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Rober Stark

Help for cleaning Stepper Motor

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Hi. I have the problem of unstable idle in my beta 350 rr 2017. The other day I cleaned the stepper motor and I was turning it and now I do not know the correct measurement to which it has to be regulated. In case anyone does not understand what I mean, it looks great in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMYwYeor9Ho at minute 4:37. Can someone tell me what is the correct measure? Thank you.

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It sets it self.  Start bike let it idle until fan comes on then shut off.  Do not give it any throttle during this time. Restart then go ride it.  You can not change it's value does it on it's own.

Later George

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Thanks George but I did it and the problem continues. The idle is up and down all the time, especially with the engine cold. 

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1 hour ago, Rober Stark said:

Thanks George but I did it and the problem continues. The idle is up and down all the time, especially with the engine cold. 

As temps have dropped up here in the NW, I notice my 390 idles up and down several times while it warms up. Letting the bike warm up for 4-5 minutes before ridng is the key. 

Before each ride start bike, don't touch throttle, let it sit for 4-5 minutes warming up, shut off at ignition, restart and ride. 

That's been my procedure before every ride on my 390, and zero problems. 

The only time I had sporadic idle and some mysterious flameouts was last Oct on a day in the 30's. I unloaded, started bike, let it idle for a minute and took off. Problems all day. Did stepper motor reset on next ride then did the procedure above before every ride and no issues since. 

 

Hope this helps. 

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Can't stress enough about having a battery that is better than good needs to be just about perfect.

A lesser battery will start it but not help it run proper.

Throttle cable too tight can cause problems, they need free play.

Later George

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2 minutes ago, uptite said:

No puedo enfatizar lo suficiente sobre tener una batería que sea mejor que buena.

Una batería menor la iniciará pero no la ayudará a funcionar correctamente.

El cable del acelerador demasiado apretado puede causar problemas, necesitan juego libre.

Mas tarde george

Ummmm. I will test the battery. I changed the original and put one of lithium that i had mounted in a Yamaha WR 250,  perhaps this It could be the problem. Thanks! 

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Sometimes the ecu reset does not 'take' until you ride the bike for several minutes.

This has been my experience.

 

You also have to clean the passage leading in and out of the stepper system.

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20 hours ago, firffighter said:

As temps have dropped up here in the NW, I notice my 390 idles up and down several times while it warms up. Letting the bike warm up for 4-5 minutes before ridng is the key. 

Before each ride start bike, don't touch throttle, let it sit for 4-5 minutes warming up, shut off at ignition, restart and ride. 

That's been my procedure before every ride on my 390, and zero problems. 

The only time I had sporadic idle and some mysterious flameouts was last Oct on a day in the 30's. I unloaded, started bike, let it idle for a minute and took off. Problems all day. Did stepper motor reset on next ride then did the procedure above before every ride and no issues since. 

 

Hope this helps. 

Thanks for your answer but, I havent bought a new bike for doing that each time I want to ride. I think that there is a problem and I want to repair it. I will check the battery first because I talked to Beta Spain (my country) and they told me the same that @uptite. Perhaps my Li-on battery is a problem for the injection.

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18 minutes ago, Rober Stark said:

Thanks for your answer but, I havent bought a new bike for doing that each time I want to ride. I think that there is a problem and I want to repair it. I will check the battery first because I talked to Beta Spain (my country) and they told me the same that @uptite. Perhaps my Li-on battery is a problem for the injection.

Sorry you feel that way, but that's the reality of ownership of a modern FI bike. If you don't allow your bike to read ambient temperature and elevation, you won't have a properly running bike. 

Start your bike before you put your gear on, by the time you're ready to go your bike has gone through proper warm up and is ready to go.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but it's really an easy process and will allow the bike to perform at it's best. 

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Let me clarify. If you're riding predominantly the same elevation and temperature ranges, then the warm-up procedure is probably not always necessary. As soon as you have significant changes in temperature or elevation, the warm-up procedure is essential to get top performance out of the bike.

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22 hours ago, Rober Stark said:

Thanks for your answer but, I havent bought a new bike for doing that each time I want to ride. I think that there is a problem and I want to repair it. I will check the battery first because I talked to Beta Spain (my country) and they told me the same that @uptite. Perhaps my Li-on battery is a problem for the injection.

You have to do this with ALL FI dirt bikes. Every brand, model, and year.

They all work the same.  There is no closed loop AF mixture evaluation going on with our bikes.

Yes, Yamaha "R" DS bikes and Honda 250L DS bikes are closed loop, and so were early Cagiva-Husky's.....same with ADV bikes....but those are not dirt bikes.....and not the point.

If you change your surrounding air density or temprature signifigantly, that is when you need to do it.

You can ride without doing it, and your ECU's 'swing' of active adjustment might be adequate, but if you do the reset, you will know for sure it is. 

The Active adjustment is only about 5%, where the total adjustment is about 15% change....but that is not accessible while riding, only during reset.

