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Measuring chain wear

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13 hours ago, JoeRC51 said:

Silicone isn't a good lubricant for the application , if you want to try a dry lube try a Teflon spray.

Grinding compound? Maxima Chain Wax: "I used it on a bicycle chain for an entire commuting season and at first I thought it was great but after breaking the bike down for it's winter tune up I see that there is a lot more wear on the chain, cassette and derailleur pulleys than with other lubricants I've used. This lubricant is very sticky and sand and debris end up practically glued to everything that's been sprayed." - Amazon review

^^^ This is really interesting because the guy is actually doing a comparison.

So I have a can of Dupont Chain Saver with Teflon... and it is "Wax-Based" -- so in dry dirt riding is it going to make more grinding compound?

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Chain-Saver-Self-Cleaning-Lubricant/dp/B00KMMFE8Y

Comparison video below by a street rider. 0:28 Castrol, 1:45 Maxima, 2:39 DuPont. Couple of notes: 

- Castrol is the best of all three but more expensive, defective cans

- Maxima Chain Wax not as good but cheaper than Castrol, easiest to use. Recommended for those who want to do maintenance less frequently.

- Dupont is superior for keeping off dirt, and has less rolling resistance. But doesn't last very long, especially in wet conditions. Must let it dry for 30 mins at least. Cheapest of the three. Recommended for those who don't mind maintaining chain frequently.

Why might Dupont retain less dirt? Patent 5472625: “After application and evaporation of the solvent the composite dry lubricant exhibits good penetration and load bearing properties without the dirt-retaining character of greases. The undissolved particles of soap combine with dirt particles to break-down portions of the lubricant into a dry flaky dust which is sloughed off the mechanism.”

So maybe cleaner than Maxima Chain Wax. Thinking I will give Dupont a try.

 

Edited by RedMesa
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A carpenter's tape measure is quicker and better than using a caliper for measuring, because it averages measurement over a longer length of chain.   99% of dirt bikes use 5xx chain, which is exactly 5/8 inch pin-to-pin.   Which means 24 links is 15.000 inches on a new chain.   Over 24 links, 1/8 inch 'growth' in length indicates .8% wear.    That's a good limit to use as a guide for chain replacement.   Put the bike on a stand with rear wheel off the ground, put it in gear, apply backwards rotation on the rear wheel to tension the top run of chain, measure as above.  Hint:  Hook the tape at the front edge of an outside link, measure to the front edge of the 13th outside link back.  Anything over 15 and 1/8 inch is bad.

 

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7 minutes ago, danfarson said:

A carpenter's tape measure is quicker and better than using a caliper for measuring, because it averages measurement over a longer length of chain.   99% of dirt bikes use 5xx chain, which is exactly 5/8 inch pin-to-pin.   Which means 24 links is 15.000 inches on a new chain.   Over 24 links, 1/8 inch 'growth' in length indicates .8% wear.    That's a good limit to use as a guide for chain replacement.   Put the bike on a stand with rear wheel off the ground, put it in gear, apply backwards rotation on the rear wheel to tension the top run of chain, measure as above.  Hint:  Hook the tape at the front edge of an outside link, measure to the front edge of the 13th outside link back.  Anything over 15 and 1/8 inch is bad.

Very good! But 0.8% wear limit? I have a mountain bike chain gauge and IIRC the two limits are 0.5 and 0.8%.

But this guy says 2% for motos http://www.thumpertalk.com/wiki/_/when-do-you-change-your-chain-r368

Getting a lot of great material in this thread. Thanks to all for contributing. I am putting a lot of it in the Shop Notebook http://bit.ly/2D9Delc

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58 minutes ago, danfarson said:

A carpenter's tape measure is quicker and better than using a caliper for measuring, because it averages measurement over a longer length of chain.   99% of dirt bikes use 5xx chain, which is exactly 5/8 inch pin-to-pin.   Which means 24 links is 15.000 inches on a new chain.   Over 24 links, 1/8 inch 'growth' in length indicates .8% wear.    That's a good limit to use as a guide for chain replacement.   Put the bike on a stand with rear wheel off the ground, put it in gear, apply backwards rotation on the rear wheel to tension the top run of chain, measure as above.  Hint:  Hook the tape at the front edge of an outside link, measure to the front edge of the 13th outside link back.  Anything over 15 and 1/8 inch is bad.

 

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 The KDX200 shop manual recommends this method. Standard length 317.5 - 318.2mm. Service limit 323mm. *(non o-ring chain)

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9 minutes ago, firsthere said:

 The KDX200 shop manual recommends this method. Standard length 317.5 - 318.2mm. Service limit 323mm. *(non o-ring chain)

323.0 minus 318.2 is 4.8 mm 'growth'.   Which is VERY close to 3/16 inch (4.76 mm).   Therefore, you could use 15 and 3/16 inch instead of 15 and 1/8 inch as the limit.   I don't know about you, but I don't have any metric tape measures laying around.

