New Rider/s

[Horgh]

3 hours ago, guns_equal_freedom said:

Most of the guys who ride like to ride with people of all skills.
If they are a bit faster most of them will stop at intersections or at the hard parts of the trail to let you catch up.
Remember, no matter how fast they are going (how fast I think I am going) there's always a someone who's faster than they are (faster than me).

I get that, but it's more me than them. Call it a mental hangup or whatever, but I feel uncomfortable and anxious when people are waiting on me in general. Like, if you're behind me in the grocery checkout and I have more items than you, I feel uneasy and would rather let you go in front of me. I've ridden with more experienced riders and even though they never said so, I always felt like they were slightly annoyed with my lack of skills. Again, could all be in my head.

I guess in the end if it's woods trails, exploration, pretty scenery, and good people, all while learning new skills, then I'm game. My only real limit is that I don't do well with heights, so tight paths with sheer cliff drop-offs make me turn around, in general any potential of falling off a mountain has my palms sweating.

I'd love to have some more experienced folks show me around Tahuya, Walker Valley, etc. My bike is almost ready, but I do plan on sending my suspension in to Kreft soon, so I need to figure out when to do that.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Horgh

[ride200mi]

11 hours ago, Horgh said:

I get that, but it's more me than them. Call it a mental hangup or whatever, but I feel uncomfortable and anxious when people are waiting on me in general. Like, if you're behind me in the grocery checkout and I have more items than you, I feel uneasy and would rather let you go in front of me. I've ridden with more experienced riders and even though they never said so, I always felt like they were slightly annoyed with my lack of skills. Again, could all be in my head.

I guess in the end if it's woods trails, exploration, pretty scenery, and good people, all while learning new skills, then I'm game. My only real limit is that I don't do well with heights, so tight paths with sheer cliff drop-offs make me turn around, in general any potential of falling off a mountain has my palms sweating.

I'd love to have some more experienced folks show me around Tahuya, Walker Valley, etc. My bike is almost ready, but I do plan on sending my suspension in to Kreft soon, so I need to figure out when to do that.

As I am finding out from riding with a couple of guys here, I'm not that quick either. Mainly, I'm not used to the tight switch backs that require a full bar stop to bar stop trail. So saying that, next time (or when you are done with your bike) we can get together and ride, exploring the trails and seeing what works for us both.

[Anatoli]

As I am finding out from riding with a couple of guys here, I'm not that quick either. Mainly, I'm not used to the tight switch backs that require a full bar stop to bar stop trail. So saying that, next time (or when you are done with your bike) we can get together and ride, exploring the trails and seeing what works for us both.

A lot of guys focus on being as fast as possible. It becomes a point of pride and they are only really happy when they can smoke you. I find that these guys aren’t much fun to ride with. Try to find riding buddies that want to improve their bike handling skills, are willing to spend some time practicing on obstacles to do so, and genuinely care about your health and welfare. For me half the fun is meeting new riders and sharing the experience while actively working to become a better rider. When you get good enough to ride the difficult singletrack without falling off, then the sport really becomes enjoyable. Some of the best riders I know are more than happy to spend the day riding slower than max race speed and enjoy helping newer riders learn the subtle techniques that make it all look so easy. I got schooled this way on Thursday..

[ride200mi]

4 minutes ago, Anatoli said:

A lot of guys focus on being as fast as possible. It becomes a point of pride and they are only really happy when they can smoke you. I find that these guys aren’t much fun to ride with. Try to find riding buddies that want to improve their bike handling skills, are willing to spend some time practicing on obstacles to do so, and genuinely care about your health and welfare. For me half the fun is meeting new riders and sharing the experience while actively working to become a better rider. When you get good enough to ride the difficult singletrack without falling off, then the sport really becomes enjoyable. Some of the best riders I know are more than happy to spend the day riding slower than max race speed and enjoy helping newer riders learn the subtle techniques that make it all look so easy. I got schooled this way on Thursday..

