Another red italian dirtbike ???

[66chad]

It’s still a 5 speed

[lom]

How about a SWM?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/dirtbikemagazine.com/friday-wrap-up-2018-models-from-italy/
 

The price is right but not interested in a 4st. Supposedly may have 2st's next year. Interesting concept though, chinese owned company manufacturing elsewhere.
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2014/12/01/swm-motorcycle-resurrection-shineray-qa/

[ged93]

Wow derailed again , let me clarify somethings anyway : 

1) Torrot is a company which manufactures electric bikes , and they are full of money , so they needed to find a way to spend some in order to don't pay too much taxes , a GG were the solution , so they bought them and also received extra money from spanish governement .

2) It's clear that Torrot is not interested to make GG grow up : no 2s efi AT ALL , no 4 strokes , old concept bikes ( look at Sherco , they are a small company but they are growing fast with great riders like Young and Roman ) .Consider that KTM was interested to buy GG but only for trials bike .

3) Swm is another company which is growing , with chinese money , but they already have MX 2s prototypes ready and showed at eicma last year . They sold 3000 bikes in 2017 if I remember right and still growing - TM is on market since 80-90's and they sell only 1500 bikes per year .

4) TM has made an ALL IN with the new 2s efi with es , ev , counter balance and so on , but they should have made this step 4-5 years ago to make a big change , this year Beta and Sherco are going with efi so , why choose a TM when you can buy Beta , Ktm , Husqy , Sherco which are clearly superior bikes ? Again TM looks beautiful from outside , but when you look in detail ... ( for example : look at their new ev mechanism for 250-300 2s 2019 , probably the engineer who designed that solution was drunked for sure ) .

5) Maybe ktm should make a come back with Husaberg , just to shake the market with something new .

[Cullins]

2 hours ago, ged93 said:

Wow derailed again , let me clarify somethings anyway : 

1) Torrot is a company which manufactures electric bikes , and they are full of money , so they needed to find a way to spend some in order to don't pay too much taxes , a GG were the solution , so they bought them and also received extra money from spanish governement .

2) It's clear that Torrot is not interested to make GG grow up : no 2s efi AT ALL , no 4 strokes , old concept bikes ( look at Sherco , they are a small company but they are growing fast with great riders like Young and Roman ) .Consider that KTM was interested to buy GG but only for trials bike .

3) Swm is another company which is growing , with chinese money , but they already have MX 2s prototypes ready and showed at eicma last year . They sold 3000 bikes in 2017 if I remember right and still growing - TM is on market since 80-90's and they sell only 1500 bikes per year .

4) TM has made an ALL IN with the new 2s efi with es , ev , counter balance and so on , but they should have made this step 4-5 years ago to make a big change , this year Beta and Sherco are going with efi so , why choose a TM when you can buy Beta , Ktm , Husqy , Sherco which are clearly superior bikes ? Again TM looks beautiful from outside , but when you look in detail ... ( for example : look at their new ev mechanism for 250-300 2s 2019 , probably the engineer who designed that solution was drunked for sure ) .

5) Maybe ktm should make a come back with Husaberg , just to shake the market with something new .

Didn’t want to get into this on the Beta side, but I guess I will. Your assumption that Beta and the others are a better bike than TM is false. I don’t usually make statements like this, however the new 2019 TM 300EN is simply the best two stroke motor I have ever ridden! That includes a pretty tuned up Beta 300 race bike we have which runs stronger than any stock KTM.  

The TM motor is fast, very linear and easy to ride. Starter works as well as Beta which IMO is the gold standard for 2t starters. Never thought I wanted a counter balancer, but while riding the bike I was thinking “this bike feels really tight” then I remembered it had one and that must be why.  Ty rode a 2016 TM 300EN and found it to be all hard hitting mid range. Fast, but hard to ride. He didn’t like it at all. The 2019 is nothing like that!

Build quality/hardware, less weight, comes with 3 gallon tank, KYB forks, etc. plus to my surprise there is nothing odd or quirky about the bike. They are now very main stream in the way they ride. 

Now the others have jacked their prices up so much that TM’s cost about the same. 

