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ktoom

2019 yz450f cornering

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Okay guys, does the 2019 yz450f finally corner good?

Im in the market for a new 2019. Ive narrowed it down to the kx450, crf450r and yz450f. My current bike is 13 kx450 that i bought new. I love this bike, but im ready to try something else. I thought i was going to just buy a 19 kx450, but it doesnt sound like its a powerhouse like my 2013. Im a heavier rider at 260lb, so the power of the crf and yzf are very appealing. I rode my buddies 16 kx450f and it felt slow compared to my 2013. With my current bike, i had to put triple clamps on and a lowering link to get it to corner easier. Mind this bike loves to be steer'ed with the rear. 

I might add that i tried a friends 2017 yz450f and it felt like the bike had a hinge in it when you went to turn or corner. I wasnt very impressed with the bike, but i think with some suspension tuning my buddies bike could be better.

Just looking for peoples thoughts. Especially guys that might have had better turning bikes like the crf or rmz before they tried the yamaha.

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I came from a 2017 CRF. My 2018 YZ is the best bike i have ever rode. Not quite as quick handling/turning as the honda, but thats not a bad thing for me. The honda was very twitchy and unstable in comparison. While the YZ might feel a little slower in corners and heavier on initial lean in, it is much more stable, planted, and predictable. In a straight line and in the corners. The 19 is supposed to be slightly inproved over the 18 also

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I recently switched from 18.5 rockstar husky to a 19 yz450.  Be honest with yourself  If you are a good rider ( have solid Technique  ) the yz will corner good. However It feels a bit top heavy or flops over in a way I don't care for.

I had a 17 cr450 cornered too good / twitchy. & gave me arm pump faster than any bike i can remember. fast motor.

I have ridden a 19 kx corners easy & falls into corners & ruts almost effortlessly . . A pipe will wake it up nicely . But I would be weary of quality seems cheap feeling. stock motor ok power  & easy to ride.

The KTM / husky's  are great bikes but feel a bit lazy & workman like less fun overall to ride . But race / lap time machines. I had vortex ignition & CV forks. This adds 4K to cost

The yz suspension is great stock. However I lowered my forks 9mm , installed enzo spring perches &  1 rate stiffer spring.... lowered the rear 9mm & run a 1mm longer link ..13mm over all lower.  Along with this I run thinner / softer lower front motor mounts that are apx 5mm thick.

Also very important are lower bar mounts for proper rider triangle. The bars feel awkwardly high.

Result is a better feel at turn in less stand up on corner exit. The front tire now feels like it has a larger contact patch/ better traction while not being front biased . I felt stock the bike had a tall center of gravity & lacked some corner precision . My motor is stock with TP map.

At 260lbs you will need springs on any bike. But out of the box the yz will still feel better than any of the others. I rode an 18 yz the best I remember is it was super soft springs & valving.

 

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Great information.  So are there triple clamps to go along with the lowering links to help the 2018 and up yz450f turn?

like said above I have a friend with a 2013 kx450.....  A ride engineering triple clamp set along with the lowering link really turned turned the bike around and  made it into one of the best handling - turning  bikes.

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No triple clamps for me .  I made the 9mm spacers that fit inside the fork cartridges & used Enzo spring perches shortened by 9mm so no mods to stock plastic spring perch's. Can all go back stock if I want to. I use a 2.8mm shock spacer from SDI.   With 1 mm longer link.

My opinion is every  1mm in front needs about 1.3 to 1.4 mm  in rear.

One very important thing is smoothing out the motor hit  for corner exit.   For me the chassis is sensitive to the throttle  this can upset the bike causing it to pop up out of rut  or drift wide . I make it a bit more ktm like ( smooth/ calm  )

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45 minutes ago, mxracer515 said:

I recently switched from 18.5 rockstar husky to a 19 yz450.  Be honest with yourself  If you are a good rider ( have solid Technique  ) the yz will corner good. However It feels a bit top heavy or flops over in a way I don't care for.

I had a 17 cr450 cornered too good / twitchy. & gave me arm pump faster than any bike i can remember. fast motor.