Being a transplant from AZ, the trails were a bit more challenging in as much as sept-ups, rocky terrain some narly down hills etc. But most were fairly open. Like flowing but challenging. I saw a vid in one of the treads that had some A riders doing some single track that looked to be in AZ but not sure. I'll see if I can find it again and one can get an idea of some different stuff.

 

[Horgh]

23 minutes ago, Anatoli said:

A lot of guys focus on being as fast as possible. It becomes a point of pride and they are only really happy when they can smoke you. I find that these guys aren’t much fun to ride with. Try to find riding buddies that want to improve their bike handling skills, are willing to spend some time practicing on obstacles to do so, and genuinely care about your health and welfare. For me half the fun is meeting new riders and sharing the experience while actively working to become a better rider. When you get good enough to ride the difficult singletrack without falling off, then the sport really becomes enjoyable. Some of the best riders I know are more than happy to spend the day riding slower than max race speed and enjoy helping newer riders learn the subtle techniques that make it all look so easy. I got schooled this way on Thursday..

You just said it better than I could, that's exactly the type of group I'm hoping to either form or join. I don't care about speed, in fact I hated the one track day I did (on a sport bike). I like acceleration, sure, but I never ride too fast, I had enough physics classes to know the possible outcomes. I'm after learning bike control, slow speed skills, and the ability to stay standing through some gnarly single-track. That's why I mentioned the Crosstraining Enduro channel, they tend to ride slower, more deliberately, while having fun and learning. I have no problem practicing the same obstacle or stretch of single-track over and over, or just standing by to spot the other guys doing the same. I think that's the best way to build trust and a good group chemistry.

[EmpireofDerp]

You just said it better than I could, that's exactly the type of group I'm hoping to either form or join. I don't care about speed, in fact I hated the one track day I did (on a sport bike). I like acceleration, sure, but I never ride too fast, I had enough physics classes to know the possible outcomes. I'm after learning bike control, slow speed skills, and the ability to stay standing through some gnarly single-track. That's why I mentioned the Crosstraining Enduro channel, they tend to ride slower, more deliberately, while having fun and learning. I have no problem practicing the same obstacle or stretch of single-track over and over, or just standing by to spot the other guys doing the same. I think that's the best way to build trust and a good group chemistry.

Those are ok opinions, but the easiest way to conquer difficult sections is to carry momentum. You'll need to work on speed up to a point, otherwise you'll really struggle to get to that next level. Good luck though.

[Horgh]

1 minute ago, HevyRotashunz said:

4 minutes ago, Horgh said:

You just said it better than I could, that's exactly the type of group I'm hoping to either form or join. I don't care about speed, in fact I hated the one track day I did (on a sport bike). I like acceleration, sure, but I never ride too fast, I had enough physics classes to know the possible outcomes. I'm after learning bike control, slow speed skills, and the ability to stay standing through some gnarly single-track. That's why I mentioned the Crosstraining Enduro channel, they tend to ride slower, more deliberately, while having fun and learning. I have no problem practicing the same obstacle or stretch of single-track over and over, or just standing by to spot the other guys doing the same. I think that's the best way to build trust and a good group chemistry.

Read more  

Those are ok opinions, but the easiest way to conquer difficult sections is to carry momentum. You'll need to work on speed up to a point, otherwise you'll really struggle to get to that next level. Good luck though.

Oh, for sure, that's more of those physics classes that I mentioned ?  When I say "speed", I mean neck-breaking speed through open sections or blind corners, or excessive speed through slower sections that actually reduces the amount of bike control you have. Basically squid moves. I'm sure good riders can retain plenty of control at higher-than-needed speeds, but I think plenty of riders don't. My point was that I won't be the guy constantly blasting by you to get to the finish first for some bragging rights.

[Anatoli]

Oh, for sure, that's more of those physics classes that I mentioned [emoji6]  When I say "speed", I mean neck-breaking speed through open sections or blind corners, or excessive speed through slower sections that actually reduces the amount of bike control you have. Basically squid moves. I'm sure good riders can retain plenty of control at higher-than-needed speeds, but I think plenty of riders don't. My point was that I won't be the guy constantly blasting by you to get to the finish first for some bragging rights.

