supercross Red Death (Revisited)

[MANIAC998]

All of us have heard and perhaps joined in on the “Red Death” mantra, me included. It’s fun, harmless and makes for good banter on the Pro forum!

But could there be any merit to it? Could the chassis flex in a certain way, storing additional energy that unloads at the worst time? Or could it be the twin silencers adding additional rotational mass causing additional pitch to a rebounding rear end??

 I have no idea either way, but the Pro forum has some pretty clever individuals, so let’s hear some thoughts!

[Arctic Pride]

Roczen, Seely and Martin all within 1 year, Mookie just missed the cut...

[ah665]

I wish I knew if there was any merit to it. And maybe if I owned a Honda, I could give input from first hand experience, but that would just be silly.

[OUTERLIMITS]

I don't think there is any design flaw in that bike, although the twin pipe idea I don't like at all.  Most people seem to rave about the handling on the 2018-2019's.  It's just one of those things unless you believe in superstition.  Granted, Tomac and JMart hit the dirt in outdoors, but it seems to be mostly supercross where most of the injuries are occurring and those guys are pushing it to the ragged edge.  Tomac could have been trail riding when he went down with the lead he had, but chose to hold the pace.  All those guys were pushing hard.   

[Piney Woods]

My last steel framed CR250 was the most perfect suspended and handling bike I have had/ridden in forty + years. I have been riding modded susp bikes since my '75 Penton and know good from bad. My AL framed 01 CR has been a jackhammer that has gotten worse after PRO GURU revalves. I blame the AL frame.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Piney Woods

[Mongo134]

1 hour ago, MANIAC998 said:

All of us have heard and perhaps joined in on the “Red Death” mantra, me included. It’s fun, harmless and makes for good banter on the Pro forum!

But could there be any merit to it? Could the chassis flex in a certain way, storing additional energy that unloads at the worst time? Or could it be the twin silencers adding additional rotational mass causing additional pitch to a rebounding rear end??

 I have no idea either way, but the Pro forum has some pretty clever individuals, so let’s hear some thoughts!

What does history show you on the myth of Red Death?

David Baily paralyzed on Honda during practice crash.

Danny Chandler nearly bled to death hanging in barbed wire at home during practice crash on a Honda

Rickey Johnson career ending injury on a Honda

Rickey Carmichael, only season he never completed was on a Honda due to injury.

Ernesto Fonseca paralyzed on a Honda

Doug Henry broken back due to stuck open throttle on a Honda

Chad Reed SX ending knee injury while on a Honda and the "Chadapult" while at the top of the points during a 2nd National title hunt.... on a Honda

Trey Canard mutiple season ending injuries due to broken bones on a Honda

Eli Tomac major Colorado dirt nap on a Honda

Ken Roczen...... Do I even need to state the obvious?.... Honda

Christian Craig......multiple broken bones causing missed races on a Honda

Cole Seely broken hip and multiple other bones on a Honda

Macolm Stewart broken femur on a Honda

Those are just the names that come to mind at the moment......And I haven't even touched the 250's yet.....(Jeremy Martin)

 

So let's look at it from a different angle. A different question..... Which major championship caliper racers haven't been "majorly" hurt on a Honda? Only Mickey Dymond, Jeff Stanton and Jean Michele Bayle come to mind and I might be wrong on the first two. Compare that to the list above. I don't think it's "parts" or setup either.  It's no "myth" bro.......the curse is real!

Edited January 14, 2019 by Mongo134

[MotorBoatin]

Let me educate you on the history of the Red Death

 

What we know as the Red Death today is not as it once was. Today we see it as full of hate and malice but it was once considered a noble yet nameless entity full of love and admiration for the sport of racing. This all changed in 1968 with the demise of Honda's Formula 1 racing effort. With the sudden cancellation of its one true calling the entity that was seen as good luck by the Honda engineers was lost with nowhere to go. Through the long years of wondering the vast halls of the Honda compound the entity was forgotten and slowly turned vengeful and wicked

Behold the birth of what we now know as the Red Death....1964

  

 

 

 

 

The mid 70's through early 80's was a time that many would call the Honda golden years and after more than a decade of wandering the entity came across what it thought was a most peculiar thing....The ATC

 

After years of never giving the strange three wheeled contraption much thought the entity began seeing warehouses full of the abominations and that is when the now evil and spiteful entity devised a plan 

Thousands were injured and hospitalized. Some even died. Honda fought hard to curtail the bad publicity but in the end the entity was just too strong and we all know what happened

Having great foresight and knowing the demise of the ATC was imminent the entity now forming into what we know today started looking for a new home. After great thought and consideration the entity decided that race bikes were it's future. An inherently dangerous machine that is labeled "For closed course competition only" would be free of over bearing mothers be ignored by the money grubbing lawyers and best of all have no federal government oversight

 

 

The new home of the Red Death

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Red Death is real  

Edited January 14, 2019 by MotorBoatin

[Piney Woods]

Jezebel!

