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Beta quality slipping?

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5 hours ago, Piney Woods said:

I get the impression you had issues with the GG. Please explain. If I buy another 2stk, GG and Beta are on my short list. Both have good dealers so the diff will be the bike alone.

Yes, I did, Piney Woods. My 2018 GG 250 was very difficult to jet - even after the head was reshaped by Australia’s best 2-t tuner and I had the flywheel nut retorqued to spec and the Woodruff key condition and position checked. The bike spooged like a mofo &/or ran on depending on minute changes to jetting. I was told it had the later, “better” ignition map. My electric start didn’t work well, either. Haven’t seen any other ‘18 GG 250’s with the specific motor issues I had, so I either got a lemon or forgot how to jet a bike overnight. After 6 months, I ran out of patience & went back to a Beta - a v low hour ‘18 RR300. 

In the interest of fairness, most of my riding crew have ‘18 GG 300’s/GP’s & after head reshaping to lower squish, they are over the moon with their bikes.

Edited by KatoKonvert
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If you are looking for a bike brand without quality issues you will be looking a long time. I think that some of what you hear about Beta is a result of buying from a growing company, When you grow you have to continuously hire new help and ask them to do things that they are not accustom to and not all care about precision and quality. If Italy and Beta North America are like here, finding good help is very difficult. Like many have said a lot of this can be taken care of by a good dealer. After all of that is accounted for, Beta is great to ride. The group I ride with is mainly orange and I get to ride their bikes regularly. From my experience with KDM I would not give up my Beta. This does not mean that KDM is a bad bike, they are great, however, Beta is uniquely better in subtle ways. I think that the main thing that I take away is confidence of an easy to ride bike. You can find a bike that hits harder, and you could find a bike with a suspension that suits you better, however it all comes back to a complete package and power and suspension does not always translate to safe speed. Barry Morris originally sold me on Beta and I am glad he did. Only orange Koolaid was available around here, which tastes good on occasion but i'd rather have a steady diet of of the redish stuff. 

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The beta 250/300 motor was designed by ex KDM engineers,  arguable improvement......until kdm redesigned with a balance shaft and proper estart.  Beta drops the kickstart to try to keep up  :  )

2 friends broke yz starter shafts here. Maybe one reason yamaha lowered the compression on the x,  the other reason to smooth the bottom end to be more kdm like, since they couldn't do it with the power valve system they use.  Fix the the starter shaft is in a 426

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10 hours ago, Beta300recat said:

Every time I push the 'go' button and a two-stroke fires up, it blows my mind. Still not used to the idea of a 2t with electric start. :D

Mine worked great today!

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10 hours ago, Beta300recat said:

Every time I push the 'go' button and a two-stroke fires up, it blows my mind. Still not used to the idea of a 2t with electric start. :D

I’ve got an old KDM with a kicker to make me remember that buttons are better. Not bad tho, at least it won’t snap in two. :busted:

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I had a 2017 500 rrs with an electrical issue that was never resolved by dealer. they ended up pay my load and taking bike back never to be seen again. It had the low idol issue and wouldn't run over 6000 feet. Eventually after they told me that how these bikes are the bike skipped a tooth on on timing.

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The biggest issues with Beta have been forks (coating failure) and electrical. Electrical is easy to fix with good post delivery prep. Hopefully they have a handle on the fork issues now. Everything else on the bike has been above average. You always should go over anything new before riding it.

Estart only gave me occasional misfires with Li ion battery. I will always have a kicker for that reason. I've seen guys break various kick starter parts. You usually find these guys "slap kick" the bike from the very top of the stroke, rather than kick once the mechanism is engaged. A stock YZ 250 has pretty stout compression so that doesn't help.

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My Xtrainer is all right, but...

I bought my first KDX new in 1986...air cooled...rode and raced it.  Then I bought an 88,  then a 90.  Then 3 H model 200's and 4 H model 220's.  I currently have a heavily modified '94 KDX200.  In some ways it's a better bike than the Xtrainer, but for the electric start.

I  never had a failure with any one of those bikes.  I rode the piss out of them. NO FAILURES EVER.

 

 

emodel2.jpg

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I had a 2017 500 rrs with an electrical issue that was never resolved by dealer. they ended up pay my load and taking bike back never to be seen again. It had the low idol issue and wouldn't run over 6000 feet. Eventually after they told me that how these bikes are the bike skipped a tooth on on timing.

Sorry this sounds very far fetched. Was this an authorized dealer?
These four stroke DO NOT JUMP timing. Sounds like someone adjusted the valves and set the cams wrong.
This smells really fishy......
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You shouldn't pay 10k and get the bike home, ride it once and experience flameout and gas tank gauge failures. Let's see if I can recall it in order;

Pre delivery inspection -
Lose bolts (to be expected)
Looked like someone at the factory had a bad day and mared up the engine mount bolts under tank.

First ride -
Gas gauge quit working
Low idol knock
Flameout

Returned to dealer 3 hours away

Second ride 3 weeks later -
Rode good up until 6000 ft then wouldn't idol.
Pushed it down road until it finally would run (kickstart useless)

Returned to deal yet again

Ecm, battery, charging system, throttlebody, misc electrical replaced

2 MONTHS later third ride -
Took bike to coast, 85 mile ride one direction. Still running funny, got to top of mountain had the low idol stumble and engine knock then eventually skipped timing. Left it in ditch overnight and finally returned to dealer never to be seen again.