I have ridden a 19 kx corners easy & falls into corners & ruts almost effortlessly . . A pipe will wake it up nicely . But I would be weary of quality seems cheap feeling. stock motor ok power  & easy to ride.

The KTM / husky's  are great bikes but feel a bit lazy & workman like less fun overall to ride . But race / lap time machines. I had vortex ignition & CV forks. This adds 4K to cost

The yz suspension is great stock. However I lowered my forks 9mm , installed enzo spring perches &  1 rate stiffer spring.... lowered the rear 9mm & run a 1mm longer link ..13mm over all lower.  Along with this I run thinner / softer lower front motor mounts that are apx 5mm thick.

Also very important are lower bar mounts for proper rider triangle. The bars feel awkwardly high.

Result is a better feel at turn in less stand up on corner exit. The front tire now feels like it has a larger contact patch/ better traction while not being front biased . I felt stock the bike had a tall center of gravity & lacked some corner precision . My motor is stock with TP map.

At 260lbs you will need springs on any bike. But out of the box the yz will still feel better than any of the others. I rode an 18 yz the best I remember is it was super soft springs & valving.

 

This is exactly the info I was looking for. Your are 100% correct about technique and being able to corner good. My 13 kawi tough me that I could make any bike corner. That bike is big and heavy, but when properly setup and with proper technique it is pretty good. Hense the reason why im thinking about giving the Yamaha a try. Although the way you describe how its top heavy or just flops over, thats the feed back I want to hear about. The thing I like about the Yamaha is that I most likely only need  springs/revalve.

As far as the Kawi goes, im hoping that there are a few more pipe tests in the next few months. Maybe someone will find the right one to liven the bike up. 

Seems like everyone has the same comments about the honda being twitchy. Im sure some have found a fix for it, but had to give up something else in return. 

 

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Ktoom, The top heavy high feel does go away . It is mostly noticeable switching back to back yz to husky, as i had both at the same time .

Great bike just not as effortless a turning chassis as some other brands.

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17 minutes ago, mxracer515 said:

Ktoom, The top heavy high feel does go away . It is mostly noticeable switching back to back yz to husky, as i had both at the same time .

Great bike just not as effortless a turning chassis as some other brands.

what do you weigh? 

 

thanks

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I love how Yamahas corner. Some call it "vague", but as a bigger rider I have no issues getting my weight over the front end to make it bite. They are more middle weight bias, versus front weight bias. I can ride the Yamahas so much more aggressively, and while it is a little more tiring, it's so much more fun. They are more stable for me too. I went from a 2015 RMZ 450 to a 2017 YZ450F, and hands down I prefer the Yamaha. I have a modified 2018 Husky FC now and I still prefer the stock 17' YZ450F lol. I bleed blue I guess, I just like that vague turning and rear steering for some reason. 

Doesn't matter what I like though. It sounds like you know you prefer a more front weight bias bike? You like how the old Kawis and Yamahas feel, but want something that requires less turn initiation? Good news is the new 19' green and blue 450s should turn significantly easier than their older counterparts. The 2019 KX improved both the top and bottom end over the 2015-2018 version, and all the magazine outlets reported it being noticeable. Some said they went to the richer coupler to smooth out the engine, meaning it's probably fast. 

That being said, I see your situation as you are after a Honda. Get the 2019 Honda! It's should have the engine and handling combination you are searching for.

Edited by Freakazoid

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13 hours ago, Freakazoid said:

I love how Yamahas corner. Some call it "vague", but as a bigger rider I have no issues getting my weight over the front end to make it bite. They are more middle weight bias, versus front weight bias. I can ride the Yamahas so much more aggressively, and while it is a little more tiring, it's so much more fun. They are more stable for me too. I went from a 2015 RMZ 450 to a 2017 YZ450F, and hands down I prefer the Yamaha. I have a modified 2018 Husky FC now and I still prefer the stock 17' YZ450F lol. I bleed blue I guess, I just like that vague turning and rear steering for some reason. 

Doesn't matter what I like though. It sounds like you know you prefer a more front weight bias bike? You like how the old Kawis and Yamahas feel, but want something that requires less turn initiation? Good news is the new 19' green and blue 450s should turn significantly easier than their older counterparts. The 2019 KX improved both the top and bottom end over the 2015-2018 version, and all the magazine outlets reported it being noticeable. Some said they went to the richer coupler to smooth out the engine, meaning it's probably fast. 

