Think I Fried my wiring harness. How bad is it?

[onelove02]

Hey ya'll I'm new to the forum and to my 400e, just picked up my first one last month!

Been in the process of fixing and cleaning it up, doing all the necessary repairs and extra details before I really start riding it.

Need some help now though!  Big problem I think I managed to fry my wiring harness(es)!

Details on the bike is its an '01 E model converted to street legal with an aftermarket light kit (that I don't know what brand it is)

... I'm not the greatest when it comes to wiring, and I recently swapped out the white headlight on it with a new identical Acerbis black vision unit.  I matched and connected all identical wires from the old headlamp to the new unit and it seemed to work like a charm. 

For the week after I started experiencing battery and starting trouble with the bike, dying on me a few times here and there. I thought I'd charge the battery overnight and that seemed to fix the problem instantly. 

Then... a few days ago I was running some voltage/continuity checks on the aftermarket lighting kit's main unit with my digital meter, while I had the ignition on.  Within a minute or 2 I started to see smoke coming from the headlight wire area and it smelled of melting rubber so I immediately turned the ignition off! Did not know to have it off when running continuity checks. I was basically looking for wires to run blinkers in the front and to check the rear brake pressure switch. Also wondering if maybe there was a short caused due to the new headlight possibly drawing more power than the old aftermarket light.

I ended up taking the tank seat and plastics off and it looks like not only the main harness, but the aftermarket harness also, both have multiple separate spots of melted and maybe fused wires! I'm worried and pretty sure its bad. I'm hoping I can just replace both harnesses, and of course find the short or root of the problem.

Any help would be so greatly appreciated!  

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by onelove02

[Atolduso]

Definitely going to have the pull off all that sheathing to make sure you don't have shorts between wires or you'll have issues again, burning things out. 

I am parting out a E model right now I took some parts from, have a cheap wiring harness I'd ship you. Just to give you options.

Good luck. 

[onelove02]

4 hours ago, Atolduso said:

Definitely going to have the pull off all that sheathing to make sure you don't have shorts between wires or you'll have issues again, burning things out. 

I am parting out a E model right now I took some parts from, have a cheap wiring harness I'd ship you. Just to give you options.

Good luck. 

Thanks, I'll PM you on the harness.

My question is does anyone recognize what company may have made the aftermarket light kit on my bike? ...I'm hoping to just find a replacement harness from the same manufacturer it they're still around

Edited December 20, 2018 by onelove02

[Noble]

 What fuse if any was in the melted fuse holder?  Is there just the 1 main fuse?. Does the "kit" harness have a separate fuse?  You should think about replacing all the wiring.  You could start with an E harness or S harness.  Either one will need some adapting.

[Erik Marquez]

9 hours ago, Noble said:

 What fuse if any was in the melted fuse holder?  Is there just the 1 main fuse?. Does the "kit" harness have a separate fuse?  You should think about replacing all the wiring.  You could start with an E harness or S harness.  Either one will need some adapting.

That ^
Based on your own admission your not great with wiring (please don't use those residential wire nuts like in your pictures) starting with a good used harness is your best bet. Leave the OEM harness unmolested other then pulling signal power for a relay.
Get the tools to make a proper soldered joint and protect it with heat shrink tube. 
The OEM harness headlight circuit is only designed for 35 watts continuous and 55 watts intermittent use... If your replacement headlight uses more it needs to be powered by a separate stand alone circuit.
 

[CaptCapsize]

I had a DZ400E 2006 model I completely replaced the harness with a Tusk brand from RockyMountainATV/MC .   I think it was about  was about $100 for everything including lights.  The harness alone is only about $30.  For that price I would just replace the whole harness.  It would probably be easier.  Also I used a 55 watt headlight.   The fuse is supposed to protect the wiring. 

