No one tells you this when you go to your aftermarket head on a tpi!

[SmokinJoe]

What's this talk about euro 6? I thought it was euro 4 emissions spec. With euro 5 coming in like 5 more years. 

[KimPe]

My bad, you are right it's euro 4 not 6. It was mentioned on the previous messages and I didn't check. Mog do you mean that the dyno plot you posted was with the pipe thats number 10 in this https://sparepartsfinder.ktm.com/ComponentGroupTemplate/Index/19100?modelidentifier=1001516236&isEngine=False spare part number: 55605109000 and 50406012040 which is the air restriction plate?

The bike is not euro anything after you change those.

Edited November 16, 2018 by KimPe
added pic

[mog]

As far as I know this is a STD UK bike as delivered

[KimPe]

Someone who has bought a new tpi can chime in, but as far as I know it's pretty common to get the euro 4 parts with the bike and the unrestricted parts already installed from the dealer.

[MentalGuru]

6 minutes ago, mog said:

As far as I know this is a STD UK bike as delivered

So now the question is does KTM send standard UK bikes to the states since Slavens is Colorado.

[HERA]

I think it should be noted that the term "high compression head" is being used as a universal entity. Meaning,  any head that is higher compression than OEM compression ratio will make the engine run lean and require a colder plug.

Kind of like stating that ALL Ham and Pineapple pizza, no matter who made them (Pizza Hut ,Dominos etc) will taste exactly the same so there would be no use in even trying another pizza joint because it would still taste the same..

Point being. You can successfully add a higher compression or even same compression ratio head to the TPI and gain a performance increase as a result.. This would not require any plug or fueling changes.

So, the premise that adding heads, pipes, etc etc. wil throw the TPI fueling for a loop is simply not true.

[KimPe]

No, that was actually offtopic. Mog posted dyno plot that he thought was from tpi from uk in euro 4 configuration and I disagreed.
There is good information and conversation in this topic when it doesn't slip off to personal attacks and fighting about 150 1/4 throttle hp and rpm.
There is dyno plot to prove that the inductive discharge ignition with the large air gap of the stock plug causes misfire on high rpm on modded engine. I'm on phone right now, so I'm not gonna check if it was posted here or on Ktmtalk.
The inductive discharge ignition system has advantage over cdi on lower rpm because it can generate more voltage and the spark lasts longer, so it's better for emissions testing and that's probably the reason it's used on tpi. It works well with stock head there is no denying that, but when you increase the compression you are demanding more from the ignition system especially at higher rpm where IDI doesn't have enough time to charge the coil.
The alternative spark plugs suggested for tpi have smaller air gap and can fix the misfire stock plug causes on modded engine at high rpm, but now you have smaller spark at low rpm and risk fouling your plug. Not probably a problem if you don't have a fuel tuner to richen the air to fuel ratio at low rpm and a high compression head.
The point I'm trying to make is that you need to choose the correct spark plug for your application and the IDI plays a part in that as does the high compression head and other engine mods along the throttle range the engine is used. Putting a non projected plug of the same heat range is not gonna solve all your problems on a modded tpi engine.

[mog]

Many thanks for your informative post ,I learnt a lot from it

 

Yes euro 4 not 6 ,I got a new diesel lease car recently and they are now euro 6 compliant ,got confused between the 2

 

 

 

 

[G 9.5]

19 hours ago, mog said:

Not sure what the point is about spelling ?

Point being how one's perception of another can be influenced by such a small thing.

[mog]

Like someone being petty ?

[bowser]

I found out real quick when testing RK head inserts on my TPI that you really can't change the head much before these bikes start to run too lean. One of the inserts showed real potential, bike felt much stronger but it ran way too lean. I would almost say it's not worth the expense of an aftermarket head on a TPI until you can change the ignition and fueling maps. The benefits just aren't large enough for the capital outlay.

I don't like the Slavens guy due to a previous purchase and lack of sales support. He seems to know his shit but I struggle with this "issue" when he is using HIS head and HIS maps.....plenty of guys out there are using the stock head and stock maps and are not having issues with the plug

[mog]

Did yours come restricted or unrestricted ? Aus is the same as UK I seem to remember

 

Yes I think if you keep it STD you are not going to have major issues ,if you modify it with a head etc and don't take it to Dyno and make sure it's running safe you are going to have problems, if I had a tpi I think I would leave it STD , it has good afr and 47hp which is enough in reality ,an rmz450 only has a few hp more and weighs loads more

 

 

[Spud786]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:56 AM, MentalGuru said:

Because it's my job as a mod to follow and enforce the sites policies about commercial use not violate them.   

