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Any XR200 Performance Parts Available?

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My 1986 XR200R finally let go. This may sound crazy but I basically restored the chassis and left the engine alone because it was running... not anymore ha. Ive been waiting for that to happen for a while now, and I'm kind of relieved haha. That means now I get to freshen it up. It seems like I can't find any performance parts for these bikes anymore though.. No big bore kits or cams or anything. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places? I also can only find an FMF pipe for these bikes, does anyone make a full exhaust system? Im thinking of just going back with all new OEM parts and the FMF slip on. Any info or ideas are greatly appreciated! :ride:

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XRsOnly makes a great header pipe for the XR200s as well as a muffler for a full system. I use the header and mod the muffler inlets to fit.

Powroll makes the best cams, most are variations on Megacycle grinds, but must be ordered thru Powroll or Terry Miller (Team Rude on TT).

Wiseco makes oversize and high compression pistons. Powroll or Team Rude will machine any compression ratio you want on the dome.

I've been running a Powroll XR218 engine since May of 2010 and it is fantastic in the woods.

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28 minutes ago, Chuck. said:

XRsOnly makes a great header pipe for the XR200s as well as a muffler for a full system. I use the header and mod the muffler inlets to fit.

Powroll makes the best cams, most are variations on Megacycle grinds, but must be ordered thru Powroll or Terry Miller (Team Rude on TT).

Wiseco makes oversize and high compression pistons. Powroll or Team Rude will machine any compression ratio you want on the dome.

I've been running a Powroll XR218 engine since May of 2010 and it is fantastic in the woods.

 

So Chuck, I know that you know whats up with the 200's and Im trying to build this thing right. We have tight gnarly single track woods here in WNC, I want this bike to have great torque but also good power throughout. I know its a 200 but I just love these bikes and I don't expect a hot rod haha what would you recommend for the best power/reliability??

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The bore is all ready maxxed out in the 200, so there is no room for a big bore kit.

A stroker crank kit really wakes these things up.  The only source for them "Terry Miller" has kind of dried up since he has been absent as of late.

The Web Cam 89a is available and a good choice.

XR's only complete exhaust is a very nice and properly designed.  The stock header is the problem, a slip on does not fix that. You would be better off with the stock muffler and the xr's only header.

Performance is expensive on these bikes.  I have a disturbing amount of money invested into a 240cc motor.

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Yes, they can be a money pit.

With proper maintenance the engines can be long lived, I installed a 0.5mm larger 10.5:1 piston in an 83 XR200R engine and for next decade used the bike for PNW Enduro competitions, which involved up to two 70+ mile events a month. The big maintenance items were the brakes (drum) and chassis, not the engine. I also trail rode the bike on other weekends so lots of miles. I checked the compression in 2010 before giving the bike to my son, it was 172psi.

To the OP; the mods you select should be based on the terrain you ride, your skill level, and the depth of your pockets. I've owned a lot of bikes over the years and most were open class but in late 79 or early 80 my ridding bud and I rode a XR185 and decided the power delivery was what we needed for the type of terrain we were riding in Enduros, but not the chassis. Then Suzuki introduced the RM Full Floater MX bikes, so I installed a XR185 motor in a RM125, then in 81 a XR200 engine, then the 83 XR200R engine.  As much as I liked my Husky CR400 the little R just worked better in the gnarl, and the RM chassis was less tiring during long Enduros. As a result I'm a big fan of Hondas 2 valve sub 250 engines.

As for engine power there is night/day difference between a XR200 (194cc) and a Powroll stroker at 218cc. The CRF230 (223cc) has a slightly longer stroke so may be a better base for a big build.  If you want estart then install a CRF230F engine. Chadzu created a thread on his conversion.

Wiseco sells forged pistons for the XR200/CRF230 engines in a variety of compression ratios. The cylinder sleeve  thickness where it inserts into the crankcase limit overbore sizes; safe at 0.5mm for hard use like competition, easy riding maybe 1.0mm overbore. Bigger requires a new sleeve and boring the cases ($$$).

High compression helps bottom end but needs to be matched to the cam. 11:1 with the torque cam, 10.5 with stock cam. The 230 has a better combustion chamber so is not as sensitive to high CRs. Flywheel weight helps smooth bottom end and reduces flameouts, but IMO the 86+ engines have just about the optimum flywheel weight. The TLR200 rotors are 19oz heavier and really smooth bottom end but the taper is larger so you need the left crank or the complete crank. The 230s have a much heavier crank assembly so would be smoother on low end but many feel it needs to be lightened.

My last two builds were Powroll 218 strokers with 11:1 pistons, one with the Powroll Torque cam, and one for a friend with the stock cam (piston modded for slighly lessCR). With both builds you can run one gear higher than stock, my 218 will climb anything from any speed in second gear. Both with rejetted stock carbs. His with stock exhaust, mine XRsOnly header and a CRF250X muffler.  His feels slightly softer, and smoother,  on the bottom compared to mine but he is running one tooth less on the countershaft, which is 8%, plus the cam and exhaust differences. The smoothness is probably from the heavier TLR rotor.  My bike/rider combo is about 10-12% heavier than his but in a drag race mine just runs away.