That being said, I see your situation as you are after a Honda. Get the 2019 Honda! It's should have the engine and handling combination you are searching for.

Thanks for your input on the yamaha.

For what im looking for, You hit the nail right on the head in your second paragraph. Before i got my KX, i had a new 2012 rmz250. I loved the way the bike cornered and had a good engine... i only got rid of it because I wanted to get back on a 450. Needless to say, ive never owned a 450 that was more of a front steering bike and so im curious to try one.

Granted my KX can tire you out quicker cuz of the power, it is very fun to ride. The extra power is nice at times. I actually run the aggressive coupler on my 450 as it makes the bike more responsive for my weight and skill level(plus 30 expert).

 

 

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On 1/14/2019 at 7:35 PM, mxracer515 said:

No triple clamps for me .  I made the 9mm spacers that fit inside the fork cartridges & used Enzo spring perches shortened by 9mm so no mods to stock plastic spring perch's. Can all go back stock if I want to. I use a 2.8mm shock spacer from SDI.   With 1 mm longer link.

My opinion is every  1mm in front needs about 1.3 to 1.4 mm  in rear.

One very important thing is smoothing out the motor hit  for corner exit.   For me the chassis is sensitive to the throttle  this can upset the bike causing it to pop up out of rut  or drift wide . I make it a bit more ktm like ( smooth/ calm  )

You are right on the money about power delivery especially with the 18 and staying in a straight line coming out of the corner,not drifting.

 

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I love that gnarl and hit I get from the bottom end of the YZ450F, although I am over 200lbs without gear and normally ride at altitude. It makes the bike feel much lighter than it is, and it makes it more fun for me almost more like a two stroke power band. I have never had so much fun on a four stroke as I have on the YZ. The YZ power band really feels like it was designed to work perfectly with a rear steering bike lol, which I personally like. The torque moves the bike around easily, so I don't have to. In ruts it's not the best I guess, but I can just roll through most spots with the momentum behind me and the big bike, Almost everywhere else I prefer this type of power. This bike is amazing stock in deep sand or rough tracks. I love my 17', because it is the perfect rear steering 450, whereas the newer YZ450 seems to put more emphasis on front weight bias and ability to turn in anywhere. That and it seems like each year they (all the manufacturers) keep mellowing the power for smoother and faster delivery. But that sucks for heavy guys trying to just have fun and who don't care about lap times.. I haven't ridden the newer versions yet, but went 17' simply because I wanted the most stable, most rear steering motorcycle of the bunch. Keefer told me to go 17' too Most Kawi's I ride are close to this same feeling I'm describing, if anyone is wondering..

 

My 17' YZ450 has much less engine braking feel than my 2018 FC350 does, which is weird because all the magazines call the YZ a "beast". I've heard the newer one's have even less engine braking, which is remarkable. The Yamahas are so natural and easy to ride for me. I'm even more astonished that the new CRF450R feels "much" faster than  the Yamaha. I am blown away by how fast the YZ is, I don't need anymore, and I'm a heavy intermediate MX rider. It's a rocket, to say the least. The Honda must be a freakin' star wars fast. 

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if you are a 'solid' intermediate or higher rider with above average riding technique, then yes, the 19 corners better and you will notice the difference if you have a previous model to compare. I have both the 18 and the 19 yz450f bikes and i thought the 18 was a significant improvement from the 17. but the 19 has an even better feel on tip-in and is easier to keep in line through the exit. But i would say the17/18 SXF or the 19 CRF corners even better, i just didn't care for the super rigid feel of the honda and how easy that bike would get away from me if i got a little winded. And the SXF had vibration issues i just hated at times. But that's just my 2cents.

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I have to corner my 18' FC 350 smoother than my 17' YZ 450, whereas I can ride hard on the YZ and it will stand back up for me. Smoother is faster, I'm actually faster on the 350 lol.. but I can ride the 17' YZ so friggen hard, it's like a downhill mountain bike on steroids. It's so fun to just turn and stomp and have to lean into the front to keep it from wheeling and man it feels sooo fast..  I honestly have no trouble cornering it, and I just got rid of a 15' RMZ 450. That being said, My next bike will be a 2020 YZ450F. I believe they kept 95% of that stability with the newer model, but the new chassis allows for a quicker turn initiation and ability to change line without thinking. 

