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Husquire

Can Dirt Bikes & ATV Co-Exist?

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I was recently approached by an ATV rep from their local club. We both have trails in the municipal forest and we were having a conversation about how me might be able to mutually benefit from each others riding clubs. Has anyone here had any successful working relationships with the ATV clubs in their area that has been a benefit to the dirt bike community? We have virtually identical needs in terms of riding, but obviously we reach an impasse what with us being able to ride double track (albeit not as fun as single track) and them not being able to ride our singles.  Anyone have ideas on how we can share resources to help out both clubs?

 

Things I had mentioned:

 

- If we rent heavy equipment and operators, give the ATV club a head up to do maintenance at same time to save on float and initial steup charges. 

- Communicate for prevention of sale of municipal land for developments. 

- Possibly having a ride day for both sports at the same time. Have a demo day for both in one location. 

 

Any other ideas that you guys have or if theres something you have done thats been successful let me know! RIght now we dont do alot with the ATV club, if anything, and it seems wasteful that two very similar sports dont overlap on efforts more often. 

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Dirt bikes and quads coexist just fine, on the showroom floor. I've seen what quads do to bike only trails and it's not pretty. Keep them separate and on there own trails. And yes I hate quads.

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I'd hope they could coexist. In less populated locales like Saskatchewan there are few ATV and trail riding clubs. Where one club finds trails, the other should be able to ride too. There's hardly any trails for quads and dirt bikes in South Saskatchewan save for the ditches in the countryside. Land here is too precious too leave unclaimed and soil here is too good to use for anything other than agriculture. 

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9 hours ago, HevyRotashunz said:

This is General Dirtbike Forum, why is there a kwad thread here? Maybe move it over to kwad land.

Because I am wanting the opinions of dirt bike riders about working with the quad community. 

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Husquire: You started a subject that compares sugar to vinegar! No way will quads ever be welcome on dirt bike trails! They can tear up trails to where there almost impassible plus add double trouble to the erosion factor. Give it up.

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Because of the effort it takes to ride 2 wheels over just sitting on a 4 wheeler, I think there develops a split in mentality between the average dirt biker and avg qwad rider.  At lest the ones I know.  I know many dirt bikes and almost none are a-holes. I know a handful of qwad riders and almost all are jerks.  I am talking no helmet, beer in one hand, radio blasting, wench on front, heading for a mud hole to try and see how deep they can wallow it out.

I ride two places where dirt bikes and qwads share, but cringe when I pull into the parking lot and see a bunch of qwad trailers and beer coolers sitting around.  I try to only ride where they are not.

Edited by wielywilly-g

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I hope they can co-exist as WI has so many more ATV trails than dirt bike trails or trails that allow both. About 10-15 years ago they started requiring ATVs to be registered and this has led to more public ATV trails throughout WI. Dirt bikes however are not allowed on most of these trails. But about 3 years ago they began to require dirt bikes to be registered if ridden on public land but so far only a couple trails have opened up for dirt bikes. I wrote(emailed) to the state inquiring about why DBs can't ride on all ATV trails. They wrote back and claimed not enough money had been made in the past 3 years to warrant more trails be opened up to DBs but they do expect more trails to open up over the next couple seasons. I did reply and state that if they opened up all ATV trails to DBs they would see a surge in DB registrations as there is little incentive to register right now if there are few to no trails to ride that are open to DBs. Never received a response on that one.

 

I do know that some of the ATV riders I speak too don't want trails to be opened to DBs because they don't like the single tire ruts made, mainly in turns. I usually tell those guys to remember they are riding off-road and if they want a perfectly groomed terrain go to one of the ATV tracks. Most don't like that comment and then go on to speak about how great they are at off-roading while simultaneously not wanting to deal with dirt bike tire ruts.

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Because I am wanting the opinions of dirt bike riders about working with the quad community. 
My opinion is that kwad "riders" cannot be trusted to do anything the right way. If they weren't the type to take shortcuts, they wouldn't need extra wheels. But ymmv, give it a try, see what happens.
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1 hour ago, Zinergy said:

I hope they can co-exist as WI has so many more ATV trails than dirt bike trails or trails that allow both. About 10-15 years ago they started requiring ATVs to be registered and this has led to more public ATV trails throughout WI. Dirt bikes however are not allowed on most of these trails. But about 3 years ago they began to require dirt bikes to be registered if ridden on public land but so far only a couple trails have opened up for dirt bikes. I wrote(emailed) to the state inquiring about why DBs can't ride on all ATV trails. They wrote back and claimed not enough money had been made in the past 3 years to warrant more trails be opened up to DBs but they do expect more trails to open up over the next couple seasons. I did reply and state that if they opened up all ATV trails to DBs they would see a surge in DB registrations as there is little incentive to register right now if there are few to no trails to ride that are open to DBs. Never received a response on that one.

 

I do know that some of the ATV riders I speak too don't want trails to be opened to DBs because they don't like the single tire ruts made, mainly in turns. I usually tell those guys to remember they are riding off-road and if they want a perfectly groomed terrain go to one of the ATV tracks. Most don't like that comment and then go on to speak about how great they are at off-roading while simultaneously not wanting to deal with dirt bike tire ruts.

Contact the AMA, possibly the BRC could help... If ANY public funds were used to build and maintain these trails, it's probably illegal to ban 2 wheels.