I spent ALOT of time researching this bike before I bought. Was confident and purchased a fmf slip-on, and some other goodies. Turned out to be the worst paperwork, lemon law nightmare I have dealt with. Lost alot of money and time. And for the record I'm sure you die hard beta riders are going to come at me so before you call me a millennial with no ability to turn a wrench or any bike knowledge who wanted the shiny bike -- not true. If you'd like to debate it we can. But as for the beta, this was my experience.

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13 hours ago, highmarker said:

2 friends broke yz starter shafts here. Maybe one reason yamaha lowered the compression on the x...

Meh! Mine worked great when I rode it Friday, as it has since 2005. Justify all you want, broken kick shafts are not a reason to avoid a YZ. There are other reasons to buy a Beta, or not.

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Arrowtree551

That's awful.  That's my nightmare about any of the newer high-tech thumpers.  Getting stranded and nothing you can do to fix 'em.   If I had the experience you had, I'd probably be forced into living in a padded cell somewhere.

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2 hours ago, GP said:

The biggest issues with Beta have been forks (coating failure) and electrical. Electrical is easy to fix with good post delivery prep. Hopefully they have a handle on the fork issues now. Everything else on the bike has been above average. You always should go over anything new before riding it.

Estart only gave me occasional misfires with Li ion battery. I will always have a kicker for that reason. I've seen guys break various kick starter parts. You usually find these guys "slap kick" the bike from the very top of the stroke, rather than kick once the mechanism is engaged. A stock YZ 250 has pretty stout compression so that doesn't help.

 

The kickstart shafts are flawed on the yz's. I was always careful with mine, because I heard of the stories...it finally broke at the bottom of a canyon. Luckily it started as it broke or I would've been SOL. 

Much like Ktm, the problem arised because they cut a minuscule amount of weight from a part of the bike that you shouldn't worry about weight reduction on. There is a fix however, the <01 mechanism and side case bolt up to the '02s and don't use the same thin-walled shaft. 

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2 hours ago, GP said:

. A stock YZ 250 has pretty stout compression so that doesn't help.

Yamaha foolishly replaced the stout 426 mechasnism with one from a yz250f in 2002. Never had any other kicker issues in 11 years except that bike.

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3 hours ago, Arrowtree551 said:

You shouldn't pay 10k and get the bike home, ride it once and experience flameout and gas tank gauge failures. Let's see if I can recall it in order;

Pre delivery inspection -
Lose bolts (to be expected)
Looked like someone at the factory had a bad day and mared up the engine mount bolts under tank.

First ride -
Gas gauge quit working
Low idol knock
Flameout

Returned to dealer 3 hours away

Second ride 3 weeks later -
Rode good up until 6000 ft then wouldn't idol.
Pushed it down road until it finally would run (kickstart useless)

Returned to deal yet again

Ecm, battery, charging system, throttlebody, misc electrical replaced

2 MONTHS later third ride -
Took bike to coast, 85 mile ride one direction. Still running funny, got to top of mountain had the low idol stumble and engine knock then eventually skipped timing. Left it in ditch overnight and finally returned to dealer never to be seen again.

I spent ALOT of time researching this bike before I bought. Was confident and purchased a fmf slip-on, and some other goodies. Turned out to be the worst paperwork, lemon law nightmare I have dealt with. Lost alot of money and time. And for the record I'm sure you die hard beta riders are going to come at me so before you call me a millennial with no ability to turn a wrench or any bike knowledge who wanted the shiny bike -- not true. If you'd like to debate it we can. But as for the beta, this was my experience.

Bummer. Too bad you had a bad experience. I guess you are a guy who had a bad experience while everyone else had a good experience. No one wants something to have that happen to them. I’ve had 4 Betas since 2009 and still have 3 as one got stolen. All have worked very well and are solid and reliable.

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Yep, hollow tube to save weight.

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Guess I and almost every other YZ owner got lucky. If it breaks tomorrow I'll fix it in a few minutes and maybe it will last another 13 years. :thumbsup:

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On 12/2/2018 at 4:37 PM, KatoKonvert said:

Yes, I did, Piney Woods. My 2018 GG 250 was very difficult to jet - even after the head was reshaped by Australia’s best 2-t tuner and I had the flywheel nut retorqued to spec and the Woodruff key condition and position checked. The bike spooged like a mofo &/or ran on depending on minute changes to jetting. I was told it had the later, “better” ignition map. My electric start didn’t work well, either. Haven’t seen any other ‘18 GG 250’s with the specific motor issues I had, so I either got a lemon or forgot how to jet a bike overnight. After 6 months, I ran out of patience & went back to a Beta - a v low hour ‘18 RR300. 

In the interest of fairness, most of my riding crew have ‘18 GG 300’s/GP’s & after head reshaping to lower squish, they are over the moon with their bikes.

Thank you.

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9 hours ago, Sierra_rider said:

 

The kickstart shafts are flawed on the yz's. I was always careful with mine, because I heard of the stories...it finally broke at the bottom of a canyon. Luckily it started as it broke or I would've been SOL. 

Much like Ktm, the problem arised because they cut a minuscule amount of weight from a part of the bike that you shouldn't worry about weight reduction on. There is a fix however, the <01 mechanism and side case bolt up to the '02s and don't use the same thin-walled shaft. 

I happen to have a kickstart shaft from a 96 yz250, do you know if that fits the current yz's?
I also have one from a 00 yz125 and 08 yz450f. (I part out bikes)
thanks

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13 minutes ago, traileater said:

I happen to have a kickstart shaft from a 96 yz250, do you know if that fits the current yz's?
I also have one from a 00 yz125 and 08 yz450f. (I part out bikes)
thanks

I guess you could look up part numbers.

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