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The true 250 vs 300 comparison.

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4 minutes ago, NW_drZ said:

Ive been toying with the idea of getting the rekluse manual pressure plate so I can keep the nice rekluse components and swap between the 2 with ease.  Id also get 3 of their medium clutch plate springs to match the current 3 med and remove the 3 heavy on the auto.  Basically to lighten the clutch pull.  My biggest gripe when I got the Beta new was how much harder the clutch pull was than the KTM and huskies.  So to answer your question, no I'm still on the auto but I have really been contemplating getting the manual setup.  

 https://www.amazon.com/IronMind-Captains-Crush-Hand-Gripper/dp/B006G377UQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547491214&sr=8-1&keywords=captains+of+crush

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6 minutes ago, GP said:

I was just joking around but seriously get the head cut properly.  Steve did your forks right?  Get the shock done to match the forks and ride it more.   The suspension is so much more important than any motor work at your (and my) level. 

My neighbor's young son is 9, and that kid goes where we do on a CRF 80!  Were all amazed and call him "Little Jarvis" the way he can pop the little bike up and over big stuff.  He has less low end than us!

Glenn, Steve revalved both my forks and shock and the springs are setup for my weight.  I have no complaints with my setup and actually quite like it.

As for the head, getting RK tek to cut either the stocker or one of these inserts is the potential plan.  Im curious though how the S3 would run with proper jetting as it seemed very lean yesterday when I first tested.  

At this point, I have a suspicion that the rekluse may be covering up some of the 250RR bottom end.  The Beta clutch drags quite a bit so with the rekluse I can't run the low engagement setup, otherwise it stalls a lot..

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26 minutes ago, NW_drZ said:

Ya im all over the place right now haha.. I could barely sleep last night as I kept contemplating the next thing I need to do to get the bike where I want ;)

Just ride it more and start riding it different ways.. lugg it up short shifting low rpm and on ther times just turn on the gas.. mx it up just a little.... not too low gears now winding out too fast now..  then there’s power valve and gearing and different tire choices and even ergos adjustments for later. Yea it’s fun figuring your bike and where you want it to go ! I feel like that too!!

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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First bike I rode at the Demo was the 250. "Get used to the lack of top like this 250" I thought peeling through the gate, around the first two corners and up Horsepower Hill.


I can't say I agree there. My 250 even in stock form hauled the F'n mail when you were on the pipe. With the RK Head on, it was rocket ship. On the Pipe, almost nothing knocked it out of the power.

Last summer I was in a Harescramble with a pretty wide open loop. Pretty well GNCC style terrain, fast open stuff with a ton of WOT. Me and a buddy of mine (that rides a 2017 TE300) were back and forth for the lead - so it's safe to see we were both 'on it'. I ended up taking the win (mostly because I was in better shape in the end), but after the race he said to me, "Man, that 250 gives up absolutely nothing to my 300. There were times you were pulling away from me on the throttle".

It comes back to where I said you need the RPM for horsepower with the 250. The 250 is setup to make its power further up, because it has to. The 300 is designed to have that grunt down low, so that you don't need to spin it up so much. Since they focus that power down low, it does hurt the top a little bit.

TBH I knew about all this in theory, and have seen the posts about "You just need to ride them differently". But I truly wasn't expecting for for them to be ridden so differently in reality. For only a 44cc difference between the 2, the difference is surprising.
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3 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Just ride it more and start riding it different ways.. lugg it up short shifting low rpm and on ther times just turn on the gas.. mx it up just a little.... not too low gears now winding out too fast now..  then there’s power valve and gearing and different tire choices and even ergos adjustments for later. Yea it’s fun figuring your bike and where you want it to go ! I feel like that too!!

Nothing like having a 4t and a 2t so that you don't develop bad habits. :thumbsup:

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Just now, NW_drZ said:

Glenn, Steve revalved both my forks and shock and the springs are setup for my weight.  I have no complaints with my setup and actually quite like it.

As for the head, getting RK tek to cut either the stocker or one of these inserts is the potential plan.  Im curious though how the S3 would run with proper jetting as it seemed very lean yesterday when I first tested.  

At this point, I have a suspicion that the rekluse may be covering up some of the 250RR bottom end.  The Beta clutch drags quite a bit so with the rekluse I can't run the low engagement setup, otherwise it stalls a lot..

You went through a set of plates correct?  So yeah a lot of slipping going on.  I have a ton more hours and don't go through plates like that.  Plus I rarely stall the bike, no more than when it was a 300. Mine also does not drag.  Every auto I have ridden left something on the table. 

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Just now, Goatse said:

I can't say I agree there. My 250 even in stock form hauled the F'n mail when you were on the pipe. With the RK Head on, it was rocket ship. On the Pipe, almost nothing knocked it out of the power.
 

 

I think you just did.

The 300 doesn't make top like the 250.................................... :ride:

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3 minutes ago, Goatse said:


TBH I knew about all this in theory, and have seen the posts about "You just need to ride them differently". But I truly wasn't expecting for for them to be ridden so differently in reality. For only a 44cc difference between the 2, the difference is surprising.

Me either, couldn't agree more. :cheers:

Edited by Beta300recat
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I think you just did.



The 300 doesn't make top like the 250.................................... default_ride.gif
My bad. I took your post,

"Get used to the lack of top like this 250"

as meaning the 250 had a lack of top end.