I am a big fan of Barry Morris and his cross training videos. Something to consider is that all the top hard enduro champions were trials champions first: Jarvis, Haker, Bolt, Sanz, Walker to name a few. A smaller, lighter bike lets one explore the world of balance and bike control while you build skills, strength, and confidence. Watch some of Graham Jarvis’s videos: he is happy to share his hard won knowledge. Jarvis rarely uses more throttle than necessary but still does the impossible. His mastery of technique over brute force helps him to save energy and have something left in the tank after several hours. As mentioned momentum is key for extreme climbs but without the necessary bike skills you are liable to get hurt.
Here in the PNT the wet season brings special challenges. There is no substitute for the appropriate tires for these conditions. There are many different sticky tires now available, and combined with lower air pressure, the rider can ride with confidence in very slick conditions. Tire choice for conditions is the single most effective mod for any motorcycle. Do the research and spend your hard earned here first. This is the best way to avoid injury too.

[Horgh]

4 minutes ago, Anatoli said:

I am a big fan of Barry Morris and his cross training videos. Something to consider is that all the top hard enduro champions were trials champions first: Jarvis, Haker, Bolt, Sanz, Walker to name a few. A smaller, lighter bike lets one explore the world of balance and bike control while you build skills, strength, and confidence. Watch some of Graham Jarvis’s videos: he is happy to share his hard won knowledge. Jarvis rarely uses more throttle than necessary but still does the impossible. His mastery of technique over brute force helps him to save energy and have something left in the tank after several hours. As mentioned momentum is key for extreme climbs but without the necessary bike skills you are liable to get hurt.
Here in the PNT the wet season brings special challenges. There is no substitute for the appropriate tires for these conditions. There are many different sticky tires now available, and combined with lower air pressure, the rider can ride with confidence in very slick conditions. Tire choice for conditions is the single most effective mod for any motorcycle. Do the research and spend your hard earned here first. This is the best way to avoid injury too.

Very well said. I thought about buying a trials bike too, but I already have too many vehicles and not enough free time. I think my 350 will do for most of what I want to learn, it'll just take a bit longer. As for tires, I have a Goldentyre GT216 fatty and a GT333 rear coming, along with a Tubliss system for both wheels. I think that should give me pretty good traction around these parts, especially at low PSI. ?

[EmpireofDerp]

Very well said. I thought about buying a trials bike too, but I already have too many vehicles and not enough free time. I think my 350 will do for most of what I want to learn, it'll just take a bit longer. As for tires, I have a Goldentyre GT216 fatty and a GT333 rear coming, along with a Tubliss system for both wheels. I think that should give me pretty good traction around these parts, especially at low PSI. [emoji106]

That's a good set up, but that short knob front would pack up like crazy here if you don't maintain 3rd gear on the pipe. I'm running tubliss with an M59 front and a 525 cheater rear. Some very fast guys around here swear by the Bridgestone M101 mud/sand track tire for this gnarly red clay because it cleans out at lower speeds. The PNW is extremely demanding during the wet season, I spend a lot of time on my arse.

[Tye Durden]

5 hours ago, HevyRotashunz said:

5 hours ago, Horgh said:

You just said it better than I could, that's exactly the type of group I'm hoping to either form or join. I don't care about speed, in fact I hated the one track day I did (on a sport bike). I like acceleration, sure, but I never ride too fast, I had enough physics classes to know the possible outcomes. I'm after learning bike control, slow speed skills, and the ability to stay standing through some gnarly single-track. That's why I mentioned the Crosstraining Enduro channel, they tend to ride slower, more deliberately, while having fun and learning. I have no problem practicing the same obstacle or stretch of single-track over and over, or just standing by to spot the other guys doing the same. I think that's the best way to build trust and a good group chemistry.

Read more  

Those are ok opinions, but the easiest way to conquer difficult sections is to carry momentum. You'll need to work on speed up to a point, otherwise you'll really struggle to get to that next level. Good luck though.

