Suspension for MX and Hare Scrambles

[Jace Perez]

Hey my new to me yz250 was previously sprung for a 190lbs rider and I am 140lbs so I have to get it resprung. I ride 60% mx and 40% messing around and trail riding and some hare scrambles here and then. What do you think I should do just go to stock valves with lighter springs and just use clickers and change sag for racing hare scrambles and going to the mx track?

[RawbW]

Get one fork leg setup for mx and one fork leg setup for harescrambles, that’s why there’s two legs so you can do both lol.

 

Talk it over with a suspension guru  and they’ll setup your suspension right. Won’t be cheap though, but it will be worth it.

[mlatour]

Depending on your motocross skill level, an off-road oriented setup would likely be too soft for MX.

 

Better to live with stiffer than ideal trail settings, decent faster paced woods / HS setup

than constantly bottoming out and risk injury on MX track type landings.

Edited December 7, 2018 by mlatour

[Jace Perez]

Depending on your motocross skill level, an off-road oriented setup would likely be too soft for MX.
 
Better to live with stiffer than ideal trail settings, decent high speed wood / HS setup
than constantly bottoming out and risk injury on MX track type landings.

Same thing I was thinking. I’m gonna get it set up for mx and when riding trails just soften up the clickers and maybe slow rebound in the rear and speed up rebound in the front to compensate for the multiple roots to keep the fork in the stroke

[texasthierry]

Rebound should be the same for MX or trails.

[Jace Perez]

Rebound should be the same for MX or trails.

Rebound all depends on the type of track. In super rocky trails you increase rebound speed so that the fork can be at the top part of the stroke for the next rock

[texasthierry]

12 hours ago, Jace Perez said:

Rebound all depends on the type of track. In super rocky trails you increase rebound speed so that the fork can be at the top part of the stroke for the next rock

And you don't need the same behavior in sand or groom track? The difference is you can ride to a certain level / speed with too much rebound damping in sand or groom track but you can't in rocky trail. I see a lot of bike at the track with too much rebound damping. They turn better but get busy on rough braking zone at the end of the day. To slow down the rebound and turn faster you can use the front brake and keep the forks moving in bumps. Rebound is linked to sprung/unsprung weight and spring rate, that doesn't change much from track to track (except if mud is involved).

[DEATH_INC.]

On 12/8/2018 at 12:18 AM, texasthierry said:

Rebound should be the same for MX or trails.

Agreed. As I see it, rebound is tied to spring rate etc. first, then speed, then terrain. Not all MX tracks are smooth, and a lot of 'em develop small chop, which has similar requirements to roots and rocks. Mud? Too busy trying to keep it pointed the right direction to worry about suspension

I do mostly MX, but do a couple of trail rides every year. I leave the suspension alone, a little bit of firmness on little stuff is better than being too light on those big surprises you get occasionally.

[Lone Danger]

Just buy a second set of forks and a shock off ebay for cheap. Have one valved for mx and the other for hare scramble. Just a couple bolts and you have a completely different bike.

Depending on how fast you are, I have had some success with having my suspension guy retain the mx bottoming resistance, that was stock on the bike, and then softening the initial valving. It is kind of like a endure-cross setup. Soaks up the rough stuff but I can still huck anything at the track that I did previously. Some of the fastest guys may complain that the suspension rides slightly further into the stroke and that whoops are more difficult. But I think most guys wont notice. May be cheaper than buying a second set of suspension as I mentioned previously.

[Jace Perez]

Just buy a second set of forks and a shock off ebay for cheap. Have one valved for mx and the other for hare scramble. Just a couple bolts and you have a completely different bike.
Depending on how fast you are, I have had some success with having my suspension guy retain the mx bottoming resistance, that was stock on the bike, and then softening the initial valving. It is kind of like a endure-cross setup. Soaks up the rough stuff but I can still huck anything at the track that I did previously. Some of the fastest guys may complain that the suspension rides slightly further into the stroke and that whoops are more difficult. But I think most guys wont notice. May be cheaper than buying a second set of suspension as I mentioned previously.

I can strip forks fairly easily I might have suspension guy just set up for enduro/ hare scramble races and have a .1 or.01 stiffer set of springs for when I want to ride mx. And the sss forks can go for a grand on the low end used without any valving in shim worm done to them for a set because they are one of the most desirable forks on the market

[Lone Danger]

15 hours ago, Jace Perez said:

I can strip forks fairly easily I might have suspension guy just set up for enduro/ hare scramble races and have a .1 or.01 stiffer set of springs for when I want to ride mx. And the sss forks can go for a grand on the low end used without any valving in shim worm done to them for a set because they are one of the most desirable forks on the market

That could work. I would run that buy your suspension guy and get his opinion as well.

