Xtrainer tps

[ajbelf]

Cleaned carb on 18 xtrainer and now "MIL" light is on. Did I goof up the TPS  setting?  How do I correct?

 

[ToolmanJohn]

There should be a painted line on the TPS sensor and the carb body for alignment purposes. Beyond that, make certain the TPS connector plug is fully seated in the socket. In the future, you do not really need to remove the TPS unless you are soaking the carb in cleaner.

Also, after engine start, my MIL light is always on for at least a couple seconds. So, it's normal, unless it doesn't shut off.

I've looked for instructions on the voltage or resistance setting for the TPS at normal engine idle speed, but haven't come up with anything online. Maybe a dealer could find out what the setiing could be. There are electrical dongles sold online just for this purpose. It's the only way to know if it is set correctly or is working at all. The TPS position and engine RPM's are used for oiling.

Edited October 28, 2018 by ToolmanJohn

[Scruffydroid]

Here is a troubleshooting guide and how to set your TPS.

[ToolmanJohn]

 

3 hours ago, Scruffydroid said:

Here is a troubleshooting guide and how to set your TPS.

Where is the link for this manual? I have looked on the Beta Support site and can't find this.

EDIT: I found it!  http://www.betarider.org/Oil_injection_guide.pdf   

Edited October 29, 2018 by ToolmanJohn

[ajbelf]

There should be a painted line on the TPS sensor and the carb body for alignment purposes. Beyond that, make certain the TPS connector plug is fully seated in the socket. In the future, you do not really need to remove the TPS unless you are soaking the carb in cleaner.
Also, after engine start, my MIL light is always on for at least a couple seconds. So, it's normal, unless it doesn't shut off.
I've looked for instructions on the voltage or resistance setting for the TPS at normal engine idle speed, but haven't come up with anything online. Maybe a dealer could find out what the setiing could be. There are electrical dongles sold online just for this purpose. It's the only way to know if it is set correctly or is working at all. The TPS position and engine RPM's are used for oiling.

I did align the green marks. I moved the slot on the tps slightly to line it up with the tab coming out of the carb. Wondering if I pulled a wire when I swung the sub-frame up to access carb.

[ToolmanJohn]

22 hours ago, ajbelf said:

I did align the green marks. I moved the slot on the tps slightly to line it up with the tab coming out of the carb. Wondering if I pulled a wire when I swung the sub-frame up to access carb.

Time to break out the ohmmeter.... I've created my own worst scenarios in the past by accidentally introducing problems during repairs. But I learn a lot from those mistakes too.

[ajbelf]

Time to break out the ohmmeter.... I've created my own worst scenarios in the past by accidentally introducing problems during repairs. But I learn a lot from those mistakes too.

Can I remove tps at carb, use 50:1 and ride while I'm sorting the problem?

[markbfe501]

49 minutes ago, ajbelf said:

Can I remove tps at carb, use 50:1 and ride while I'm sorting the problem?

I would think so if you disconnect the OI pump.  Might consider plugging the intake inlet hose as well.  Essentially doing an OI delete, which negates the need for the TPS altogether from my understanding.

[ajbelf]

I would think so if you disconnect the OI pump.  Might consider plugging the intake inlet hose as well.  Essentially doing an OI delete, which negates the need for the TPS altogether from my understanding.

I like that better. Disconnect power to Ol would solve the problem of sealing tps and the opening on carb where tps plugs in.

[ToolmanJohn]

If your rides are not far enough to require a gas station refuel, or if you're willing to mix at the pump, then removing OI is a safe bet too. I kept mine simply because of how easy it is to refuel either at the pump (rare) or at home. If I have to take fuel with me (only happened once), I just make sure th OI is topped off, and fuel. Never have to think about it.

If the OI fails someday, I'll likely just fix it.

[ajbelf]

 
Where is the link for this manual? I have looked on the Beta Support site and can't find this.
EDIT: I found it!  http://www.betarider.org/Oil_injection_guide.pdf   

The electrical values and oil measurements stated are for a '15 xtrainer, valid for an '18?

[ajbelf]

If your rides are not far enough to require a gas station refuel, or if you're willing to mix at the pump, then removing OI is a safe bet too. I kept mine simply because of how easy it is to refuel either at the pump (rare) or at home. If I have to take fuel with me (only happened once), I just make sure th OI is topped off, and fuel. Never have to think about it.
If the OI fails someday, I'll likely just fix it.

I completely agree with the convenience factor, but still worry about OI failure far from home.

[wwguy]

3 hours ago, ToolmanJohn said:

If the OI fails someday, I'll likely just fix it.

