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Can a 06 YZ250 be made to feel like my 16 YZ450?

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Can 06 forks and shock be reworked to feel like a 16?

So I have an 06 yz250 (suspension way too soft and under sprung) and a 16 yz450 (which is freakin magic, love it!).  The guy who had the 06 before me did everything he could to make it a 250x.  He did have the suspension redone, valving and springs.  He must have been quite a bit lighter than me too because at 180, that bike was way under sprung for me.  In sand, the front end dives in corners hard, it bottoms small jumps, etc etc.  

Here's my question:  Is it even possible for any of the suspension folks out there to revalve this bike and make it feel identical to my 450?  My 450 is stock, but it's perfect.  With just a few clicks of adjusters I can take that bike from a full on MX bike, to a full on trail bike.  The suspension is plush on little stuff, and amazing on big hits.  I can't say too much about how awesome it is.  I ride a good mix of mtn trails, desert, MX, and sand.  The clickers make it work great in all conditions.  The forks hold me up in g-out corners... the thing just works.

I've adjusted the clickers all over the place on the 250 and it just isn't working.  It's harsh on the initial stroke and blows through everything else.  I did put a heavier spring on the back hoping that would help, and it did, but now it feels like a stink bug because the forks are still too soft.  Either way, it didn't fix the harshness of the initial stroke on the shock.

So I'm either going to have it revalved (only if it can be done up like my 450) or sell the bike and buy a newer stock one to start over with.  

Thoughts?  Who could do a great job?

Pro-Action?  (He's local)

 

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A lighter 2-stroke won't have the same front end bite as well,

versus a 4T is has less weight transfer plus no engine braking. It may also tend to deflect more.

 

If that YZ250 suspension was really setup for trail/off-road (and a lighter rider)

springs alone aren't enough to get the MX style handing back, go back to stock valving.

Deep sand often requires stiffer than stock settings.

Edited by mlatour

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IMO, the 250 can be tuned to handle as good or better than the 450. Same components, lighter weight, less engine braking are plus’s. Send the forks and shock out and have it revalved to your specs .

Ps: you could try swapping the 450 components to the 250 and evaluate 😏

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You can get similar valving in there with a couple small adjustments for a 2-stroke.

The fork will be the easy part since they're the same guts.  Copy/paste the valving and maybe drop a springrate for the 2-stroke.  Some different offset clamps will help the 2-stroke a bit too.

The shock is a different size though.  Believe your 250 has a 46mm body and the 16 450F has a 50mm body.  They may have different rod diameters too.  The compression adjusters are the same in the shock.  The rebound bleed geometry has been changed quite a bit from the YZ250 shock to the newer shock.  I believe the linkage rate is also different.  The newer linkage (more progressive - not necessarily a good thing) can be swapped onto the YZ250 with a newer swingarm and newer hub.

Depends how much money you want to spend....

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The simple answer is no 2 stroke can ever " feel " like a 4 stroke ,but you can get it to handle great ,that's not a problem , they go fast in a different way

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11 hours ago, ss-racing said:

IMO, the 250 can be tuned to handle as good or better than the 450. Same components, lighter weight, less engine braking are plus’s. Send the forks and shock out and have it revalved to your specs .

Ps: you could try swapping the 450 components to the 250 and evaluate 😏

I actually tried.  The forks are a different diameter and the shock has the bladder on the opposite side.  Neither fit. 

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I totally get that it's a different weight, frame, etc.  When I say I want it to feel like my 450, I mean I just want the suspension to work like the 450's does.  The 450's is super plush on little stuff, holds me up in corners, and takes the big hits very well.  I had an 01 YZ250 (pretty much stock) back in the day and I swear I was faster on that thing but I doubt it's suspension was as good as my 16' 450's.  If it can be done, I'll go for it.  The question remains; can older technology be valved to feel like newer technology?  If so, I'll give it a go.  I'm gonna give a couple suspension tuners a phone call tomorrow and see what they say. 

People seem to be going two-stroke crazy lately (and I don't blame them) so I think I can get a decent amount out of the bike.  I may be just as well off selling it and buying a newer stock one to start over with.  We'll see what the suspension guys say tomorrow...

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You will never get the traction the 4 stroke has ,you can get it to work in terms of the other stuff

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21 hours ago, mog said:

You will never get the traction the 4 stroke has ,you can get it to work in terms of the other stuff

And that's exactly what I'm hoping for.  I just want the plushness and bottoming resistance.  I did call two different guys today who said they could get it close, but neither would promise perfection.  Pro Action and another dude.  I'm having a hard time deciding between the two.  One is close and convenient, but literally twice as expensive as the other.  Both promise the same thing.  

Edited by jethro450

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Convenience has a price, especially if you need to go back a few times for fine tuning.

Local also means the tuner could meet you at the track and visualize what is to be improved.

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I’m only going to weigh in here because I race 450F’s and a 250R. I’ve even done back to back motos on the different bikes. You can set them up the same but as Hans previously posted you can’t make a 2t feel like a 4t suspension wise. There are too many other factors at play.

The best you can do is set the 250 up with proper spring weights and valving but it will never feel like the 450. 

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In my opinion, the 2-stroke yz250 frame has a strange handling that no suspension work will ever cure. I still have a 08yz250 in the garage and honestly find the handling comparable to a 20' lumber even when you revalve until you have flawless suspensions. I have heard  the race team used to be so tired with the rigid alloy YZ frame in those years, they broke out the belt sander. 

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I prefer the yz 250 to the yzf ,that was horrible , Sebastian where have you been ?

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6 minutes ago, mog said:

I prefer the yz 250 to the yzf ,that was horrible , Sebastian where have you been ?

Marcus. Hope you're doing fine! What happens is the wife is riding ME.... I don't get to ride nothing lol...

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11 hours ago, no hand said:

In my opinion, the 2-stroke yz250 frame has a strange handling that no suspension work will ever cure. I still have a 08yz250 in the garage and honestly find the handling comparable to a 20' lumber even when you revalve until you have flawless suspensions. I have heard  the race team used to be so tired with the rigid alloy YZ frame in those years, they broke out the belt sander. 

I had an 01 yz250 and loved the suspension on it.     For desert riding, it seemed to soak up a lot of stuff.   I screwed up my premix gas cans one day and melted that thing down.   I ended up buying an 06 to replace it.   That 05 yz250 never felt as good or stable as the 01.  I think the steel frame must have made a big difference.

Back to the topic, neither one of my yz250's, nor my ktm 300 suspensions, despite my significant investments in them, felt as plush as my 4 strokes  (wr450, KTM 450xcf or 500 exc).   This is not to say that they didn't feel good, they actually felt great.   But not the same.   The difference in feel was not really because of the suspension.  They just moved around a lot compared to thumpers which felt more planted because of the weight and gyroscopic effect of the motor.

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Just following up here.  I DID have the 250's suspension revalved by a reputable dude.  He did a great job.  The bike really does feel just like my 450 now.  When I say "feel" I'm talking suspension action, not handling and weight and such.  I spent a little time tinkering with sag, fork heights, etc and got them both to where they feel about exactly the same.  I then went and raced a dinky little turn track (I suck at turns, so it was a great training exercise) and compared notes.  It's amazing to me how with just valving the thing is 100% different now. 

I raced the bikes back to back to see which I was faster on, here's a video.  It was fun to watch!

 

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