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DrGoon

HELP VIN Number troubles..

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I'm wondering if any one on here can help me out:

I've had to buy a new frame for my DRZ 125 as my current one is damaged beyond repair and this is where i'm having problems. Currently my bike is road registered and in the UK (unsure about any where else) the VIN is attached to the registration so technically speaking a VIN swap would mean re-registering the vehicle which is more effort than i can be bothered with. It'd be nice and simple to just slip with some stamps and the VIN conveniently appear on the other frame wouldn't it 😉 This is where i'm having trouble though as the VIN is stamped directly to the head tube: does anyone think i'd have any trouble arise if the one on the other frame disappeared and a plate replaced it with the one registered to the bike? I know most dirt bikes have them stamped to the head tube (probably so thieves can't just swap stuff around) but i'm wondering if using plates is something that has actually been done in recent decades as i've only seen it on vehicles that are older than me 😂😂

image.png.eebbe6cdd8eae989991a762e92805d22.png

Looking at doing something like this above?

Yes i know the legality of what i'm doing is...erm... questionable before anybody a says.

image.png

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I don't know UK laws but in the US it against the law to alter the VIN.

The Honda distributor in the US will stamp a replacement frame with your VIN, contact your local dealer for info.

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4 minutes ago, HevyRotashunz said:

Do it the right way. Mostly because if you ever sold the bike you'd be passing along your offense.

I can see where you're coming from because technically as soon as the vin gets a good old switcharoo it's legally speaking been stolen hasn't it 🙄 Despite the frame being legally purchased, with bill of sale yada yada. See i'm just worried that the DVLA will tell me i can't rebuild it as another bike because when they see it they'll realize it shouldn't be used on the road.

 

8 minutes ago, Chuck. said:

I don't know UK laws but in the US it against the law to alter the VIN.

The Honda distributor in the US will stamp a replacement frame with your VIN, contact your local dealer for info.

Oh i know it's illegal 😂So is half the riding we do though, not anywhere really in England where it's legal to ride unless you go to a MX track or a "green lane": doesn't stop me.

It's a suzuki BTW, just used that image as an example. I also can't stamp it as a new frame because it isn't a new frame, it's second hand from a breaker.

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Can the Breaker provide you with the title for the frame?
One other option is to carefully cut out the VIN on the new frame and braze in the VIN from the old frame. Careful work with a Dremel cutoff wheel and it won't be detectable by an observer.

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9 minutes ago, Chuck. said:

Can the Breaker provide you with the title for the frame?
One other option is to carefully cut out the VIN on the new frame and braze in the VIN from the old frame. Careful work with a Dremel cutoff wheel and it won't be detectable by an observer.

Only thing i have is a bill of sale unfortunately, with them not being road legal typically there was no title provided. I can see what you're thinking however: reckon i go over top or cut other one out and weld in place?

In case anyone is wondering too i did go through the lengthy experience of getting in touch with the DVLA over in the US (cost a fortune in phone calls) and confirmed it wasn't reported stolen.

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3 minutes ago, DrGoon said:

Only thing i have is a bill of sale unfortunately, with them not being road legal typically there was no title provided. I can see what you're thinking however: reckon i go over top or cut other one out and weld in place?

In case anyone is wondering too i did go through the lengthy experience of getting in touch with the DVLA over in the US (cost a fortune in phone calls) and confirmed it wasn't reported stolen.

I suggested brazing because of lower heat but a good TIG welder could fasten it in place and then some expoxy body puty and hand finishing. Be careful not to sand down any of the raised parts of the VIN stamping.  This was an old method of making XRs street legal using an XL vin.

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2 minutes ago, Chuck. said:

I suggested brazing because of lower heat but a good TIG welder could fasten it in place and then some expoxy body puty and hand finishing. Be careful not to sand down any of the raised parts of the VIN stamping.  This was an old method of making XRs street legal using an XL vin.

I like your thinking, i'll have to see who i know who's trustworthy & can TIG well.

 

I'd swap the VIN over if i knew that the DVLA would be okay with it remaining street legal, but if they inspected it they really wouldn't😂It's got "not for highway use" written all over it: looking into the history of it it's only legal because it's an import, has to be registered if it's imported in the UK.
 

 

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I like your thinking, i'll have to see who i know who's trustworthy & can TIG well.
 
