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replica660

430 RR 2016 Missfire / TPS

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Hi , refurbishing my friends BETA 430 RR '16 which causes him issues with Blowing 10A Fuses for the Starter AND the Light circuit! The bike also has continouse missfiring issues.

Issue is that I can't run the bike now ( Snow under in Germany right now & not allowed to go o nthe road here :(

To get it ready for testing I did following so far:

1) Checked all connectors in wiring ... were very bad and corroded ( .. Horn connector also was loosly hanfg on the connector )

2) Measured Rectifier Unit ... all OK as it looks from my meter

3) Checked the Valves - all are in specs

4) Checked and replaced the sparkplug - was out of spec & pretty old - replaced now!

Questions:

a) Wanted to check the TPS setting but can't find Voltage references here in the Forum so far

b) Also can't find a wiring diagram which will also show the Petrol Pump wire lines & Fuses .. .anyone can provide?

c) Anone has already solved such issues on his 430 RR ? 

Txs, rgds  Klaus

 

Edited by replica660
Enter pressed on error !

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Leave the TPS alone

Leave the idle alone

Leave the mapping alone

Replace the fuel pump filter

Clean the motor side of the TB, and the sensors. Pressure clean the injector using solvent and an air compressor and a rubber hose. Cycle the injector with a 9v battery.

Clean the stepper motor bypass passage, and inspect for dirt/debris

Clean ALL OF HARNESS CONNECTIONS especially the ECU and relay connections, as they will arc when corroded.

Make sure the battery is 12.8+ volts after shutting off motor.  Can't go below 12v or it will run funny.

Put in a NEW sprark plug. Water acumlates around the plug, causing it to corrode.....and they just wear out.

You have a short circuit, most likely in the harness, from rubbing against the frame, or corrosion. 

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Txs KRAYNIAL, will try to work down the list you provided asap and report.

As mentioned I already had finished the Connectors including ECU & Relay connectors, Sparkplug, Sensor connectors, Cables & a few more.

Fuses haven't blown ever since , even with only 7.5A installed instead of 10A ... to make the issue faster visible for testing.

Three questions :

1) What do you mean with "TB" &  " stepper motor bypass passage" ? ... can you elaborate?

2) Battery Voltage is perfect BUT not rising higher than 13.2V when bike is running - should't I expect some 14V or even higher?

3) Also checked the TPS setup ( ... know it's idle dependent but wanted to see a basic voltage which is 4.53 V. Confuses me compairing measurements with KTM & other bikes ranging somer 0.5xxx/0.6xxx Volt ).

... is there such a big difference from one to the other brand ? .. Beta even has some KTM roots ??

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10 hours ago, replica660 said:

Txs KRAYNIAL, will try to work down the list you provided asap and report.

As mentioned I already had finished the Connectors including ECU & Relay connectors, Sparkplug, Sensor connectors, Cables & a few more.

Fuses haven't blown ever since , even with only 7.5A installed instead of 10A ... to make the issue faster visible for testing.

Three questions :

1) What do you mean with "TB" &  " stepper motor bypass passage" ? ... can you elaborate?

2) Battery Voltage is perfect BUT not rising higher than 13.2V when bike is running - should't I expect some 14V or even higher?

3) Also checked the TPS setup ( ... know it's idle dependent but wanted to see a basic voltage which is 4.53 V. Confuses me compairing measurements with KTM & other bikes ranging somer 0.5xxx/0.6xxx Volt ).

... is there such a big difference from one to the other brand ? .. Beta even has some KTM roots ??

 1}On the TB you will see the stepper motor take it off and make sure its clean and the passage it controls is clean.  if it still has its sticker in the body of the stepper motor it will say continental hope this helps you find it. 

2} 13.2 is fine

3} Not checked mine however I'd say 4.53 is the reference voltage not the signal. I'd have thought it would be 5v but as I said have never checked it. 

 

There is a trap on these bikes the main relay is hidden away the behind the airbox over  below the ECU main conector make sure you have checked this you must cut the cable tie (zip tie) to get access. Have you done this ? It caught me out a bit.... 

MM 

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So, some more points checked !

a) Injectior cleaned & checked ==> 2 seperate clean jets spraying very nice ... see attached pics.

b) Steppermotor cleaned ==> was little dirty but not too bad.

c) Relaisbox & ECU contacts cleaned ( ... also all sensors & other relais contacts cleaned ) ... see pics before cleaning.

d) The voltage measured from TPS now is fine ==> 0.473 ... when running ( idle )  going up to 0.484 V

    ( ... had to change the wires used ... not red & black like with KTM ==> is green & red with Beta it seems & showing proper Voltage now.

