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Utah_2T

Beta quality slipping?

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Hello Group,

I've been a long time lurker but here's my first post.  I have ridden Yamahas (YZ250's) for the last 20 years but Beta has intrigued me more and more.  I have been following this group and have watched all of Barry's informative vids.  I am a little alarmed at one of his latest vids stating the decline in quality control of their bikes.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiupJjNW88w&t=0s  starts at 3:42 if you haven't seen it.  

I am interested in a 250 RR Race edition and am aware of the anodizing issues on both the OC and CC forks.  Is it too early to tell if the 2019's have solved the fork issue?  How much should I budget to have the anodizing done correctly.  I would have it done at the same time I send the forks in for a revalve and resprung for my weight.  Who does the best job on the anodizing?  How are the electrics on the Race editions holding up?  It would seem the schematics would be much simpler since they don't have oil injection or lighting systems.  Lastly, what would be a fair price on a 2018 leftover or am I just better off getting a 2019 and hoping the quality control is better?

Thank you for your insight.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Utah_2T said:

Hello Group,

I've been a long time lurker but here's my first post.  I have ridden Yamahas (YZ250's) for the last 20 years but Beta has intrigued me more and more.  I have been following this group and have watched all of Barry's informative vids.  I am a little alarmed at one of his latest vids stating the decline in quality control of their bikes.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiupJjNW88w&t=0s  starts at 3:42 if you haven't seen it.  

I am interested in a 250 RR Race edition and am aware of the anodizing issues on both the OC and CC forks.  Is it too early to tell if the 2019's have solved the fork issue?  How much should I budget to have the anodizing done correctly.  I would have it done at the same time I send the forks in for a revalve and resprung for my weight.  Who does the best job on the anodizing?  How are the electrics on the Race editions holding up?  It would seem the schematics would be much simpler since they don't have oil injection or lighting systems.  Lastly, what would be a fair price on a 2018 leftover or am I just better off getting a 2019 and hoping the quality control is better?

Thank you for your insight.

 

 

Friend had his OC 2017 forks re-anodized for $250. He doesn't have electrical issues but he did remove the OI. My 15 didn't have OI and the forks are great.

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 Barry Morris it would appear is more concerned about monetization and portraying himself as the definitive authority on all things Beta rather than providing any well considered content. imo. Do Beta's have issues?,Absolutely. So do KTM's. Are Yamaha's superior in build quality and pre delivery qc? Absolutely. Based on the particular video in question one would come away thinking that the current crop of Beta's are complete shit. Not impressed Oz.

That being said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether on this forum, a Youtube entertainment channel, or anywhere else deemed appropriate.

 

 

Edited by widebear
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Its a bummer they can't get those CC forks worked out, if you prefer to pay an extra grand for your bike and then complain about the forks the RE is the way to go.   

My 18' 250rr is the only bike I haven't swapped for KYB's yet, they work as good as OC forks can with stock valving, but I never let the oil in any forks go past 20 hours.   

I've owned seven Beta's, one 450rr, my only gripe with the wiring is that there is way to much of it, Berry's comment was the 4t's and I'd guess the EFI 4t's.

I constantly swap bikes while out riding, and still wouldn't go back to orange.       

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I would have to agree about bolts not being tight. That's an easy fix though. About 15 minutes of going through and checking everything solved the issue. My only other issue was with a fluid leak around the thermostat housing. Apparently the stock coolant tends to hit the boiling point too low and builds too much pressure. Swapped it out for some Engine Ice and a new housing O ring (which may not have been necessary) and it was good. 2018 390 RRS.

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I'll second the point that despite the (small) number of issues I have experienced with my RR300 I will not be going back to Orange either. Both the poor quality of the Zoke fork internals and the electrical gremlins  have  ended up teaching me a lot about forks and electricals during the repair phase!!!

For a very small motorcycle company they have introduced improvements in off road motorcycling out of all proportion to their market share. 

I too jump on mates bikes all the time, and though some may now be smoother, and some may weigh less, I'll be sticking with my Beta 300. It just suits me best, end of story.

But I would have hoped that being such a small company would have allowed them to be more agile in responding to issues that have emerged.

Bottom line, buy the bike and work through any of the issues if/as they surface. There's a wealth of info out there to help you sort it.

 

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Rode a 2016RE 480 and fell in love instantly. I then knew my next bike would be a Beta. 6 months later I bought a 300RE new on closeout. If I need to spend $250 to get the forks hard anodized I really don't care. In the total cost of motorcycle ownership it's not that much money. Guys routinely spend $1,200 on valving, however, I do my own fork valving, so again, $250 isn't that much. I've already spent twice that getting all my guards in place.

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While riding Walker Valley today (tech NW stuff) I was thinking to myself how much I like my OC Sachs. With the correct springs and Steve’s revalve they are really good. He also anodized my warrantied tubes for me. Total price for that and a fork and shock revalve was very good. Much cheaper than what some spend on here for suspension swaps.

