure to be created on the clutch pack....so its not disengaging fully..more slippage/friction heat.

 

Put in a new clutch pack, check your setup go for a ride and carefully monitor what is happening.

If you have a slippage situation (insufficient pressure on the clutch pack)...you should be able to tell by riding uphill under heavy throttle...does your clutch slip???...do the engine revs increase with no increase in speed?

If you have a lack of disengagement...then, while riding, your revs will stay high (or only slowly come down) when you pull the clutch in....or you will have trouble smoothly shifting or engaging first gear from neutral.

Let us know what happens.

 

 

[travertt]

Quote

Feathering the clutch doesn’t blue and warp the metals. It’s going up extremely steep stuff where you have to be in a higher gear to make it. Then needing to slip the clutch to try not to overly slip the rear wheel that can warp them along with monster hill climbs.  

Well, first...I never said it would cause blueing/warping...that's your reference.

Second...we do have a few good hills (usually wet, with mud and rocks)...none of them overly long I will admit....but we always need to go up one gear high to reduce wheel spin and maintain control...and this always needs constant slipping of the clutch during the climb.  So I'm sticking to my position that constant feathering through long extended mud wallows and quite long uphill rock gardens as well as occasional rocky hill climbs does create a fair amount of heat and does tax the clutch pack.

But I think you're missing the point...my example was just by way of illustration that the clutches on these bikes are fairly robust and that therefore the OP likely has a real problem somewhere (unless he's a serious hill climber, which does not seem to be the case) and that it could be in lever positioning/setup...or in clutching "style".

Just trying to help the OP with what knowledge I have.

[Spud786]

Chicken or the Egg.  BTW , I had to look up where the Canary islands are, off the west coast of Africa, so the OP is from a very unique place.

Look at these pics, this is burnt oil contamination for what ever reason. Ive actually seen blued motor cycle plates, that were actually blue from heat , yet fairly clean and free from burnt oil.

This same signature of burnt oil, exists on the op's plates, for what ever reason.

 

[SteveThe Snakes]

1 hour ago, Spud786 said:

Chicken or the Egg.  BTW , I had to look up where the Canary islands are, off the west coast of Africa, so the OP is from a very unique place.

Look at these pics, this is burnt oil contamination for what ever reason. Ive actually seen blued motor cycle plates, that were actually blue from heat , yet fairly clean and free from burnt oil.

This same signature of burnt oil, exists on the op's plates, for what ever reason.

 

Those plates are an oil problem. But the OP plates didn’t look like that. My plates out of my 18’ 500 looked like the OP plates. Completely blued on the edges from overheating. The plates in your picture don’t look blued it looks like burnt oil.