So the easiest mod to improve performance in the woods is one tooth less on the countershaft, then upgrade the suspension before modding the engine. 

Easy rebuild is a 10.5:1 66.0mm Wiseco piston, different exhaust system, etc. When rebuilding you should check valves and valve guides, replace timing chain and sliders, maybe cam chain sprockets, check rod big and small ends, etc. 

 

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I own 5 bikes, one of which is a 2002 XR200.  They are great, dependable bikes stock, engineered for what they are.  I once rode with 8 riders in the woods where you had to watch your bars clipping the trees, I was on a 1989 XR200 and nobody on all the newer big bore bikes could catch nor pass me.

As some have mentioned it is costly to go performance.  I would say just get a new PIPE and use stock piston and ....

If you want more performance then I recommend you buy a diff bike with more cc or find an old KTM200.  For the money you'll do better than "building" your xr200. 

Thats my take.  :)

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21 hours ago, brraaapperdoodle said:

My 1986 XR200R finally let go. This may sound crazy but I basically restored the chassis and left the engine alone because it was running... not anymore ha. Ive been waiting for that to happen for a while now, and I'm kind of relieved haha. That means now I get to freshen it up. It seems like I can't find any performance parts for these bikes anymore though.. No big bore kits or cams or anything. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places? I also can only find an FMF pipe for these bikes, does anyone make a full exhaust system? Im thinking of just going back with all new OEM parts and the FMF slip on. Any info or ideas are greatly appreciated! :ride:

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nice looking bike, mine is just starting to smoke a little & I've been waiting for this. My mechanic friend is about 70 & used to do dirt track nationals & raced a few bikes but said his fav motor was the 200. He said he did a little head work, a web cam & a little more compression & he showed me a couple cam sprockets he had made for 2 or 4 degree ignition changes. He said he could drop peak hp about 1 - 1.5k rpm or 2 - 2.5k with these , depending on track length & dirt conditions, & he thinks this would work great for single track fine tuning. I guess it's time to pull motor & get it done. 

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11 hours ago, chadzu said:

The bore is all ready maxxed out in the 200, so there is no room for a big bore kit.

A stroker crank kit really wakes these things up.  The only source for them "Terry Miller" has kind of dried up since he has been absent as of late.

The Web Cam 89a is available and a good choice.

XR's only complete exhaust is a very nice and properly designed.  The stock header is the problem, a slip on does not fix that. You would be better off with the stock muffler and the xr's only header.

Performance is expensive on these bikes.  I have a disturbing amount of money invested into a 240cc motor.

 Chadzu I was looking at the webcam 389a, are you running this & what do you think, Also they have  a 1mm. oversized intake valve, do you think any noticeable benefit from this, just trying to make a parts list, thanks  

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Dang, thanks for all the replies! I know building a performance engine is expensive, and not necessarily what I'm trying to do. The motor was noisy and smoked and I ignored it knowing it would eventually quit, and it did. So I will need to rebuild this engine and was just trying to decide how much performance is worth the cost. I Will probably go with the XR's only full exhaust system for sure, and any other engine internals that need to be replaced. Im expecting new valves and springs, valve seats recut, new cam chain/tensioner/gears, new piston and rings and obviously gaskets and seals. 

 

Just to be clear this is not my main bike. This is a bike I let friends ride and my girlfriend loves this thing. So its staying in the family and I searched for a long time to find it. It was a shit pile when I got it but like I said, I restored the chassis, rebuilt the suspension and linkage, new steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, cables, chain and sprockets, plastic and decals, blah blah blah. 

 

So, whats worth while for the engine, a high comp piston and a cam and full exhaust? Or just better off with stock internals and a full exhaust?

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11 hours ago, trackerdog said:

 Chadzu I was looking at the webcam 389a, are you running this & what do you think, Also they have  a 1mm. oversized intake valve, do you think any noticeable benefit from this, just trying to make a parts list, thanks  

Yes, I have the 89a in my stroker motor.  It works very well and isn't quite as crazy as the full race cam like the 214.  The only down side I have found is that the camshaft is noisy.  The more aggressive ramps make for more clatter. Its normal and you have to live with it.

I used stock sized Kibblewhite black diamond valves and their bronze guides.  I don't think the oversized intake valve really helps unless you have extensive port work done and are going for more of a race motor.

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11 hours ago, brraaapperdoodle said:

Dang, thanks for all the replies! I know building a performance engine is expensive, and not necessarily what I'm trying to do. The motor was noisy and smoked and I ignored it knowing it would eventually quit, and it did. So I will need to rebuild this engine and was just trying to decide how much performance is worth the cost. I Will probably go with the XR's only full exhaust system for sure, and any other engine internals that need to be replaced. Im expecting new valves and springs, valve seats recut, new cam chain/tensioner/gears, new piston and rings and obviously gaskets and seals. 

 

Just to be clear this is not my main bike. This is a bike I let friends ride and my girlfriend loves this thing. So its staying in the family and I searched for a long time to find it. It was a shit pile when I got it but like I said, I restored the chassis, rebuilt the suspension and linkage, new steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, cables, chain and sprockets, plastic and decals, blah blah blah. 