Edited by NW_drZ
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Having had several Beta’s every year since 2013 I’ll say some of the quality control did seem to slip a little as they went through some growing pains a couple years ago.  Nothing I would call major, just some little things that needed addressing. 

In 2018 we got a total of 5 Betas. 2- RR’s and 3 Evo trials bikes. No quality issues at all! Seems to me they cleaned it all up. 

 

 

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I added too much oil to the transmission on my first oil change. So i used the bolt that allows you to check the tranny oil. I let the extra oil out that hole. When i went to put that bolt back in, it would not tighten down. Pulled the bolt back out and noticed it was encased in aluminium. Was not sure what to do, but was told i needed to heli-coil it. I do not have a lot of mechanical experience and was afraid of making it worse by trying to do it myself. The bike sat for 2 weeks and i got tired of it being broken, so i took it to the dealer. He told me he could do it or i could do it myself. The bike would be fixed quicker if i fixed it myself. He also told me i could put silicone around it and ride today. I tried the silicone and did not trust that. Finally i said F it and went out and put a heli-coil in it. It took me 15 minutes to fix the problem. I was initially afraid of getting metal debris in the tranny oil and having problems. Dealer told me not to worry about a few shavings and that the magnetic drain plug would catch them. If i would have gotten it done 1/2 hour earlier i could have rode with a couple guys today. Oh well it is ready to ride tomorrow.

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15 minutes ago, Eric72 said:

I added too much oil to the transmission on my first oil change. So i used the bolt that allows you to check the tranny oil. I let the extra oil out that hole. When i went to put that bolt back in, it would not tighten down. Pulled the bolt back out and noticed it was encased in aluminium. Was not sure what to do, but was told i needed to heli-coil it. I do not have a lot of mechanical experience and was afraid of making it worse by trying to do it myself. The bike sat for 2 weeks and i got tired of it being broken, so i took it to the dealer. He told me he could do it or i could do it myself. The bike would be fixed quicker if i fixed it myself. He also told me i could put silicone around it and ride today. I tried the silicone and did not trust that. Finally i said F it and went out and put a heli-coil in it. It took me 15 minutes to fix the problem. I was initially afraid of getting metal debris in the tranny oil and having problems. Dealer told me not to worry about a few shavings and that the magnetic drain plug would catch them. If i would have gotten it done 1/2 hour earlier i could have rode with a couple guys today. Oh well it is ready to ride tomorrow.

Always measure out all fluids vice using a check bolt. Purchase maxima quick 2 mix bottle. 

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7 hours ago, Utah_2T said:

Hello Group,

I've been a long time lurker but here's my first post.  I have ridden Yamahas (YZ250's) for the last 20 years but Beta has intrigued me more and more.  I have been following this group and have watched all of Barry's informative vids.  I am a little alarmed at one of his latest vids stating the decline in quality control of their bikes.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiupJjNW88w&t=0s  starts at 3:42 if you haven't seen it.  

I am interested in a 250 RR Race edition and am aware of the anodizing issues on both the OC and CC forks.  Is it too early to tell if the 2019's have solved the fork issue?  How much should I budget to have the anodizing done correctly.  I would have it done at the same time I send the forks in for a revalve and resprung for my weight.  Who does the best job on the anodizing?  How are the electrics on the Race editions holding up?  It would seem the schematics would be much simpler since they don't have oil injection or lighting systems.  Lastly, what would be a fair price on a 2018 leftover or am I just better off getting a 2019 and hoping the quality control is better?

Thank you for your insight.

 

 

Beta's have always had accessories wiring issues.  The engine managment and electrics are industry standard quality.

Sachs forks andodizing issue was corrected at the next model year possible, 2019. Remember, the lead time at the manufacturing level is 3 years minimum.

KTM has always had terrible forks, suspect fuel pumps, weak rear hubs, terrible bottom shock bushings, gas caps, shock collars, etc etc.  Always did, and still do.

The real issue here is if you have actually ridden a Beta. Once you do that, you will understand. They make the easiest to ride bikes ever. Better at that than any other brand.

 

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37 minutes ago, Eric72 said:

I added too much oil to the transmission on my first oil change. So i used the bolt that allows you to check the tranny oil. I let the extra oil out that hole. When i went to put that bolt back in, it would not tighten down. Pulled the bolt back out and noticed it was encased in aluminium. Was not sure what to do, but was told i needed to heli-coil it. I do not have a lot of mechanical experience and was afraid of making it worse by trying to do it myself. The bike sat for 2 weeks and i got tired of it being broken, so i took it to the dealer. He told me he could do it or i could do it myself. The bike would be fixed quicker if i fixed it myself. He also told me i could put silicone around it and ride today. I tried the silicone and did not trust that. Finally i said F it and went out and put a heli-coil in it. It took me 15 minutes to fix the problem. I was initially afraid of getting metal debris in the tranny oil and having problems. Dealer told me not to worry about a few shavings and that the magnetic drain plug would catch them. If i would have gotten it done 1/2 hour earlier i could have rode with a couple guys today. Oh well it is ready to ride tomorrow.