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8 minutes ago, RichBaker said:

Contact the AMA, possibly the BRC could help... If ANY public funds were used to build and maintain these trails, it's probably illegal to ban 2 wheels.

I'll take that into consideration as I have been considering my next course of action. Especially if I don't see or hear of any movement next season. I'm sure the states have some rules or laws the can cite as to why DBs are not allowed on ATV trails. I know it's not just WI that has laws like this in place... many trails around the US where ATVs can ride and DBs are banned.

I have also contacted the local cities around me trying to convince them to open land for riding. I have offered my services in helping develop trails, setting rules for safety etc and have even tried to play to their greedy money making ways saying you could charge a small fee for use. They're more interested in the next strip mall and where the newest Walmart will go.

I might just be on my own in SE WI. Seems the DBs around here are MX focused, not a lot of woods riding support. The groups and clubs in this part of the state are all about MX and tracks.

Edited by Zinergy

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1 hour ago, Zinergy said:

I'll take that into consideration as I have been considering my next course of action. Especially if I don't see or hear of any movement next season. I'm sure the states have some rules or laws the can cite as to why DBs are not allowed on ATV trails. I know it's not just WI that has laws like this in place... many trails around the US where ATVs can ride and DBs are banned.

I have also contacted the local cities around me trying to convince them to open land for riding. I have offered my services in helping develop trails, setting rules for safety etc and have even tried to play to their greedy money making ways saying you could charge a small fee for use. They're more interested in the next strip mall and where the newest Walmart will go.

I might just be on my own in SE WI. Seems the DBs around here are MX focused, not a lot of woods riding support. The groups and clubs in this part of the state are all about MX and tracks.

Contact Bryan Much from WOHMA - they are doing great things for dirt bikes in WI

http://www.wohma.com/

https://advrider.com/f/threads/wisconsin-ohm-ds-motorcyclists-trail-and-legislative-issues.423792/page-87

 

I have much more disdain for UTVs over ATVs though. God I hate those things. And everyone is buying them in Wisconsin. We can unite with ATVers against them!

 

 

Edited by dogeddie
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Contact Bryan Much from WOHMA - they are doing great things for dirt bikes in WI
http://www.wohma.com/
https://advrider.com/f/threads/wisconsin-ohm-ds-motorcyclists-trail-and-legislative-issues.423792/page-87
 
I have much more disdain for UTVs over ATVs though. God I hate those things. And everyone is buying them in Wisconsin. We can unite with ATVers against them!
 
 
Kwad guy aspires to be SxS guy.
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26 minutes ago, HevyRotashunz said:
1 hour ago, dogeddie said:
Contact Bryan Much from WOHMA - they are doing great things for dirt bikes in WI
http://www.wohma.com/
https://advrider.com/f/threads/wisconsin-ohm-ds-motorcyclists-trail-and-legislative-issues.423792/page-87
 
I have much more disdain for UTVs over ATVs though. God I hate those things. And everyone is buying them in Wisconsin. We can unite with ATVers against them!
 
 

Read more  

Kwad guy aspires to be SxS guy.

Probably, but I hate the UTV guys more. Once they make a trail that those guys can ride on, you might as well drive a Harley down it for all the challenge you'll get out of it.

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If Mountain Bike groups can get a long with Dirt Bike groups (like in the Tillamook forest of Oregon) then I'd like to think ATVers can get along with Dirt bikers, but you may need to talk real slow and bribe them with a lot of alcohol and maybe some type of shiny trinket. . . just think of them as dumb fish and you'll probably get along great!

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Do MTB guys get along with DB? Sometimes they're the of similar ilk... sure but most of the time they're hipsters who will shit talk anything with an internal combustion engine on it. And don't you dare ride on one of their trails with a 2 stroke.... they will immediately report you whether or not you're allowed to ride a smoker on that trail.

Edited by Zinergy

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Don't get me started on this subject.  The SxSs have destroyed many miles of single track in this area.  They are now whooped out 20 foot wide highways.  Quads and SxSs should not be allowed on public land.  (Don't start the slippery slope argument, I know that.)

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The target demographic of kwads is people that heave neither the physical or mental capacities to be out in the woods. G

 

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My main riding area is state owned land and most of the mapped trails are wide enough for quads, and they do ride those trails. The area also has some ST and they don't ride those.  The land management uses mini excavators for trail maintenance which is why the trails are wide enough for quads, they do exclude SxS. The ST trails are maintained by a local club. About 100,000acres of land and lots of vertical with several peaks about 2000 feet above the low lands.

The quad trails seem to suffer more traffic damage than the ST which I attribute to their locked rear axles that cause tire skidding on all turns. Dirt bike trail damage seems more related to inexperienced riders trenching soil in front of rocks and roots. Over the years high traffic areas have developed high berms on corners.

The positives of riding wide quad trails is you almost always have multiple choices of ideal lines and the options are always changing every few bike lengths, makes for good skill development.  The downside is quads tend to create two deep ruts on flat areas that fill with water during the wet seasons, compounded by the red clay soil that becomes very slippery when wet.

As with dirt bikes I've also observed a wide range of skill levels among quad riders.

Seldom do we encounter squids riding quads, don't know if it is the long mileage of the trails or their difficulty but my encounters have always been good.  IMO quads are very dangerous because they can roll over onto the rider while dirt bike riders usually fall away from the bike. I think quad riders avoid motorcycles because they are intimidated by the difficulty of learning to ride, not realizing the benefits of a dirt bike for off road riding.

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