I'd swap the VIN over if i knew that the DVLA would be okay with it remaining street legal, but if they inspected it they really wouldn'tIt's got "not for highway use" written all over it: looking into the history of it it's only legal because it's an import, has to be registered if it's imported in the UK.
 
 
Put it this way when you buy a vehicle it is your property so you can do what you like with your property no matter what anyone says if I was to buy a brand new Aston Martin take it home and remove the chassis number there is nothing stopping me as it is my property and once i have purchased it i can do what i wish . that saying why don't you leave the chassis number on the frame and stamp your one next to it just put a line through the middle of it with a dremel so if you do get any problems from the police you can explain that it has had a frame change and they can check both sets of numbers and you can be on your way that's what people used to do when re shelling a car

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Need to make sure it looks perfect as its now checked As part of the mot laws this year , iv seen it done a couple of times weld the old stamp over grind it back then re stamp ,Obviously its not legal or legit but just a vin plate isn’t enough needs actually to be stamped into the frame 

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In most countries any alteration of a serial number makes the identity of the vehicle suspect and liable to confiscation and destruction because the true owner can never be identified. Tread these waters VERY carefully.

DOT here has a system of entering new (to the province) frames into the system, but if it was off-road only, will not road legalize it. A decade ago they were more open to the concept, and have "grandfathered" those bikes, but will not do any more. 

You can legally repair a section of frame with welding replacement in from another frame, but to try to cut out a VIN is clearly circumventing the spirit of the law. Typically the VIN is on the headstock, have good frame specialist do the repair with the boneyard frame leaving your VIN intact?

The way a fudged VIN goes bad is a MOT/DOT inspection reports a suspicion, or a routine inspection notes an irregularity, or an accident brings attention to it. From there, you never see the bike again even if you fight it out in court. Many cops are well trained in spotting this. 

Edited by sbest
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 DrGoon, the very idea of going on the net to ask how to commit an illegal act is beyond my comprehension. Altering a vin# is illegal. Involving others in your plan to commit an illegal act is a conspiracy. Do some things behind closed doors with the drapes closed. Some people regard this as being legal as long as they do not get caught. DrGoon, do not get caught.

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Find that good welder and weld the old headstock on the replacement frame. Likely the replacement frame is tweaked anyway, most are, even when new.

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Have a chat with your local MoT bandit "off the record"....

They might be able to give you some advice as to what they "can't see" at MoT time. (know what I mean?)  Frame check I think is part of the MoT.

Or ask the DVLA, they were helpful last time I rung them.  And there was no waiting in a queue!

My bikes are stamped on the headstock, but like someone else has said, strike through the old one and remark.

But, if my ageing, beer fuddled brain recalls, you need a logbook for the new frame for it to be truly legal.

Hope this helps

Paul

 

PS For our American friends:-

DVLA = Driver Vehicle and Licensing Agency - Says it all

MoT= Annual inspection for all vehicles over three years old (Ministry of Transport)

Fuddled = Not sure what the day of the week it is (....age/beer/sleep deprivation/party)

 

 

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3 hours ago, wdietz said:

Find that good welder and weld the old headstock on the replacement frame. Likely the replacement frame is tweaked anyway, most are, even when new.

Not saying this is a suggestion... but technically to accomplish this goal but with less risk, you could cut the portion of the old frame containing the VIN and just weld that piece over top of the new frame VIN, right where it's supposed to go.  You might even have an argument that this isn't illegal, as you're simply transferring the old VIN to the new frame.  The old frame won't exist anymore so there is still only 1 frame in the world with that VIN.  

Edited by sirthumpalot

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If you was to buy a new frame from manufacture or car body shell / chassis they come with no numbers stamped on them all new chassis come with no numbers

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14 hours ago, dubsy said:

If you was to buy a new frame from manufacture or car body shell / chassis they come with no numbers stamped on them all new chassis come with no numbers

This was discussed earlier, com'on dubsy, stick with the conversation... 

The dealer stamps them and fills out documentation. 

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This was discussed earlier, com'on dubsy, stick with the conversation... 
The dealer stamps them and fills out documentation. 
I think you need to do your research before commenting the dealers might stamp them but the majority of manufacturers DONT why would you buy a frame from a dealer when you can buy direct from a manufacturer. which I know for a fact dont stamp them as you are buying a chassis not a title

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