Beta Dirt Bikes are Slow

[Ben500RR-S]

Almost two years ago, I was shopping for a new 500cc dual sport.  I had a deposit on a 500 EXC.  

I had come across the reviews of the RR-S, the EXC and the FE.  I had no idea what a Beta was, I had never really heard of it.  

I had asked about them on this forum and went on everyones good word about the RS/RR-S.  I sat on one in a dealers showroom.  Had it not been for the guys on here who had the 430/480/500 and let me know how good the bike was and most important to me, how reliable they are, I would not have gone with Beta.  

My 478cc/500 RR-S is fast.  

 

[firffighter]

You know, I couldn't believe the last review from Ron Lawson. He didn't even know that there were RR versions of the Beta 4-strokes. 

These big name US magazines are a million miles away from the days when you actually had unbiased and informative information. 

The CRF450L press release took place up here at our local ridng area. They invited several big name reviewers and industry insiders. They also invited guys who had substantial social media accounts without regard to their ridng acumen. Let's just say one of them has a lot of social media followers, but can't ride to save his life! 

And we're supposed to trust a review from a guy like this! 

[Johnny Depp]

28 minutes ago, Ben500RR-S said:

Almost two years ago, I was shopping for a new 500cc dual sport.  I had a deposit on a 500 EXC.  

I had come across the reviews of the RR-S, the EXC and the FE.  I had no idea what a Beta was, I had never really heard of it.  

I had asked about them on this forum and went on everyones good word about the RS/RR-S.  I sat on one in a dealers showroom.  Had it not been for the guys on here who had the 430/480/500 and let me know how good the bike was and most important to me, how reliable they are, I would not have gone with Beta.  

My 478cc/500 RR-S is fast.  

 

Brilliant marketing strategy by Beta that I'll let you in on. I'm a paid social media ambassador, every post I make that mentions a Beta I get $500. You can't believe all the suckers we've fooled. Like bees to honey. HA got ya.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Johnny Depp

[KatoKonvert]

42 minutes ago, firffighter said:

Yep, Chilly pretty pedestrian rider. I mean, Romaniacs, ISDE, clearly any joker can ride those easy events. 

Oh, and that beginner Tim Coleman that reviews for the Aussy mags, he's a piker too. 

 

These journalists are a total joke. Really, the authority on these Beta's are the TT guys. Just read the reviews from all of these elderly men and you'll find the truth on how these bikes really perform. 

Tim Coleman & his fancy tricks on that pos - pffft.

I raced (used loosely) in the Wildwood Rock Extreme last October & only let him lap me 5 times so I could get a good look at how unbalanced, slow & poorly suspended the RR300 really is!

[Cullins]

2 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

 It could fool the average person, until you realize the hundred's of thousands of dollars spent to hire riders like your son to make those trail bikes look good. Sneaky I tell ya. Not fooling me though, all talent no bike.

LOL, not hardly. The dude on the white KTM is making the hundreds of thousands while the kid on the Beta gets $0 for a salary ?‍♀️.   

Plus Colton is a superior rider. So it’s got to be all the bike?. 

[MartyMOOSE]

Can't see the issue the RRS is not a race bike Beta make a RR and RRE for that. Does the RRS have the dual injectors for 2019 ? 

 

MM 

[Raging Petunia]