That is sort of relative though, most stuff that is gnarly that you want to carry momentum through is still slow enough you can *almost* step off, which is different than just going really fast on single track.  But I agree, even going that momentum speed, or entering a rootball crap section with some momentum I think might be intimidating to many people and they get caught up, and have to work through it and use 10x more effort than it they hit it with some momentum, it's all on a continuum. The thing is, you have to do it to know how to do it, and know what lines to choose to do so. Lines are different when you are going faster and you'll never learn them without trying once and a while. But I am totally all over what @Anatoli is saying, ride another day. I am all for stopping and re-trying sections it is much safer to incrementally up your game than just going for it.

[Tye Durden]

18 hours ago, Horgh said:

I get that, but it's more me than them. Call it a mental hangup or whatever, but I feel uncomfortable and anxious when people are waiting on me in general. Like, if you're behind me in the grocery checkout and I have more items than you, I feel uneasy and would rather let you go in front of me. I've ridden with more experienced riders and even though they never said so, I always felt like they were slightly annoyed with my lack of skills. Again, could all be in my head.

I guess in the end if it's woods trails, exploration, pretty scenery, and good people, all while learning new skills, then I'm game. My only real limit is that I don't do well with heights, so tight paths with sheer cliff drop-offs make me turn around, in general any potential of falling off a mountain has my palms sweating.

I'd love to have some more experienced folks show me around Tahuya, Walker Valley, etc. My bike is almost ready, but I do plan on sending my suspension in to Kreft soon, so I need to figure out when to do that.

The way I approach it is if I am riding with a group, and I know the group (then I know what to expect and I made that choice) or a group I don't know everyone (I still made that choice, and my expectations are go with the flow) then my expectations are also that the other riders made the same choice. Some guys are gonna wait for you, you are gonna wait for some. Don't feel bad if you're slowest, don't get wrapped if your waiting for a while. It is hard when you are the slow guy though, and every time you catch up at an intersection and the riders in front took a breather they're off and your like WTH I need a break! 

Kreft - just my .02, do a bit of riding first and think about what you might want and where you are now and where you want to be in the next year or so with your riding. I have only heard firsthand, and read excellent reviews on Kreft.  Also, I think after you send your stuff down there you can call them and talk to them a bit about your riding style, etc. A well tuned suspension will blow you away.

[TigerTanker]

Anatoli  gets it. Very well stated, but that’s just like him...

Today I rode with my 96th ride partner of the year. Beginning rider. Russ, rider 6000, shrub and I dragged him around the st of Tahuya and made him feel included. He clearly had a blast and appreciated the tips, support and companionship. 

Russ told Derrick that we’ve all been there, being new.  We in that way return the favor and spend time helping others 

 

 

 

[TigerTanker]

20 hours ago, Horgh said:

I get that, but it's more me than them. Call it a mental hangup or whatever, but I feel uncomfortable and anxious when people are waiting on me in general. Like, if you're behind me in the grocery checkout and I have more items than you, I feel uneasy and would rather let you go in front of me. I've ridden with more experienced riders and even though they never said so, I always felt like they were slightly annoyed with my lack of skills. Again, could all be in my head.

I guess in the end if it's woods trails, exploration, pretty scenery, and good people, all while learning new skills, then I'm game. My only real limit is that I don't do well with heights, so tight paths with sheer cliff drop-offs make me turn around, in general any potential of falling off a mountain has my palms sweating.

I'd love to have some more experienced folks show me around Tahuya, Walker Valley, etc. My bike is almost ready, but I do plan on sending my suspension in to Kreft soon, so I need to figure out when to do that.

You got two things for sure to work on. Learning inner peace and patience on the trail. Like others have said, few riders care if you are a bit slower. You’ll also hear voices in your head while riding, you’ll need to control them too. The voices love goading you into “faster” which means crashing. 

The heights thing. Were born with that, and you need to learn how to override that. You’ll take some walks along places, practice, start riding stuff, in two years you will not flinch. But, realize it’s not you, it’s a process. 

You will not just be a better rider from learning the above. You’ll gain confidence and feel better about yourself too. 