 

So, whats worth while for the engine, a high comp piston and a cam and full exhaust? Or just better off with stock internals and a full exhaust?

It sounds like you should stick to a stockish rebuild.  Use the Weisco HC piston.  Try not to go over 66mm even though they offer a 67mm.

The full xr's only exhaust is very nice, but at a minimum get the header.

Spend some money on the cam chain and sprockets.  It's not sexy, but its the best way to ensure another 30 years of trouble free xr'ing

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12 minutes ago, chadzu said:

It sounds like you should stick to a stockish rebuild.  Use the Weisco HC piston.  Try not to go over 66mm even though they offer a 67mm.

The full xr's only exhaust is very nice, but at a minimum get the header.

Spend some money on the cam chain and sprockets.  It's not sexy, but its the best way to ensure another 30 years of trouble free xr'ing

Is the 89a cam useful with just a high compression piston? or better for a stroker?

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The 89a will add some to the top end on a stock cc motor.  They are expensive though, and you really should get the hardened rockers to go with it. 

A new stock camshaft if you can find one works pretty good, and will save some $ on the rebuild.

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The 89a will add some to the top end on a stock cc motor.  They are expensive though, and you really should get the hardened rockers to go with it. 
A new stock camshaft if you can find one works pretty good, and will save some $ on the rebuild.


Thanks! I’ll stick with just a piston and exhaust for performance upgrades. If I wanted to build a performance engine in the future I’d probably just find a donor and build a different engine. Thanks for all the help
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On 11/27/2018 at 12:42 AM, chadzu said:

The bore is all ready maxxed out in the 200, so there is no room for a big bore kit.

A stroker crank kit really wakes these things up.  The only source for them "Terry Miller" has kind of dried up since he has been absent as of late.

The Web Cam 89a is available and a good choice.

XR's only complete exhaust is a very nice and properly designed.  The stock header is the problem, a slip on does not fix that. You would be better off with the stock muffler and the xr's only header.

Performance is expensive on these bikes.  I have a disturbing amount of money invested into a 240cc motor.

Offset stroker crank pins are the only way to go. 4mm pin and a CRF230 high comp piston kit with a stock rod. 225cc

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5 minutes ago, greenhuman said:

Offset stroker crank pins are the only way to go. 4mm pin and a CRF230 high comp piston kit with a stock rod. 225cc

Mr. Human, can you do custom pins?  Like say for the Zong NC250?

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Depends on the diameter of the stock pins. I mainly do 30mm as in stock ATC/XR185 and 200's, CRF230 and some of the air cooled zongshen 250's. With that engine having such a big bore you will probably find the crank pin is 32mm.

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5 minutes ago, greenhuman said:

Depends on the diameter of the stock pins. I mainly do 30mm as in stock ATC/XR185 and 200's, CRF230 and some of the air cooled zongshen 250's. With that engine having such a big bore you will probably find the crank pin is 32mm.

How do we contact you for purchase of your offset crank pins?

Thanks.

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   Hey Greemhuman, I've got one of your 4mm pins (from Ricky), and a new 446 rod. Gonna put it together with a 230 piston as you've described. You ever have a problem with wrist pin galling. Every one I've ever pulled apart has been discolored. The crank in my bike now is from an atc200x that I got from the scrapper. The big end was good but the small end was loose. I made an elaborate fixture to hold the crank/rod true and bored it and fitted a bushing. It's been running great for 5-6 years now. Be pretty easy to bush the new rod before rebuilding the crank (the bike's original which is on the bench with a trashed big end). I made the bushing out of Materion's ToughMet 3 AT110. It's what their engineers recommended. It's some kind of "high fallootin" bronze alloy. A bunch of high end speed shops are using it for valve guides and the occasional valve seats. 

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On 11/27/2018 at 6:39 AM, brraaapperdoodle said:

Is the 89a cam useful with just a high compression piston? or better for a stroker?

Depends on the power you want.  For trail riding I found mild is better. Terry Miller commented on cams in this thread: https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1086022-xr200s-are-crappy-and-slow/?page=6

Here are some cam specs:

828004095_XR200Cams.thumb.JPG.aee8d039f91d91944c64cd9bd3edab6d.JPG

985120696_XR200Cams2.thumb.JPG.dcee14fc746b39fae13529447e531d8a.JPG

General observation on cams: The stock XR185/200 cam is the most aggressive of the 2 valve sub 250 air cooled engines, that include the 150/230Fs. However they work very good in a larger displacement engine. A XR218 build has about 50% more torque than stock so very noticeable while riding.  Stock exhaust and cam on a 218 works good but adding the Torque cam and an exhaust system very noticeably increases bottom end torque and horsepower. The downside is the engine will flame out easier which is why I use 1st gear for difficult sections to reduce risk of a flame out, I also cover the clutch for added insurance.  

I have done back to back rides several times on the two 218 builds mentioned above, and I used the P714 cam in three different builds. The 714cam is a nice cam but it is noticeably softer on the bottom compared to the Torque cam, which some riders may prefer. IMO either cam is a good trail riding cam.

Edited by Chuck.
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