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1156/25860/Tusk-Enduro-Lighting-Kit-Replacement-Wire-Harness

You should also check you stator and regulator. 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by CaptCapsize

[DrzDick]

8 hours ago, Erik Marquez said:

The OEM harness headlight circuit is only designed for 35 watts continuous and 55 watts intermittent use... If your replacement headlight uses more it needs to be powered by a separate stand alone circuit.

Small correction here.

Although I agree there are benefits to having the headlight fed from a separate relay, and it's just good practise to do so when adding aftermarket kit, the OEM headlight harness is rated to at least 55 watts continuous.

The S/SM's OEM fitment is a dual filament bulb (60/55W) and the E's have a single filament 55 Watt, I suspect the same cable is used on bikes both looms.

Edited December 20, 2018 by DrzDick

[Erik Marquez]

Small correction here.

Although I agree there are benefits to having the headlight fed from a separate relay, and it's just good practise to do so when adding aftermarket kit, the OEM headlight harness is rated to at least 55 watts continuous.

The S/SM's OEM fitment is a dual filament bulb (60/55W) and the E's have a single filament 55 Watt, I suspect the same cable is used on bikes both looms.

I was thinking it was at 35 / 55 not a standard 55 / 60 great catch thanks.

 

So correct the math to 60 Watts available through the OEM harness max

 

 

[DrzDick]

23 hours ago, onelove02 said:

Then... a few days ago I was running some voltage/continuity checks on the aftermarket lighting kit's main unit with my digital meter, while I had the ignition on.  Within a minute or 2 I started to see smoke coming from the headlight wire area and it smelled of melting rubber so I immediately turned the ignition off! Did not know to have it off when running continuity checks. I was basically looking for wires to run blinkers in the front and to check the rear brake pressure switch. Also wondering if maybe there was a short caused due to the new headlight possibly drawing more power than the old aftermarket light.

I can't even imagine what you have done with a test meter to have caused that, just maybe if you were running a current measurement and had the meter in the 10A mode... but even then it would likely just have fused or destroyed the meter instead... ask me how I know.... ?

That aftermarket lighting kit looks overkill to be honest. Might just be easier (and way better looking) to get hold the S/SM switchgear and merge that into your existing/new loom. 

 

[Noble]

Yea, it was not the testing that destroyed the harness.  Over current/short and apparent lack of a correct fuse

[Atolduso]

Check your PM's OP. I sent pictures of the harness you requested. Came off a running 02 E. 

https://imgur.com/a/gUzMtdF

[siscoken]

I have done a few harnesses in this condition....buy a complete harness...you have one wire that has melted the insulation and over the length of the of the harness has come in contact with all other wires melting those wire insulation.

Motorcycle harnesses are very simple and connections and wires are installed to support only accessories from the factory. ..if you are going to add accessories. ....add supporting wiring and protection...if you are going to add high current accessories add fused positive and negative wires to the battery and depending,  controlled by a relay (useing low current factory circuit to control higher current accessory circuit). 

Good luck with your repairs 

[onelove02]

23 hours ago, Noble said:

 What fuse if any was in the melted fuse holder?  Is there just the 1 main fuse?. Does the "kit" harness have a separate fuse?  You should think about replacing all the wiring.  You could start with an E harness or S harness.  Either one will need some adapting.

The fuse was a 20 amp yellow. It looks red in the pic because there was a spare 10 amp sitting in there as well.  The aftermarket harness does have a fuse at the battery but that one is fine.  Now I'm leaning towards the S harness swap with factory switches.  I've read a fair amount on what it takes to do, and I think it will be the cheaper easier and best route in the end.  

14 hours ago, Erik Marquez said:

That ^
Based on your own admission your not great with wiring (please don't use those residential wire nuts like in your pictures) starting with a good used harness is your best bet. Leave the OEM harness unmolested other then pulling signal power for a relay.
Get the tools to make a proper soldered joint and protect it with heat shrink tube. 
The OEM harness headlight circuit is only designed for 35 watts continuous and 55 watts intermittent use... If your replacement headlight uses more it needs to be powered by a separate stand alone circuit.
 