Or you could get an older set of something else besides sss for cheap? I know lots of guys do it. Good luck

[Lone Danger]

I have the pre-sss forks and you would be surprised at how little difference there is, especially if you are only riding single track some of the time. cheers

[JohnnyB24]

I can strip forks fairly easily I might have suspension guy just set up for enduro/ hare scramble races and have a .1 or.01 stiffer set of springs for when I want to ride mx. And the sss forks can go for a grand on the low end used without any valving in shim worm done to them for a set because they are one of the most desirable forks on the market

Last season I set up my YZ250 suspension for sprint enduros which are a good mix of riding disciplines and you still have to jump stuff. I found that I liked using the MX spring rate and softer compression valving on the forks. The shock I actually went to a stiffer spring and revalve. Also softer on base comp but I stiffened up high speed rebound a lot which took away the tendency to kick over logs or when blitzing over a dip or g-out. From my lessons learned, the spring rate you should go more off of body weight and ability. If you go to softer springs you’ll have a mush bucket that will be harsh when you ride fast. The bike will settle lower in the stroke so you would need stiffer valving to keep it from blowing through wen you hit larger obstacles. If the springs are already good for your weight and you have the right sag just alter the shim stack to be more compliant for the occasional hare scramble.
If you were doing hard enduro technical stuff it might be a different story.

[Creeature]

I'm pretty happy with desert settings for the track and trail fwiw.

can someone describe the feeling of too little rebound damping? Too much will calm the front but will be hard to keep traction? 

[Officer Mike]

8 hours ago, The Creature said:

I'm pretty happy with desert settings for the track and trail fwiw.

can someone describe the feeling of too little rebound damping? Too much will calm the front but will be hard to keep traction? 

Too little and the fork will rebound/extend quickly. Too much and the opposite. You want the fork to extend as fast as possible, staying in contact with the ground/bumps yet WITH OUT pushing you/ the bike up ( think pogo stick). Conversely, if the fork rebound dampening is too much, the fork is therefore extending too slowly, the fork will then not be ready for the next or successive bumps. You will then be already passed the beginning of the stroke, Bc you never extended back to it before the next bump, and you will be using the mid stroke to try and handle little bumps. This is called packing and it sucks. People then hate on their fork Bc it’s harsh, yet it’s harsh Bc you’re trying to soak up little bumps with the heavier resistance of the mid stroke rather the plusher beginning of the stroke. In this case speeding up the rebound would allow the fork to be back (reset) to the beginning of the stroke before the next hit resulting in a plusher feeling in the hands with out ever touching a compression clicker. Most people play w compression and forget rebound. Note that as you become a faster rider, you will prob need to speed up the rebound/ lessen rebound dampening so the fork can keep up with you 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Officer Mike

[DEATH_INC.]

21 hours ago, The Creature said:

I'm pretty happy with desert settings for the track and trail fwiw.

can someone describe the feeling of too little rebound damping? Too much will calm the front but will be hard to keep traction? 

Officer mike pretty much covered it, but simply, to little will feel bouncy, like the front wants to jump up and smack you in the face all the time. It should feel controlled, not too loose if you will.

Too much will definitely hurt traction, it won't allow the wheel to follow the downside of bumps, a tire in the air has no grip.

[Creeature]

So a lot of the fast guys are running it really loose and using front brake to control the busy feel in slower sections? I was getting head shake and had possibly confused packing with resonance so I kept trying slowing rebound but think I should have went the other way. 

It feels better with faster rebound but harder to keep in ruts and stay settled in slower sections.. Thanks

[Officer Mike]

1 hour ago, The Creature said:

So a lot of the fast guys are running it really loose and using front brake to control the busy feel in slower sections? I was getting head shake and had possibly confused packing with resonance so I kept trying slowing rebound but think I should have went the other way. 

It feels better with faster rebound but harder to keep in ruts and stay settled in slower sections.. Thanks

How many millimeters are your forks sticking out of the top clamp 

[Creeature]

37 minutes ago, Officer Mike said:

How many millimeters are your forks sticking out of the top clamp 

1mm, static and race sag perfect 35/107 

[Officer Mike]

5 hours ago, The Creature said:

1mm, static and race sag perfect 35/107 

There should be lines etched in to the outer fork tube at the top of the fork. Set the forks so that the second line is barely visible sticking out of top clamp. See if it will hold the rut better. That said, the bike isn’t going to hold any line if your body position is wrong. 

 

What machine are we talking about here? Start with the above setting and then we can look at sag