 

I completely get your point, fix the fueling and stock plug is fine, but its a $40 plug, so nice to have a cheaper alternative, even though Jd jetting has an even better alternative for a plug.  Also I agree in not sensoring video's that are beneficial in nature, slavens is always at the very least entertaining.

 

 

[G 9.5]

16 hours ago, bowser said:

I found out real quick when testing RK head inserts on my TPI that you really can't change the head much before these bikes start to run too lean. One of the inserts showed real potential, bike felt much stronger but it ran way too lean. I would almost say it's not worth the expense of an aftermarket head on a TPI until you can change the ignition and fueling maps. The benefits just aren't large enough for the capital outlay.

I don't like the Slavens guy due to a previous purchase and lack of sales support. He seems to know his shit but I struggle with this "issue" when he is using HIS head and HIS maps.....plenty of guys out there are using the stock head and stock maps and are not having issues with the plug

Just a little off base. Jeff is a world class tuner who is really knows his shit. I have never had any problem with after the sale support. He is not using his heads, I believe they are S3 from Europe. ECU is Athena. You were right when you said he is using his own maps which I don't necessarily see as an issue if the OEM map is off. 

[MentalGuru]

4 hours ago, Spud786 said:

I completely get your point, fix the fueling and stock plug is fine, but its a $40 plug, so nice to have a cheaper alternative, even though Jd jetting has an even better alternative for a plug.  Also I agree in not sensoring video's that are beneficial in nature, slavens is always at the very least entertaining.

 

 

We don't censor content posted by regular members who have no skin in the game.   That's not commercial use, that's personal use.  If Slavens started posting his video's or discussing his products that would be considered commercial use.   When you join the site you agree to use the site for personal use only, members who want to use it for commercial/business reasons need to become insiders/site supporters to have that privilege.  We have lot's of options available for them that will allow them to use the site for commercial use, some pay, others work out trades like contributing tech articles and such due to the value that can have for our regular members. 

[az_mc_man]

2 stroke or 4, 2 wheels or more, whether it's for use on the street or strictly for the dirt, from whatever factory manufacturer you choose, doesn't matter if it's carbureted or fuel injected, all vehicles have emissions requirements that the manufacturers MUST meet... These requirements mean that all engines are designed to run as lean as possible... These requirements do nothing for performance or longevity, it is all mandated that the vehicle meets it's target emissions standard... Being lean like they are, performance suffers, mileage suffers, engine's run hotter than they need to, and detonation occurs easier... Wake any vehicle up by increasing the carbon emissions from allowing more fuel into the combustion chamber... Of course a new EFI system may not have aftermarket support immediately available to easily accomplish such a feat, in which case you're best bet is to wait till the tech becomes available or throw caution to the wind and try creating the mapping yourself... 

As far as spark plugs are concerned, some plugs work better than other's in virtually all engines... Some won't last an hour while others can last for year's in any given engine... Pre-ignition is typically caused by an overly lean condition to start, but can be caused (or exacerbated) by other causes... Carbon buildup on the piston or head, sharper edges on a spark plug ground electrode than is necessary, a milling imperfection on the spark plug thread's in the head, these can cause a 'hot spot' and pre-ignition symptoms... First thing to do to keep the engine alive is up your octane levels untill you can get an EFI system remapped or carb rejetted... 

Pre-ignition and pinging (basically ignition by compression) can cause catastrophic damage to any gas engine... Bottom end bearings, rod damage, holes in the piston, are obviously all bad... Diesel engines are the only engines designed to run on compression ignition, no gasoline engine can handle the stresses associated with that type of ignition system...

 

[mog]

But it doesn't actually run lean as delivered

[bowser]

Marcus, mine didn't come restricted. I still found it too soft off band.

 

I don't get slavens video, perhaps I should fill my bike full of diesel then make a youtube video when it blows up... stock the bike runs safe, although not as good as it can be but it runs safe.

[mog]

Wayne I think slavens is just pointing out a simple fact that an after market head will push you into the lean running area ( which you agreed ) and as you can't alter jets ,the bike can be damaged , he recommends a different plug as well as he doesn't like the standard one

That's how I saw the video ? I don't take any experts opinions too seriously ,most have agendas and by looking across a broad range you can see a consensus , you have backed up what he says , so I feel he has helped some of us , I have shown the bikes don't run lean as STD which is the general thought , then people say it's actually not much better on fuel , and can't see the contradiction lol