If OI fails someday it's likely you won't notice it before the engine fails too.  The most common reasons for failure aren't detected by the ECU, which controls the warning light on the speedo.  Here's an example of somebody who discovered that the hard way.

2 hours ago, ajbelf said:

On 10/29/2018 at 5:07 AM, ToolmanJohn said:

 Where is the link for this manual? I have looked on the Beta Support site and can't find this.
EDIT: I found it!  http://www.betarider.org/Oil_injection_guide.pdf   

The electrical values and oil measurements stated are for a '15 xtrainer, valid for an '18?

Here's a link to an updated version.

[Beta300REcat]

On 10/30/2018 at 12:44 PM, markbfe501 said:

 Essentially doing an OI delete, which negates the need for the TPS altogether from my understanding.

Not true.

[markbfe501]

7 hours ago, Bermudacat said:

Not true.

Absolutely true.  TPS on a carb'd XTrainer is only used for the oil injection rate.  When you buy the OI removal kit from Beta, you yank the TPS off the carb altogether, unplug it from the wiring harness and put a block off plate in it's place.  The TPS ends up in a pile of removed parts.

https://www.betausa.com/sites/default/files/pdf/accessories/oil injection removal kit installation.pdf

 

[Beta300REcat]

1 hour ago, markbfe501 said:

Absolutely true.  TPS on a carb'd XTrainer is only used for the oil injection rate.  When you buy the OI removal kit from Beta, you yank the TPS off the carb altogether, unplug it from the wiring harness and put a block off plate in it's place.  The TPS ends up in a pile of removed parts.

https://www.betausa.com/sites/default/files/pdf/accessories/oil injection removal kit installation.pdf

 

False.

The TPS also varies spark advance based on throttle position and engine rpm.

Do a search for minimum best torque VS spark advance, or don't.

Maybe instead, ask yourself why the RE comes with the TPS even though it has no OI?

[Ud_Luz]

2 minutes ago, Bermudacat said:

False.

The TPS also varies spark advance based on throttle position and engine rpm.

Do a search for minimum best torque VS spark advance, or don't.

Maybe instead, ask yourself why the RE comes with the TPS even though it has no OI?

I put Lectrons on both of our xTrainers. I can't tell the slightest difference in any spark advance or performance other than both run better without endlessly rejetting from the crazy altitude changes we ride the bikes at.

If it does advance the timing it's so slight as to be negligible. 

[markbfe501]

21 minutes ago, Bermudacat said:

False.

The TPS also varies spark advance based on throttle position and engine rpm.

Do a search for minimum best torque VS spark advance, or don't.

Maybe instead, ask yourself why the RE comes with the TPS even though it has no OI?

Do you have an XTrainer?  It's a pretty basic 2 stroke with a carb & CDI.  Did you read the BETA Oil Injection Delete manual that I attached to my post, that clearly shows removing the TPS when doing the Oil Injection delete that they sell the kit for?

I understand how TPS works on my Husky FE501 with fuel injection and ECU.  But on the XTRainer, the TPS is simply used for the OI system.  Else, maybe instead, ask yourself why would BETA have you remove it when doing an OI delete? 

And, is it fully necessary for you to be such a rude dude in your replies?  C'mon dude!

Edited November 1, 2018 by markbfe501

[wwguy]

TPS is only used for oil injection and can be removed or disconnected without issue. As mentioned above the OI removal kit instructions detail how to remove it, as do the instructions for the TPS Removal Plug.  The optional Race Wire Loom Kit requires OI removal and doesn't include wires or connectors for the TPS. ( The primary reason for physically removing and plugging the TPS is simply to slightly reduce spring tension for twisting the throttle.)

Beta introduced OI, including the TPS, on 2015 Xtrainer.  In 2016 they included it on the RR, but not the Race Edition.  Starting in 2017 they made the RR RE bikes "Oil injection ready" by including connectors in the wiring harness for oil pump and TPS and then offering an optional Oil Injection Installation Kit for $350. (The OI controller itself is in the ECU.) Since the TPS is relatively challenging for riders to install and calibrate, and also fairly inexpensive, Beta included it as part of the "OI ready" package installed at the factory on RR RE bikes.

Like Ud_Luz above I've been running a Lectron with premix for 200+ hours and my 2016 Xtrainer 300 runs great.

Edited November 1, 2018 by wwguy

[Beta300REcat]

1 hour ago, markbfe501 said:

And, is it fully necessary for you to be such a rude dude in your replies?  C'mon dude!

Wasn't being rude, I was jut disagreeing with you.

So, why does the RE have a thin film resistor that costs $130 retail if all it does is run the OI?

(Hint: even air cooled flatheads had a provision for spark advance)