[guns_equal_freedom]

3 hours ago, HevyRotashunz said:

The PNW is extremely demanding during the wet season, I spend a lot of time on my arse.

You need to put some espresso in the tank so your bike won't fall asleep on the trail.  

[Horgh]

57 minutes ago, TigerTanker said:

You got two things for sure to work on. Learning inner peace and patience on the trail. Like others have said, few riders care if you are a bit slower. You’ll also hear voices in your head while riding, you’ll need to control them too. The voices love goading you into “faster” which means crashing. 

The heights thing. Were born with that, and you need to learn how to override that. You’ll take some walks along places, practice, start riding stuff, in two years you will not flinch. But, realize it’s not you, it’s a process. 

You will not just be a better rider from learning the above. You’ll gain confidence and feel better about yourself too. 

Those are some words to live by for sure. I didn't realize how many of you PNW guys are down to earth, I think the dirt attracts the good people. I've been chasing inner peace most of my life, I've made progress, but a Type A personality is hard to calm down. But I totally hear what you're saying. 

As for the heights, I get shaky and can lose balance when that anxiety kicks in, it's happened on some hikes, which is why I avoid those situations. I'm sure with some gradual practice I can get better, but you guys are gonna see some real pucker factor. 

I look forward to meeting you guys when the chance arises. This is a very nice group. 

[partsguy57]

I am a big fan of Barry Morris and his cross training videos. Something to consider is that all the top hard enduro champions were trials champions first: Jarvis, Haker, Bolt, Sanz, Walker to name a few. A smaller, lighter bike lets one explore the world of balance and bike control while you build skills, strength, and confidence. Watch some of Graham Jarvis’s videos: he is happy to share his hard won knowledge. Jarvis rarely uses more throttle than necessary but still does the impossible. His mastery of technique over brute force helps him to save energy and have something left in the tank after several hours. As mentioned momentum is key for extreme climbs but without the necessary bike skills you are liable to get hurt.
Here in the PNT the wet season brings special challenges. There is no substitute for the appropriate tires for these conditions. There are many different sticky tires now available, and combined with lower air pressure, the rider can ride with confidence in very slick conditions. Tire choice for conditions is the single most effective mod for any motorcycle. Do the research and spend your hard earned here first. This is the best way to avoid injury too.

Grip studs...... I'm in southern Oregon and my crowd runs steep single track with red clay, granite, rocky, to lots of root wads.. they work awesome, tires last longer and if its raining or just quit raining you won't go where we can without them. Don't care for them when things dry out as the bite is to much and they tear lugs off. No big deal for me as I have no interest in riding in late spring, summer and early fall... dusty and hot... no thanks. Bikes put away, time to break out the hot rods. Cheers

[verman84]

Anatoli  gets it. Very well stated, but that’s just like him...
Today I rode with my 96th ride partner of the year. Beginning rider. Russ, rider 6000, shrub and I dragged him around the st of Tahuya and made him feel included. He clearly had a blast and appreciated the tips, support and companionship. 
Russ told Derrick that we’ve all been there, being new.  We in that way return the favor and spend time helping others 
 
 
 

This was a very fun ride. Definitely challenging for me (second ride on my bike, first time in single track) as conditions were tight and slick. Any log, root or stick thicker than an inch or two running parallel to the trail was basically a one way ticket to tumble town. I must have dropped my bike at least a dozen times

I was clearly the slowest guy in the bunch but Magnus (can't remember his screen name) put it well. It's not about riding fast its about riding smooth. Lots of great tips and pointers all around. They also usually left one guy behind me as a cleaning crew to make sure i didn't get into too much trouble and didn't get left behind which was reassuring. I dropped the bike and fell a few times. I think I somersaulted within the first 10 minutes. Towards the end of the day I was exhausted. I was trying to turn my bike around at a dead end and slipped, fell and ended up laying in some ferns with my bike on top of me with zero energy to lift it up. Thankfully one of the guys grabbed it for me.

Then there were a few instances of steep rocky/rooty/loggrd single track climbs where I surprised myself by getting through despite being convinced I was going to stall, fall, or send my bike flying towards the heavens. But then something as simple as a tight corner throws me off again.