Thanks for the advice Erik, I definitely want to do the job right.  The new headlight I put on there says the main bulb is 35w, and the complete headlight runs at 50w.  I'm pretty sure the original aftermarket headlight on there was the same.  Everything seemed to be working fine for a week, until I had the ignition + headlight on for maybe 5 minutes with the engine off... that's when I saw smoke and melting wires

5 hours ago, DrzDick said:

I can't even imagine what you have done with a test meter to have caused that, just maybe if you were running a current measurement and had the meter in the 10A mode... but even then it would likely just have fused or destroyed the meter instead... ask me how I know.... ?

That aftermarket lighting kit looks overkill to be honest. Might just be easier (and way better looking) to get hold the S/SM switchgear and merge that into your existing/new loom. 

 

Ya I still don't know what caused the short.   I think the S harness/switches will be my best bet.  Is it ready for a hydraulic brake switch to be wired in?

[DrzDick]

When you had the ignition on, and was running test tests, did you have the steering on a hard lock?

If so it's possible that a wire was chaffed and only contacts the frame when the loom is pulled tight. It would have been fine whilst riding as the steering is mostly straight and the loom isn't stressed. It is also possible that wires can slip down from the headlight and get between the bottom yoke and the steering limit tabs. I have crushed a headlight wire that way before.

[Erik Marquez]

7 hours ago, DrzDick said:

When you had the ignition on, and was running test tests, did you have the steering on a hard lock?

If so it's possible that a wire was chaffed and only contacts the frame when the loom is pulled tight. It would have been fine whilst riding as the steering is mostly straight and the loom isn't stressed. It is also possible that wires can slip down from the headlight and get between the bottom yoke and the steering limit tabs. I have crushed a headlight wire that way before.

The problem with that is.... the main fuse still should have popped long before the OEM harness wire drew enough amps to overheat like seen in the pics.

 

The entire harness from just mm away from the battery is protected by the main fuse. 
Unless the fuse failed to pop as designed ...be it wrong sized fuse, dead short across or the like.
So either something went very wring with the OEM fused main circuit fuse or an add on circuit (wire) overheated and caused the collateral damage. 

[DrzDick]

Dunno, could have been just bad luck in that the short wasn't a good one, if it was caused by a short to chassis ground.

A 20 amp fuse will sit at 20 amps for a short while before blowing (depending on design). The short could have only been taking 15 amps, which would be enough to heat the wiring and melt the insulation after 5 minutes, but not take out the fuse, although it obviously did get close as the fuse also got hot & melted the holder. I guess it was sat at or close to 20 amps for that time.

Once you get into the higher rated fuses it can need a pretty good short connection to actually get a high enough current to take out the fuse, especially on a 12V system. That's why it's important to make sure the fuse is rated to less than the full cable/wire run is, because if not the cable becomes the fuse. 

[Erik Marquez]

39 minutes ago, DrzDick said:

Dunno, could have been just bad luck in that the short wasn't a good one, if it was caused by a short to chassis ground.

A 20 amp fuse will sit at 20 amps for a short while before blowing (depending on design). The short could have only been taking 15 amps, which would be enough to heat the wiring and melt the insulation after 5 minutes, but not take out the fuse, although it obviously did get close as the fuse also got hot & melted the holder. I guess it was sat at or close to 20 amps for that time.

Once you get into the higher rated fuses it can need a pretty good short connection to actually get a high enough current to take out the fuse, especially on a 12V system. That's why it's important to make sure the fuse is rated to less than the full cable/wire run is, because if not the cable becomes the fuse. 

A standard 20 amp automotive ATO fuse will fail at 30 amps in about 1 sec.
The problem with that and the DRZ wiring design as a whole, is the 20 amp fuse is protecting the entire power draw other than starter...

For ease in math, lets say there are 10 circuits in total, as long as all 10 combined do not draw more than 20 amps, the one main fuse will not blow. 