[OUTERLIMITS]

22 minutes ago, MotorBoatin said:

The new home of the Red Death

 

Hey, I owned that bike and I'm still here.  

[MotorBoatin]

22 minutes ago, OUTERLIMITS said:

Hey, I owned that bike and I'm still here.  

After years of maiming the public with the ATC the Red Death evolved once again. It has now focused all of it's overwhelming malice and contempt to afflict pain and hardship on the one that hurt it so long ago.....Honda

After years of successes and failures the Red Death has become strong. So strong that no mortal can withstand it's will. Just ask Ricky, he knows what really happened that clear November day in 2003

 

Honda will never again win the series it covets most....Supercross 

Edited January 14, 2019 by MotorBoatin

[Piney Woods]

2 hours ago, OUTERLIMITS said:

Hey, I owned that bike and I'm still here.  

And you call that a positive?

[redrider144]

2 hours ago, Mongo134 said:

So let's look at it from a different angle. A different question..... Which major championship caliper racers haven't been "majorly" hurt on a Honda? Only Mickey Dymond, Jeff Stanton and Jean Michele Bayle come to mind and I might be wrong on the first two. Compare that to the list above. I don't think it's "parts" or setup either.  It's no "myth" bro.......the curse is real!

Jeff Stanton - I'm fairly certain he was a cyborg with an iron skeleton

JMB - he saw the writing on the wall and bailed early, similar to McGrath.  But JMB also had to ride the rear brake to tame the beast.  

[Crusty Cy]

I’m still upset over the CPSC killing the ATC’s.  Every time I visit my brother in MO I can’t wait to hop on my sister in laws ATC 90 (all original).  It brings a huge grin to my face as I wonder what Honda was thinking.  I too saw the light and left the red death in 2008.  All Yamaha now except for a two year stint on that over rated Austrian brand.  No offense of course.  Too bad for Malcolm though, he was really hauling through the whoops.  What’s strange is the way the new Hondas seem to be cruising and then all of a sudden lose traction.  Probably not the twin pipes, but the way the chassis interacts under on and off power situations (flex?). My brother just happens to be an engineer... maybe he can check the ATC90 for clues... 

[redrider144]

3 hours ago, MotorBoatin said:

The mid 70's through early 80's was a time that many would call the Honda golden years and after more than a decade of wandering the entity came across what it thought was a most peculiar thing....The ATC

I believe this may have been the most wicked form of the ATC:

[MotorBoatin]

34 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

I believe this may have been the most wicked form of the ATC:

 

Death was long gone before that thing rolled of the line

He realized that trikes didn’t need his help in wreaking havoc on the world 

Edited January 15, 2019 by MotorBoatin

[Creeature]

It's just physics brah... Science...

[Doug Fugly]

Weird, now that I think about it, I have broken bones on a Hodaka, Kawasakis, and a Zuke, but never on the Honda or Yamaha. But... I disliked those two and only owned them briefly. My Elsinore was the shizzle back in 74, but went through 2'nd gears like mad, my first-year WR250F handled like a pig.

[ah665]

17 hours ago, redrider144 said:

I believe this may have been the most wicked form of the ATC:

I'd own that version of the ATC 250R. Those are awesome. Also, I'd love to have a totally stock TRX250R (preferably 86-87 but any will do). I wouldn't ride them but just always thought they were awesome, growing up. But modern Hondas just don't do it for me. Can't see myself buying one. And the curse is real. Ppl get jacked on them lol. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by ah665

[MANIAC998]

2 hours ago, ah665 said:

I'd own that version of the ATC 250R. Those are awesome. Also, I'd love to have a totally stock TRX250R (preferably 96-87 but any will do). I wouldn't ride them but just always thought they were awesome, growing up. But modern Hondas just don't do it for me. Can't see myself buying one. And the curse is real. Ppl get jacked on them lol. 

I bought that exact model when I ETS’d from the Army. It was used, but nearly mint. It only needed two bolts replaced with the oem “dished” Honda fasteners and then it was MINT!! Payed $600 for it in ‘88.

[ah665]

5 minutes ago, MANIAC998 said:

I bought that exact model when I ETS’d from the Army. It was used, but nearly mint. It only needed two bolts replaced with the oem “dished” Honda fasteners and then it was MINT!! Payed $600 for it in ‘88.

That's awesome! Still have it?