 To deliver power. Everyone says so. The press, forums, even owners admit it. Hundreds of comments over the years confirm it. Trail bike type easy to ride power delivery focused on flat torque curves apparently is the culprit. Great for trails, but all wrong for racing or speed.
 I know there has been some racing success on Beta's, and the right rider can make anything look good. Some riders (that don't get it) even take them on tracks, and enter Scrambles and Enduros on these trail bikes. But let's be honest, the bikes are holding them back, even though some get good results they would do better on more competitive modern machinery.
 Even though we like to blame the press for getting reviews wrong all the time, we have to admit that professional testers who ride all sorts of bikes are better judges of a bikes ability than the average weekend warrior who occasionally gets to try different bikes at demo days and such. I know none of the testers want to test a "play bike" in races since it would be a waste of their time, because we all know what would happen. Thankfully Beta doesn't allow their bikes to be put in those situations to be embarrased. The average industry tester has decades of experience of the feel of bikes, and their seat of the pants impression are so valuable that legions of potential buyers wait anxiously for tests so that they can buy the absolute fastest bikes for competition. Those guys are the experts, and the bike tests and shootouts prove who is the best year in and year out, based upon the opinions of these elite testers.
 Manufacturer's also benefit greatly from the testing and feedback done by the testers. Year after year the flaws are pointed out and the engineers burn the midnight oil trying to solve problems and keep up with the Jones's of the Moto world. It may take a few years for these changes to reach production, but when they do, they hope to give these testers the feel they have been asking for and get a glowing revue, therefore boosting sales. 
 I've noticed a few things that I'm sure are completely out of context in some of the testing seen over the years. It's obvious that these (amateurish) testers don' t fully understand their place is to personally opine about the bikes they ride. Using timing equipment gives everyone fake news, it doesn't take into account things like track and trail conditions, different riders, weather and setup etc. As a public service, I'd like to ask that a few things be disregarded (we know they occasionally make mistakes) from consideration of Beta dirt bikes. It is well established that rider input and comfort is far more valuable than lap times, and I personally hope that this new fangled technology of GPS timing devices doesn't undermine decades of experience and common knowledge. Let's not let a few pieces of fake news cause people to mistakenly buy a trailbike for racing use.
Exhibit A: 10. Despite not quite being a race bike, Associate Editor Jess McKinley knocked out race-quality times on it. Jess times all his riding and testing, so he has a vast performance database on a wide variety of trails in varying condition. In the dry summer conditions, aboard the 2019 Beta 350 RR-S, he put his fastest times ever on Los Padres National Forest’s epic Whatta Trail. Even he was surprised, especially with the less-than-ideal Michelin Enduro rubber.
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2018/11/24/2019-beta-350-rr-s-review-14-fast-facts/
Exhibit B: 7km Enduro Loop Results  Beta RR300 10m 45s   Beta RR480 10m 25s  (10:29 mark on the video) 480 faster than a 300 on an Enduro Loop? Ha Ha
 

Textbook for for how to start a thread that will be in the "hot" category for quite a while.[emoji2] make it as controversial as possible, lots of things stated as fact, pull out every detail you can find that supports your "facts", Ignore anything that doesn't.
If your new to TT this is how you do it.

[Armbarn sailor]

I think the flourescent betas were the hottest thing since the nac nac. I dont ride single track, i ride moto, have for almost 30 years. Let me clean this up, people are getting excited and apparently offended (its all the rage now a days).... there isnt any offroad mags per se in America, we have dirt bike that sort of flops over to offroad for a few weeks at the end of fall. Beta isnt a popular bike really, my ktm/husky dealer has 3 betas currently 2 300rr and 1 smaller version of the 300, not sure if its a playbike model i thought it was called a trainer or something. Good looking bikes, well built, all the bells and whistles plus a few more above ktm on the bike protection side of things. Its not a moto bike. It will never be. Motomags will never accept it as one. Since it isnt or ever will be a moto bike, the mags arent going to say its fast or has plush suspenders....to them its not. I think they are nice, but they arent as snappy as an xc or tx 300, which is a problem for magazines that take every bike they touch to a moto track to see if its good, despite being purpose built for trail. Im a fan of somewhat slower bikes. I race moto, yes, but i also grew up with a few very very successful enduro racers who have competed in isde six day stuff and have certainly flown the world over to the places most guys here only watch on tv, and have rode their bikes, and have seen that a heavy flywheel effect on a 2 stroke makes a better power in moto. For the most part, motomags dedicate lots of time telling people how to make their bikes faster so they have explosive powerbands and are hard to ride fast and once done doing all they do to bikes you will have a beautiful fire breathing unrideable bike that spins instead of hooks up, is so stiff everything feels like you are bottoming out or the forks arent working, and generally you will lose every single race due to your bike being too fast and you being slow. How great it would be if these mags could actually twist the throttle to the stops, have suspension soak up the bumps its designed to soak up for you, have a platform that isnt fast....but is effective at promoting a stronger ride from a less then pro type person because the bike doesnt scare you. You would think anyways.... i rode a beta 300rr, i have a 2019 tx300 set up for moto, the beta isnt as snappy but im betting it could be made so with some jets and a screwdriver or the head milled and squish dialed in better....just like the tx300, i got my jetting together, put the red spring and a pipe on it and its moto, i would and could do the same thing with a beta. Honestly the pink betas are the sexiest bike ive seen in a very long time and wouldnt mind having one to moto if it came with aer forks!

[hawaiidirtrider]

That’s a great title for a Beta thread. Maybe it can thin out those not actually really interested in Betas. .. then again maybe not. Some don’t get it. Some are mx guys that don’t ride enduro. I mean why not get an mx bike to race mx for ex? Ride enduro with an enduro bike..but then enduro does cover a wide variety of riding and racing. .. Usually the mx guys are less likely to ride hard enduro though. 

The great thing is I can update my ignore list .. ? 