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14 hours ago, somethingnuw said:

Cause I’m an idiot and don’t know what your talking about, can you give me a name n where it’s commonly found so I can try some? Then next year if I like it I’ll pass the info off on other posts like a pro! Thanks

Oh now, just not in command of English quite yet, ehh.😉 ( me neither) If you have a Walmart up there, look for CRC Heavy Duty Silicone spray in automotive $2.28 US.

My understanding is silicone is recommended for o-rings and won't break down rubber like petroleum/oil based lubes, also repels water. I have a 15 year old can of Maxima Chain Wax in the garage and it says "Silicone Free"  on the label which is somewhat confusing. Maybe JoeRc will comment on this.

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I forget the name of the tour operator in Baja, but some years back there was a guy with a fleet of DRZs and he beat them to death.  Chain maintenance was simple.  After each ride when the chain was hot, he would spray and brush down the chains with WD40.  Period. That's all he ever did.  Most chain failures are due to alignment issues.  If new hi tech lubricants provide you an edge in confidence then by all means do it, but just make sure that your chain is aligned or it will all be for nothing.

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10 minutes ago, tiemann1 said:

I forget the name of the tour operator in Baja, but some years back there was a guy with a fleet of DRZs and he beat them to death.  Chain maintenance was simple.  After each ride when the chain was hot, he would spray and brush down the chains with WD40.  Period. That's all he ever did.  Most chain failures are due to alignment issues.  If new hi tech lubricants provide you an edge in confidence then by all means do it, but just make sure that your chain is aligned or it will all be for nothing.

Most chain failures I’ve seen are due to the master link clip poping off and loosing a chain. It happened to my supermoto bike on the street and my other WR450 my son put a cheep RMATV Primary drive brand chain on. Going through rocks can also derail a loose chain. So initial alignment wasn’t the problem. 

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As a Boy Scout ye'd carry compact breaker tool and some extry chain in ye backpack to be prepared for broken regular links on trail out in the Jillikins?

Edited by BSAVictor
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7 hours ago, StevetheSnake said:

Most chain failures I’ve seen are due to the master link clip poping off and loosing a chain. It happened to my supermoto bike on the street and my other WR450 my son put a cheep RMATV Primary drive brand chain on. Going through rocks can also derail a loose chain. 

I've seen chain failures and all of them were due to improper adjustment, worn out, or worn sprockets. Personally never had a chain failure since starting riding in 1970. Also I saw Chris Bachs riveted on chain break twice at GNCC  races. Shame on Johnny for using them. It cost his rider a great finish.

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6 minutes ago, Tbahr said:

I've seen chain failures and all of them were due to improper adjustment, worn out, or worn sprockets. Personally never had a chain failure since starting riding in 1970. Also I saw Chris Bachs riveted on chain break twice at GNCC  races. Shame on Johnny for using them. It cost his rider a great finish.

Maybe you can show or tell us how a riveted chain breaks twice and why a clip would be better. 

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4 minutes ago, StevetheSnake said:

Maybe you can show or tell us how a riveted chain breaks twice and why a clip would be better

I just put a new o-ring chain on my XR650L it's been on there for 5 yrs with the same rear sprocket and 1 new countershaft sprocket. I'll take a couple pics and post em up tomorrow. I adjusted that chain twice. I run o-ring chains on all my bikes. Also replaced the worn out chain guide. Good chain maintenance is all about visual inspection. Great subject. BTW

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Like I was saying, it's a shame he cost Chris a good placing by having them fail. He could have easily put another masterlink on and finished without losing a lap.

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1 minute ago, Tbahr said:

Like I was saying, it's a shame he cost Chris a good placing by having them fail. He could have easily put another masterlink on and finished without losing a lap.

I still don’t understand when you say fail. They can’t fail like a clip they are press fit and riveted the chain will fail before a rivet link. It is essentially a endless chain. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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20 minutes ago, Tbahr said:

Ask Johnny Campbell why his press fit chain failed twice and 14 other XC1 pros didn't have a failure with a clip masterlink.

Do you have some actual proof of a riveted chain fail? Where is it in writing or a picture? 

Hum how do you know any of the pros are running chains with a master link. 😉

Edited by StevetheSnake

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I use DIDvt2 or mxv, the outside roller shells will wear thinner to the point that you find some cracked.  That will happen before the chain elongates from inner pin wear, making measuring kind of obsolete.  Chains are so much better than the old days.

Edited by highmarker
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