Edited by Freakazoid

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The 19 Yamaha is worlds better than the 17 and comparing the two is not even fair. With the 19 I can switch to the inside line whenever I want and on my 16 I had to commit to my line at the beginning of the turn with little to no chance of changing lines unless it was to go futher outside. Another way to describe it would be that no matter where I was looking the 16 would stay in it's line, where with the 19 if I look at the inside I'm automatically going there. No more skating on flat turn entrances or the vague front end feeling, just bite and predictable feedback from the front tire. Took me a while to adjust my riding technique to the newfound steering accuracy and ability to dive inside and or change lines. Not sure how much is attributed to the fork lugs/collars, stiffer valving, or the filled in mid-range power band. Either way the slight trade off for a tighter turning bike is worth it when Im getting amazing suspension, rock solid reliability, stability, and the ability to completely change the way the bike handles with a few clicks on my phone. I think you need to ride a 19 so you will better understand what you're deciding between because the 17 is not an example of what to expect.

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1 hour ago, Nymxracer said:

The 19 Yamaha is worlds better than the 17 and comparing the two is not even fair. With the 19 I can switch to the inside line whenever I want and on my 16 I had to commit to my line at the beginning of the turn with little to no chance of changing lines unless it was to go futher outside. Another way to describe it would be that no matter where I was looking the 16 would stay in it's line, where with the 19 if I look at the inside I'm automatically going there. No more skating on flat turn entrances or the vague front end feeling, just bite and predictable feedback from the front tire. Took me a while to adjust my riding technique to the newfound steering accuracy and ability to dive inside and or change lines. Not sure how much is attributed to the fork lugs/collars, stiffer valving, or the filled in mid-range power band. Either way the slight trade off for a tighter turning bike is worth it when Im getting amazing suspension, rock solid reliability, stability, and the ability to completely change the way the bike handles with a few clicks on my phone. I think you need to ride a 19 so you will better understand what you're deciding between because the 17 is not an example of what to expect.

I talked to Keefer about it, and he actully recommended the 17’ to me because I wanted it solely for rough tracks and desert. The 18 and 19 are too front weight bias for a sand bike for me. 

 

I have a bike that’s easier to turn in and change lines, with the 2018 Husqy FC,  and I dont like it as much. I had a suzuki, I didnt like it as much.. For some reason I prefer the old Kawi and Yami feel, and am afraid of buying the new 19’ YZ because I dont want anymore front weight bias whatsoever.

 

I am a big guy, and i think that has something to do with me not having any issues turning the 17’

Money wasn’t an issue, but I had bought so many new bikes lately that I didnt like stock, I had to make sure I was going a different route. Everyone hates on the 17’ yamaha, but its the best stock bike I have ever owned because its not too fromt weight bias. Different strokes for different folks. 

I am a solid intermediate on the Track, Advanced off road

Edited by Freakazoid

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I wasn't trying to bash your 17, I was just trying to answer the original question which was "does the 2019 yz450f finally corner good?" He also mentioned a hinged feeling with his buddies 17 and I wanted to make sure he knew that feeling is gone on the 19. 

 

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No I know.. I was getting all defensive about my 17' lol. For realz, idk why I like the 17' so much when so many people bash on it. I shouldn't say it's better than the newer bikes though, because it's not, even though it's better for me.

I was going to ride the 19' two weekends ago, but bailed because of the long drive and it being rained out. I should have just sucked it up so I could give a comparison.  

Edited by Freakazoid

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1 hour ago, Freakazoid said:

No I know.. I was getting all defensive about my 17' lol. For realz, idk why I like the 17' so much when so many people bash on it. I shouldn't say it's better than the newer bikes though, because it's not, even though it's better for me.

I was going to ride the 19' two weekends ago, but bailed because of the long drive and it being rained out. I should have just sucked it up so I could give a comparison.  

Unless you’re willing to buy one I don’t recommend you ride any new bike.

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