Aluminum shavings would not be picked up by the magnetic drain plug.

The issue is torque. That bolt is 3ftlbs torque max. That is easily over torqued and stripped. 

If you have every owned a Kawasaki or Suzuki dirt bike, you would have experienced this quite often already, even with case bolts......

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5 hours ago, Beta300recat said:

Rode a 2016RE 480 and fell in love instantly. I then knew my next bike would be a Beta. 6 months later I bought a 300RE new on closeout. If I need to spend $250 to get the forks hard anodized I really don't care. In the total cost of motorcycle ownership it's not that much money. Guys routinely spend $1,200 on valving, however, I do my own fork valving, so again, $250 isn't that much. I've already spent twice that getting all my guards in place.

Exactly. It's part of the cost of 'doing business' in our sport.  Something on the bike always needs additional 'help' with engineering or tuning.  Otherwise all our bikes would cost $20k and be perfectly tuned to someone other than the buyer....

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Thanks for all the input....great group. I haven't ridden a Beta yet, but plan on doing so soon. It appeared to me that Barry has been a "pro Beta" person and generally has good things to say about them so I was surprised by the tone of the video. Thanks for the alternate view of his videos.

I'm not concerned with working on the bike, I am mechanically inclined having built and flown a homebuilt aircraft and wrenched on race cars for nearly 2 decades. I just retired 5 months ago and I would rather ride than continually be fixing things. ALL dirt bikes require enough maintenance, I just don't care to be doing continuous repairs if the bike has constant quality problems.

I disassemble and go through all my new bikes so lose nuts and bolts don't bother me. The input here sounds more like assembly issues and not overall subpar material issues with the exception of the forks.

I was under the impression that the OC forks have the same anodizing issues, is this not the case? I would also consider the standard RR model, but than I would have to deal with the OI issue.

Thanks again for the guidance!

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8 hours ago, Utah_2T said:

Hello Group,

I've been a long time lurker but here's my first post.  I have ridden Yamahas (YZ250's) for the last 20 years but Beta has intrigued me more and more.  I have been following this group and have watched all of Barry's informative vids.  I am a little alarmed at one of his latest vids stating the decline in quality control of their bikes.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiupJjNW88w&t=0s  starts at 3:42 if you haven't seen it.  

I am interested in a 250 RR Race edition and am aware of the anodizing issues on both the OC and CC forks.  Is it too early to tell if the 2019's have solved the fork issue?  How much should I budget to have the anodizing done correctly.  I would have it done at the same time I send the forks in for a revalve and resprung for my weight.  Who does the best job on the anodizing?  How are the electrics on the Race editions holding up?  It would seem the schematics would be much simpler since they don't have oil injection or lighting systems.  Lastly, what would be a fair price on a 2018 leftover or am I just better off getting a 2019 and hoping the quality control is better?

Thank you for your insight.

 

 

Link doesn’t work.. 

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5 minutes ago, Utah_2T said:

Thanks for all the input....great group. I haven't ridden a Beta yet, but plan on doing so soon. It appeared to me that Barry has been a "pro Beta" person and generally has good things to say about them so I was surprised by the tone of the video. Thanks for the alternate view of his videos.

I'm not concerned with working on the bike, I am mechanically inclined having built and flown a homebuilt aircraft and wrenched on race cars for nearly 2 decades. I just retired 5 months ago and I would rather ride than continually be fixing things. ALL dirt bikes require enough maintenance, I just don't care to be doing continuous repairs if the bike has constant quality problems.

I disassemble and go through all my new bikes so lose nuts and bolts don't bother me. The input here sounds more like assembly issues and not overall subpar material issues with the exception of the forks.

I was under the impression that the OC forks have the same anodizing issues, is this not the case? I would also consider the standard RR model, but than I would have to deal with the OI issue.

Thanks again for the guidance!

Some have anodizing issues and some don’t. What’s the percent that  do and don’t??  Who knows? Thats the  thing about the internet people jump to conclusions either way. I’m sure some have had issues but I don’t know any that have with any of their Betas locally and I haven’t. It just depends I guess.    I have a 15 300 rr. It’s great to me with oc sachs fork, no oi and comes with a kick starter. If Id buy now Id get a race edition and have suspension done first and put a kicker on. I might go with Beta factory suspension too for that matter . I came from goldvalved resprung showas on my cr earlier. 

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My buddy has a 2018 300RR. I rode it. Great bike and no issues that I have heard of. Personally I like my YZ250 better. Simple as can be and bulletproof. I don't ride on the street, so it has everything I need and nothing I don't.

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