I’m not sure what happened to the 6-speed with the new motor.  I can confirm it’s a 5. Ty has mentioned the gap from 3 to 4th is a little bigger than he would like. That’s been his only complaint. 

From what I have heard the EFI bike should make it to the states later this year. Ty will probably test one, but as good as the carb bike is I don’t expect him to be racing an EFI bike when EX starts in July. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Cullins

[djl2014]

Hey Cullins, where’s the US distributor for TM located? Just curious how easy/hard it is to get parts.

[Cullins]

Banning CA., which is Southern California. About a half hour drive for us. 

Ive seen their parts supply, parts aren’t an issue. Plus is there ever is an issue they are the type to take it off a new bike to get you up and running.

Not actually sure if they sell parts directly to customers or if it goes through dealers only.  Just like Beta and others, that’s always the hard part. Can’t build a dealer network if your selling direct to the customer. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

5 hours ago, ged93 said:

Wow derailed again , let me clarify somethings anyway : 

1) Torrot is a company which manufactures electric bikes , and they are full of money , so they needed to find a way to spend some in order to don't pay too much taxes , a GG were the solution , so they bought them and also received extra money from spanish governement .

2) It's clear that Torrot is not interested to make GG grow up : no 2s efi AT ALL , no 4 strokes , old concept bikes ( look at Sherco , they are a small company but they are growing fast with great riders like Young and Roman ) .Consider that KTM was interested to buy GG but only for trials bike .

3) Swm is another company which is growing , with chinese money , but they already have MX 2s prototypes ready and showed at eicma last year . They sold 3000 bikes in 2017 if I remember right and still growing - TM is on market since 80-90's and they sell only 1500 bikes per year .

4) TM has made an ALL IN with the new 2s efi with es , ev , counter balance and so on , but they should have made this step 4-5 years ago to make a big change , this year Beta and Sherco are going with efi so , why choose a TM when you can buy Beta , Ktm , Husqy , Sherco which are clearly superior bikes ? Again TM looks beautiful from outside , but when you look in detail ... ( for example : look at their new ev mechanism for 250-300 2s 2019 , probably the engineer who designed that solution was drunked for sure ) .

5) Maybe ktm should make a come back with Husaberg , just to shake the market with something new .

They are full of money selling electric bikes?

hmm. I don’t know. Actually I think anyone else doesn’t “know “. We are just linking to online conversations.  I mean we just started with a conversation about Ducati dirt bike. The rest is just gravy poured all over the top. 

[ged93]

4 hours ago, Cullins said:

Your assumption that Beta and the others are a better bike than TM is false

Your opinion oviusly , I can tell that your assumption than TM is better is false , we can stay here all night and day ... if you like it , good for you ! Just see at numbers once again :

Beta : 20 000 bikes sold

TM : 1500 bikes sold

Sherco : anybody knows ?

HDR , I know that sounds strange , but this is what has happened , same with Fiat and Chrysler , or BMW and Rolls Royce 

[Cullins]

Well my opinion is based on us having over 8 Beta two strokes since they where introduced in 2013 and had planned on happily racing them this year up until about November last year. Then having the TM for almost a month. 

Sales volume doesn’t mean how good a bike is. Especially in TM’s case. The factory is happy with the size they are and  producing their small volume of hand made bikes. 

[lom]

Well my opinion is based on us having over 8 Beta two strokes since they where introduced in 2013 and had planned on happily racing them this year up until about November last year. Then having the TM for almost a month. 
Sales volume doesn’t mean how good a bike is. Especially in TM’s case. The factory is happy with the size they are and  producing their small volume of hand made bikes. 

Not to mention karting is a huge deal to them too

[hawaiidirtrider]

1 hour ago, ged93 said:

Your opinion oviusly , I can tell that your assumption than TM is better is false , we can stay here all night and day ... if you like it , good for you ! Just see at numbers once again :

Beta : 20 000 bikes sold

TM : 1500 bikes sold

Sherco : anybody knows ?