The problem is, if any of the circuits (wires) say a .33 mm2 gauge ( roughly 22ga, and a commonly used wire size in motorcycles), designed to only handle 1 amp wire is altered with added amp draw....to power say a pair Aux lights drawing 15 amps. With the bike off but rider "testing" new lights ..the 20 amp main fuse will not blow as only 15 amps are being drawn though that 20 amp fuse.... but that one wire designed for only 1 amp is now carrying 15 amps ..it overheats, which adds more resistance, so it overheats more....and you get what we see in this pictures above

 

[DrzDick]

Yes, agreed. I'm just trying to work out what the failure mode was, overload due to modification or overload due to fault condition.

What makes me think it is the latter is that the head light was installed and run for a week with no melting wires or smoke. The new head light is rated at 55W total, as was the original so there should be no overload if installed correctly. It likely induced a parasitic drain though as something was discharging the battery when parked. This could have been something to do with the LED side lights, who knows...

So the new light operated correctly when installed and worked ok for a week, so what could have caused it to suddenly fail within 2 minutes whilst doing tests on it??

The most likely thing in this instance (I think) is a short to chassis or a short between a  switched live & a neg wire that might have suffered crush damage (or abrasion). If it is this then it might have needed the loom to be in a certain position to make the short, hence my suspicion that that it only happened when the steering was at full lock. That would also explain why it didn't happen whilst being ridden.

Also lets not forget that the main fuse should have been 10 amps.

Another thing I find strange about the DRZ wiring is that the whole electrical system is pretty much unprotected when the engine is running. This is something that the Free Power Mod deals with but as standard the output from the R/R is straight into the loom unfused.

[Erik Marquez]

6 hours ago, DrzDick said:

Also lets not forget that the main fuse should have been 10 amp

The  OEM fuse is 20 amps, 

FUSE (20A)
09481-20101

6 hours ago, DrzDick said:

Another thing I find strange about the DRZ wiring is that the whole electrical system is pretty much unprotected when the engine is running. 

It is protected just as is the entire harness is... If the RR shorts to ground it should pop the main 20 amp fuse just as if the wire going to the headlight chafes  and shorts to ground. 
Anywhere along the harness, if a energized 12vdc wire shorts to ground the fuse should blow....does not matter if its 10mm from the fuse, or the headlight wire, or orange key on power wire, or other connected branch circuit that leads back to the battery though the main fuse. 

 

[onelove02]

15 hours ago, DrzDick said:

When you had the ignition on, and was running test tests, did you have the steering on a hard lock?

If so it's possible that a wire was chaffed and only contacts the frame when the loom is pulled tight. It would have been fine whilst riding as the steering is mostly straight and the loom isn't stressed. It is also possible that wires can slip down from the headlight and get between the bottom yoke and the steering limit tabs. I have crushed a headlight wire that way before.

The steering was straight at the time. I didn't notice any melted rubber or chaffed wires before it happened.

One thing I might add is that when I was checking lights and wires with the ignition on, the main headlight bulb was not on. I had pressed the hi/low beam button to turn off the main h4 bulb and the led's, so only the mini running light bulb was on for the duration of the 5 or so minutes before the overheating happened. It's been making me wonder if that had something to do with it. 

I also never touched the main harness when swapping the headlight. Only pulled off the 2 main connectors to the aftermarket metal box lighting unit. Sat down with the old and new light assemblies and transferred the metal box unit with what looked to be the same exact wire connections necessary.  Plugged it back in and it seemed to work perfect for a week. 

Then one evening on my way to work it stalled out on me, and it took me a few minutes to get it started. I thought I saw a little smoke coming from the front for the first time but figured it might've just been the cold air and the engine warming up. Almost makes me think something wasn't right already.

I chalked it off to the battery being drained from the headlight install and not riding it much, so I charged it overnight and thought that was the end of my problems.