It's maddening and torturous at times but somehow fun at the same time. If the few guys I met today are any kind of indicator, this is a great supportive group.

We should definitely keep things rolling for new riders though. A group of fellow encouraging riders is a great thing and brings everyone up. Maybe we start with a warm up, try to work on one or two specific skills and then ride. I like meeting new people. If I didn't have to rush home today, I would have gladly met up after.

[Horgh]

That's sounds pretty great! Hopefully I'll be ready for an outing soon, I need to do some shakedown tests of my gear and setup. 

[TigerTanker]

11 hours ago, verman84 said:

This was a very fun ride. Definitely challenging for me (second ride on my bike, first time in single track) as conditions were tight and slick. Any log, root or stick thicker than an inch or two running parallel to the trail was basically a one way ticket to tumble town. I must have dropped my bike at least a dozen times

I was clearly the slowest guy in the bunch but Magnus (can't remember his screen name) put it well. It's not about riding fast its about riding smooth. Lots of great tips and pointers all around. They also usually left one guy behind me as a cleaning crew to make sure i didn't get into too much trouble and didn't get left behind which was reassuring. I dropped the bike and fell a few times. I think I somersaulted within the first 10 minutes. Towards the end of the day I was exhausted. I was trying to turn my bike around at a dead end and slipped, fell and ended up laying in some ferns with my bike on top of me with zero energy to lift it up. Thankfully one of the guys grabbed it for me.

Then there were a few instances of steep rocky/rooty/loggrd single track climbs where I surprised myself by getting through despite being convinced I was going to stall, fall, or send my bike flying towards the heavens. But then something as simple as a tight corner throws me off again.

It's maddening and torturous at times but somehow fun at the same time. If the few guys I met today are any kind of indicator, this is a great supportive group.

We should definitely keep things rolling for new riders though. A group of fellow encouraging riders is a great thing and brings everyone up. Maybe we start with a warm up, try to work on one or two specific skills and then ride. I like meeting new people. If I didn't have to rush home today, I would have gladly met up after.

TigerTanker...

I will give you some advice that will also apply to any other new riders. This is based on observations of many many riders.

set your bike up so you are flat footed, not balls of feet or tippy toes. You’ll die of exhaustion otherwise. 

Wear armor everywhere. Even advanced riders do, the pnw is a very dangerous place to ride. Buy used or beg for gear if you have to! I found a guy recently that I’m passing in some gear to  

The most important piece of armor to wear and warrants the most spending is boots. Helmet second. I’ve hit my head hard 3 times in 25k dirt miles, a million times in my feet. 

Eyewear. If you can’t see where you are going you can’t ride. Not wearing eyewear is a fantastic way to lose an eye. Do NOT ever ride without eyewear. Keep a spare set of safety glasses to compliment your goggles. Buy mesh sunglasses meant for chainsaw users. Amazing they are, cheap too at only about $15

ask for tips and advice and watch the skilled rider ahead. I’m borderline expert now and I’ll ride with beginners, but you’ll also hear my unsolicited advice. Getting better requires effort. 

Nothing will make you better than seat time. Create a schedule to ride and practice. Identify areas to work on, then do it. Watch all the Cross training enduro vids, @OZ DRZ has helped countless riders get better. Smooth is fast, and riding slow to get better are some sage advice of his. Super slow figure 8s and practicing log hops are crucial and very effective here in pnw 

set up your bike. Most bikes are terrible and awful if not horrible for riding pnw. This is the most challenging place on earth to ride for terrain and weather. Find bike specific web threads and ask the veterans what you need to do with your bike. Some of these folks live on these threads and really really know their stuff. Their free advice is invaluable!!

pnw riding is all about traction. Tires and tube fillers are vital to riding and your enjoyment. Traction is everything!

Injuries. You will hurt yourself, and possibly serious. You are extremely vulnerable as a newb. Safety and sanity first! Even regular riders that wear all gear get hurt. I know of very very few vet riders that don’t fully armor up. Lack of armor is a fools game.