    Could the voltage be a little low ( KTMs adjusting 0.59V => 0.64V I saw on the net ?? ).  Will check later & test some little higher setups.

e) Filter in Tank is fine ==> checked.

f) Had the bike started from cold & idling ( .. no gas ) for 10min's. ==> seems this is doing a RESET on the TPS adjustment ( ... tip from BETA dealer ).
    Couldn't see any change - still 0.473V after the reset!

Difficult now to check the bike & the Backfiring ... after warming up and reffing throttle couldn't really hear or detect any backfiring.
Guess it will need some real riding for proper testing.

Injector_test.jpg

Relaisbox_1.jpg

Relaisbox_2.jpg

Relaisbox_3.jpg

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So, some more points checked !
a) Injectior cleaned & checked ==> 2 seperate clean jets spraying very nice ... see attached pics.
B) Steppermotor cleaned ==> was little dirty but not too bad.
c) Relaisbox & ECU contacts cleaned ( ... also all sensors & other relais contacts cleaned ) ... see pics before cleaning.
d) The voltage measured from TPS now is fine ==> 0.473 ... when running ( idle )  going up to 0.484 V
    ( ... had to change the wires used ... not red & black like with KTM ==> is green & red with Beta it seems & showing proper Voltage now.
    Could the voltage be a little low ( KTMs adjusting 0.59V => 0.64V I saw on the net ?? ).  Will check later & test some little higher setups.
e) Filter in Tank is fine ==> checked.
f) Had the bike started from cold & idling ( .. no gas ) for 10min's. ==> seems this is doing a RESET on the TPS adjustment ( ... tip from BETA dealer ).
    Couldn't see any change - still 0.473V after the reset!
Difficult now to check the bike & the Backfiring ... after warming up and reffing throttle couldn't really hear or detect any backfiring.
Guess it will need some real riding for proper testing.
Injector_test.jpg.e2c7586c63b134f1634b8277fc0422ae.jpg
Relaisbox_1.jpg.1a6aa88a3512f4755087f0686eda216a.jpg
Relaisbox_2.jpg.3ded23304663a5c3c90310351d170089.jpg
Relaisbox_3.thumb.jpg.9b78928510072c3d36b150df9f378899.jpg
Would be interesting to check the reference voltage on the TPS after you cleaned the main relay. The TPS voltage will not change with a relearn it's not supposed too. The relearn is for the stepper motor position I assume it also impacts pulse width and maybe ignition I guess it depends on how smart the system is. Don't go by KTM voltage specs it's a totally different system. Is the spark plug boot and lead ok ? Have you unscrewed the lead out of the cap and checked? This is an often over looked area and can cause your issue
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KTM voltage specs are useless......because they are RESISTANCE specs, not voltage, and they don't apply anyway to Beta.

The Synerject FI system on the Beta does not operate like the Keihin on the KTM's. 

The TPS cannot be altered without a Beta Service Tool. 

The 'factory reset' tells the primary sensors the surrounding air density and temp, so the 'center' for the days use.  This also resets the stepper motors starting position to compensate for any FI changes the ECU made during the reset.

That FI nozzle spray does not look right to me.......I've never tested mine, but I've never seen a dual spray like that before.  I would expect it to be much more atomized and fine.

Edited by KRAYNIAL

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txs gents - had to ravel & due to that my late reply 

a) Injector Spray ... had the same feeling when I first saw the 2 jets, as others I had seen looked different before ... "much more fine spray " - as you mentioned.
    But on a second look the injector also only has TWO HOLES - NOT many small ones as I have seen on other jets before ??
    HAd it removed one more time, reverse cleaned & still the same ... assume this being fine ... will check with the dealer!

   Just want to mention here that " bike idle " is pretty smooth & feels perfect " - only restart when warm is a little weak.

b) Voltage Specs & Relearn also makes sense to me as you both explained. 

c) Too bad I didn't check the backfiring before cleaning and if it really has changed after. As there is no backfiring now ( ... even when bike is warmed up for 10 minutes ) I will need to wait for better weather & check during a real test run I assume.

d) Sparkplug boot I didn't unscrew before but looked all fine when I checked now.

Will update once the test run on the road has shown some results.

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