The stepper motor depends on information from the ECU to operate properly. 

If you don't do the reset, you will notice issues with hanging idle and flat throttle response, and even rich/lean condtions that can cause deceleration popping, and flame out.

 

Oh, and you have to check your chain tension, tire pressure, spoke tension, fuel level, oil levels, air filter, and bolt tightness before each ride too, right ?

Why is this any different ?

 

 

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At least with regards to resetting or getting the motor to learn the temperature to run its best, here has been my experience;

I got my 2017 500 RR-S 02/22/2017.  

When I first started riding in the cold and for a while on certain mornings, the engine would idle high, it would decide to idle high when it felt like it.  I would do the passive reset in the cold and I would also do it in the warm and had pretty much completed it for every condition.  The last time I had done it was last winter when it was cold. 

 

Now that I think of it, I have not done it since maybe this past March and I rode all summer on 90+ degree days and again this past weekend down to 25 degrees and I have not had any of the idling/hunting issues I used to have.  I like to think that somehow, the engine has learned and has compensated for all the possibilities, or that the motor has broken in as it has >3,311 miles and 182 hours and is now ready to go in the snow.  We/I ran the bike all night Saturday night and it performed flawlessly.  

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5 hours ago, KRAYNIAL said:

You have to do this with ALL FI dirt bikes. Every brand, model, and year.

They all work the same.  There is no closed loop AF mixture evaluation going on with our bikes.

Yes, Yamaha "R" DS bikes and Honda 250L DS bikes are closed loop, and so were early Cagiva-Husky's.....same with ADV bikes....but those are not dirt bikes.....and not the point.

If you change your surrounding air density or temprature signifigantly, that is when you need to do it.

You can ride without doing it, and your ECU's 'swing' of active adjustment might be adequate, but if you do the reset, you will know for sure it is. 

The Active adjustment is only about 5%, where the total adjustment is about 15% change....but that is not accessible while riding, only during reset.

The stepper motor depends on information from the ECU to operate properly. 

If you don't do the reset, you will notice issues with hanging idle and flat throttle response, and even rich/lean condtions that can cause deceleration popping, and flame out.

 

Oh, and you have to check your chain tension, tire pressure, spoke tension, fuel level, oil levels, air filter, and bolt tightness before each ride too, right ?

Why is this any different ?

 

 

Ok, let me say that I have done the reset three times and the problem continues. If its so important make the reset every time that change the weather could you tell me why Beta dont show how to do It  in the book?

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It is very interesting in that, there IS no mention of the procedure, anywhere.  

I may have read where maybe Tim Plig had mentioned it to someone when they were having problems.  

Makes me wonder why Beta does not simply list the steps to do it on the owners manual. 

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Guys, here is a list of all the bike brands and models that need ECU resets when you change air density :

VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM

Here is the list of brands the explain this in their manuals:

VIRTUALLY NONE OF THEM

The manuals also don't tell you how to change a tube, how to shorten/lengthen a chain, how to set your forks for no binding, how to use the right kind of torque wrench, how to saftey wire on your grips, how to test the specific gravity of the coolant in your radiators, how to trace worn threads, how to install a time-sert thread replacer, how to set your sag and fork clamp height for neutral over/under steer, etc etc etc etc.

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3 hours ago, Rober Stark said:

Ok, let me say that I have done the reset three times and the problem continues. If its so important make the reset every time that change the weather could you tell me why Beta dont show how to do It  in the book?

If it doesn't work the first time, doing it more times won't help.

You probably have a failed/damaged stepper motor. I know I did. Beta replaced it for free through the dealer.

You MUST solve your air sealing problems or the problem will come back.

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12 hours ago, KRAYNIAL said:

If it doesn't work the first time, doing it more times won't help.

You probably have a failed/damaged stepper motor. I know I did. Beta replaced it for free through the dealer.

You MUST solve your air sealing problems or the problem will come back.

Do you know where It could be the Air sealing problem?

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There have been some airboxes where the area between the lip of the air filter and where it is supposed to seal against the airbox, has a non-flat surface and as a result, allows unfiltered air into the intake of the throttle body/carb-whatever one has.  

Check that interface on your machine as that could be the root of the problem.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S

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13 hours ago, KRAYNIAL said:

Guys, here is a list of all the bike brands and models that need ECU resets when you change air density :

VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM

Here is the list of brands the explain this in their manuals:

VIRTUALLY NONE OF THEM

The manuals also don't tell you how to change a tube, how to shorten/lengthen a chain, how to set your forks for no binding, how to use the right kind of torque wrench, how to saftey wire on your grips, how to test the specific gravity of the coolant in your radiators, how to trace worn threads, how to install a time-sert thread replacer, how to set your sag and fork clamp height for neutral over/under steer, etc etc etc etc.

Good point.  

There are motor vehicle transmission reset procedures(like for my motor vehicle)that are also unpublished-for some odd reason.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S

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