Edited January 14, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[ADVLite]

I’ve started using the hashtag #BetasAreBest - it gets quite a reaction so I think I’ll make some stickers LOL

 

[Johnny Depp]

13 hours ago, MartyMOOSE said:

Can't see the issue the RRS is not a race bike Beta make a RR and RRE for that. Does the RRS have the dual injectors for 2019 ? 

 

MM 

Marty you came to the Party with no booze. Go have a few and jump back in here, but don't be so serious next time....

The bikes are 90% or more the same. When the RR-S sets the fastest time in an enduro loop of any bike the tester has ever ridden, that just goes to show you that the throttle must have been sticking

[hawaiidirtrider]

2 hours ago, ADVLite said:

I’ve started using the hashtag #BetasAreBest - it gets quite a reaction so I think I’ll make some stickers LOL

 

I think it touches some serious insecurities. I mean in the last couple years a bunch have come to Beta threads trolling. You never see Beta guys trolling other brand threads. I mean what for right?  If you like your bike then it doesn’t matter right? .. but when you purposely go to another brand threads purposely trying to trash thebrand???  ??   I have ridden all brands except for a couple like TM and Sherco. .. and all brands make good bikes. It is just about riding dirt bikes. .. and of course I can buy and have bought what I like best. ?

Edited January 14, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[Johnny Depp]

If Beta is ever going to shed their label of "Playbikes" some serious changes are in order. Maybe they never will, but here's what I reckon it would take to get the ugly boat up to speed:

* longer knobbies (ask anyone)

* less flywheel effect on the engine (the fast guys never stall)

* a powerband with a HIT (think popping the front end for wheelies)

* lose 40-50 lbs (leave off all the heavy guards and skid plates like KTM)

* drop the warranty (racers ain't skeered)

* pick a color (are you a Honda clone or a Husky clone?)

* get a brand name suspension (at least people will buy it even if it sucks)

* Go Hi Tech (I want someone to adjust my powerband in the pits from a cell phone after the start)

That's all the free tips I'll offer for now, I just hate to see a 100 year old company fall flat on it's ass, so it's the least I can do.?

 

[redhurricane]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

If Beta is ever going to shed their label of "Playbikes" some serious changes are in order. Maybe they never will, but here's what I reckon it would take to get the ugly boat up to speed:

* longer knobbies (ask anyone)

* less flywheel effect on the engine (the fast guys never stall)

* a powerband with a HIT (think popping the front end for wheelies)

* lose 40-50 lbs (leave off all the heavy guards and skid plates like KTM)

* drop the warranty (racers ain't skeered)

* pick a color (are you a Honda clone or a Husky clone?)

* get a brand name suspension (at least people will buy it even if it sucks)

* Go Hi Tech (I want someone to adjust my powerband in the pits from a cell phone after the start)

That's all the free tips I'll offer for now, I just hate to see a 100 year old company fall flat on it's ass, so it's the least I can do.?

 

Now you're just being ridiculous. Everyone knows that voice activated powerband and ignition timing adjustment via Alexa is the next step. Once they work the bugs out of that then live real time suspension adjustments can be made- "coming up short, increase compression damping"........

 

Once that happens Tony Alessi can come out of retirement and be hacking competitors' bikes on the track. 

[firffighter]

I'd add outsourcing parts to India, China, Korea, etc. Everyone knows this tactic results in quality and performance success. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

49 minutes ago, firffighter said:

I'd add outsourcing parts to India, China, Korea, etc. Everyone knows this tactic results in quality and performance success. 

Naw china makes iphones maybe bangladesh?

[Piney Woods]

1 hour ago, firffighter said:

I'd add outsourcing parts to India, China, Korea, etc. Everyone knows this tactic results in quality and performance success. 

Racist?

[hawaiidirtrider]

Here’s one. Betas are so shitty that I bought 4 of them since 2009 ???. There that proves it right!!!?

Edited January 15, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider

[Beta300REcat]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:21 PM, Edgecombe said:

All I can say is I love mine so far and I dont read to much into reviews from magazines.  They're kinda like celebrities talking about which politician to vote for. Living in a fancy world is not the same as real life for an average person.

Thanks for your endorsement. Can I see your AARP card? ?

48 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Here’s one. Betas are so shitty that I bought 4 of them since 2009 ???. There that proves it right!!!?

Hey, living on an island will do funny things to your brain.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Beta300recat

[hawaiidirtrider]

4 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Thanks for your endorsement. Can I see your AARP card? ?

Hey, living on an island will do funny things to your brain.

Can’t argue there. I had the AARP but gave up the membership. I figured this year I decided to get younger.