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I just don't like all the power so soon.  I'd rather work more for it, than against it.  I feel more confident and fresh at the end of the day on the 250.   But I'm near sea level and only 185lbs so YRMV.

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9 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Nothing like having a 4t and a 2t so that you don't develop bad habits. :thumbsup:

Yea I gotta get back on the 4 stroke.. I’m more on the 2 these days. Both great but if had to choose?    2t

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5 minutes ago, Goatse said:

My bad. I took your post,

"Get used to the lack of top like this 250"

as meaning the 250 had a lack of top end.

Sorry about that.

My 300 was underwhelming around the yard.

Once the going got tough.......................... :ride:

I wind up my 4t more now after riding the 300.

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1 minute ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Yea I gotta get back on the 4 stroke.. I’m more on the 2 these days. Both great but if had to choose?    2t

Definitely!! :cheers:

When people want to convince me that a 4t has a bunch of advantages, I fall pretty silent except for the occasional, 'uh hu'. :rolleyes:

I really don't miss the compression braking, in fact I think it's a pain in the ass with as good as the rear brake is on my RE. :smirk:

 

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I just don't like all the power so soon.  I'd rather work more for it, than against it.  I feel more confident and fresh at the end of the day on the 250.   But I'm near sea level and only 185lbs so YRMV.
That might be the difference. This loop yesterday was from 4-6000' ASL. I'm currently 177lbs, but race weight typically high 160's. So I'm hoping 10 less pounds will make even more of a difference. At no point did I ever feel like the bike was ever getting away from me (like 450's I've ridden). It was felt like there was just enough to keep the bike going, and never a "Whoa Nellie" moment.
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9 minutes ago, GP said:

I just don't like all the power so soon.  I'd rather work more for it, than against it.  I feel more confident and fresh at the end of the day on the 250.   But I'm near sea level and only 185lbs so YRMV.

I'm 175 and sea level, and now that my rings are seated; yes, it's a handful for sure, but I don't mind.

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Its not that it gets away, its just more to manage that I don't need.  An inadvertent crack of the throttle from tagging a tree or rock in a corner puts you a lot closer to a whisky throttle moment   Plus it feels a bit heavier in the corners.   I find that more work than a little more clutch and focus on the 250. 

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9 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Definitely!! :cheers:

When people want to convince me that a 4t has a bunch of advantages, I fall pretty silent except for the occasional, 'uh hu'. :rolleyes:

I really don't miss the compression braking, in fact I think it's a pain in the ass with as good as the rear brake is on my RE. :smirk:

 

I think everyone is a little different on how they ride and what they are used to and what they like and of course we ride in different areas.  I just learned to enjoy different ways of riding too on different days. I like engine braking on my 525 and 350. I just use my brake way less. The off idle and smoother cleaner torque off on the 2 stroke just is an advantage though. Both are good of course. I like that I have both choices but I notice that when Im riding 4 stroke I sometimes feel the need for braaap 2t. But not so much the other way around.

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This year was fun for me because I had the opportunity to get a lot of seat time on a wide variety of bikes. The X Trainer, a new Husky 501, and a Husky FE350, a new Beta 300rr, and of course my brother's 250rr. 

Our last 3 day ridng trip in October I had the chance to ride my brother's 250rr and my buddy's 300rr back to back. 

Like others have mentioned, you'd think they aren't that much different, but they are. The power delivery, the inertia are quite different and this affects other aspects like handling, rider fatigue, clutch and throttle control, etc. 

The terrain ridden and how you ride make a significant difference as well. If you're riding extremely technical slow gnarly trails, the 300 is much easier to get traction to the ground and you use the low rpms to carry you. The quicker revs of the 250 make traction in these conditions more of a challenge. 

As you get into the trees and there's room to breath, this is where I like the 250. It's more fun, free revving and feels a lot lighter due to less inertia. 

The 300 can wear guys out if you're not ridng it a gear high, or are on the less fit end of the spectrum. My years on the 300 I simply rode them a gear high, let momentum carry you, take advantage of the low rpm traction and you're set. But, the fun factor is much higher on the 250 in flowing terrain. This is where I'm excited to eventually get the 200! You want a bike for flowing woods that puts a huge smile on your face, it's the 200! 

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Sounds like most of the riders here are 175-185+ lb on the 300.  I ride a KTM 250 with RK head and I weigh around 149, so the power to weight ratio is similar for me on the 250 as it is for bigger riders on the 300.  I'm tempted to try a 300 or at least try a 300 kit on the 250 to see how different it is to ride a 300 but to be honest at my weight the 250 with the RK head doesn't ever seem to lack for low end for me and it has the mid-range and up snap of a 2t that I like.  

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1 minute ago, supranatural said:

Sounds like most of the riders here are 175-185+ lb on the 300.  I ride a KTM 250 with RK head and I weigh around 149, so the power to weight ratio is similar for me on the 250 as it is for bigger riders on the 300.  I'm tempted to try a 300 or at least try a 300 kit on the 250 to see how different it is to ride a 300 but to be honest at my weight the 250 with the RK head doesn't ever seem to lack for low end for me and it has the mid-range and up snap of a 2t that I like.  

There's one 300 rider that I know that definitely weighs in excess of 149 pounds. :cry:

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