HDR , I know that sounds strange , but this is what has happened , same with Fiat and Chrysler , or BMW and Rolls Royce 

Yea this thread is just entertainment. So we’ll find out more info later. As far as TM? Hey it’s about time TM showed up with something better than. 5 speed kick only 300. I’ll wait a couple years and watch like I have with Beta and ktm and Sherco husky gasgas and all the others. When TM shows up here with an estart 300 6 speed I’ll get to see the bike.. and if anyone buys one then I’ll get the lowdown on how they work. If Im lucky I’ll get to ride one. Still overall as a brand besides the bike Beta is the best in my opinion.  I appreciate exotics but such a tiny amount of hand made dirt bikes is more of a turn off than a turn on. Beta still is sort of an exotic but the numbers being much more is great to me. It’s not a ktm or husky or yammie but I get everything fast and easy.

Edited January 12, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[dirtbird]

Not to continue on which bike rides best but I trust Chris opinion on the TM . Even his description on the 2016 is very close to mine for the 2014 I have rode. 

 

However one problem with TM is parts prices. They are considerably higher than Beta (even higher than KTM) and there are no after market options. 

Think plastics three times more expensive than Beta (or close to two more than ktm)..... 

And since I am close to my local importer, this is the factory pricing not the importer's policy. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by dirtbird

[Balkan boy]

27 minutes ago, dirtbird said:

Not to continue on which bike rides best but I trust Chris opinion on the TM . Even his description on the 2016 is very close to mine for the 2014 I have rode. 

 

However one problem with TM is parts prices. They are considerably higher than Beta (even higher than KTM) and there are no after market options. 

Think plastics three times more expensive than Beta (or close to two more than ktm)..... 

And since I am close to my local importer, this is the factory pricing not the importer's policy. 

Are the prices (for bikes) similar to Beta in Greece?
I only found some prices in Italy, and it seems it's the same or little bit more than Beta.

I would like if someone close to me had a TM to swap bike on rides, but I'm keeping the Beta for a few more years at least. 

[dirtbird]

They are slightly more expensive but parts pricing is another story. 

And also are very slow on getting homologation approval.

This might be of no importance for US customers, but In Europe you just can't sell an enduro bike without being able to plate it. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by dirtbird

[TiagoCar12]

The truth is that TM is the only brand untill now to joint KTM in the 2 Stroke future.

Meaning counter balancer and FI.

And more, top notch forks shock, handmade parts and they are really a work of art.

Gearbox is a choice, some like it some don't.

There isn't a rule for gearbox gearing.

[hawaiidirtrider]

9 hours ago, Car12 said:

The truth is that TM is the only brand untill now to joint KTM in the 2 Stroke future.

Meaning counter balancer and FI.

And more, top notch forks shock, handmade parts and they are really a work of art.

Gearbox is a choice, some like it some don't.

There isn't a rule for gearbox gearing.

I can see a counterbalancer . That seems like a good mod. TPI is a government forced law laid on manufacturers. I don’t want it. Even since it’s forced on us I’m sticking to a carb. Suspension is good but not any better as with every bike I own it’s just to set up for me and it’s all good. A 5 speed is straight shitty compared to a 6 speed. I’ll never buy a 5 speed dirt bike again. There’s no need. I had one and hated it. TM is a beautiful bike but there will have to be the bike showing more to prove how good it is. So far they have shown its taken many years to catch up to other brands. As far as having so few bikes made a year as TM makes ? That’s not encouraging to me. It was passing when I first bought Beta because it had a very popular rfs ktm motor in Beta the first time I bought and even then Beta had large production numbers compared to TM. It’s way larger now and Beta has proven great service in the 10 years I’m riding them. There are good and bad to exotics. Beta is popular enough now and has alot more bikes made and parts have always been good to get. To me everyone else can buy a TM or a Sherco for that matter.....no likee no kicker...

[Piney Woods]

What was this thread about?

[Cullins]

1 hour ago, Piney Woods said:

What was this thread about?

Coulda just been named “Other Italian Dirt Bikes” ?

[hawaiidirtrider]

Swm still considered italian???

[lom]

In all fairness it was Ducati stuff started in the beta forum. Any bikes are fair game at this point lol.