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Video: KTM'S CARB VS TPI (TRANSFER PORT INJECTION)

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1 hour ago, Dirt Rider 12345 said:

Would be nice to follow a thread without getting emails every few mins with this kind of bullshit 

You can disable the email notification. I did the first day.

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Just now, Clutch44 said:

You can disable the email notification. I did the first day.

I like getting some notifications on topics I'm interested in. Sucks that i have to disable for a thread when it breaks down into bickering over what color tutu someone wore. 

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1 hour ago, Boertmann84 said:

In stock form no, the injectors would need to flow more fuel and the stock mc3 computer isn’t very tunable. 

Good point, but I'm not worried about the ECU.....I'd use either JD or PowerCDI to add more fuel.

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50 minutes ago, Dirt Rider 12345 said:

I like getting some notifications on topics I'm interested in. Sucks that i have to disable for a thread when it breaks down into bickering over what color tutu someone wore. 

What are you adding to the discussion?  You're complaining about useless spamming of the thread....by uselessly spamming the thread.

@Boertmann84.....any idea on the injectors themselves?  I read a claim last year that the injector holes are supposedly too small for oil....but that could have been misinformation / conjecture / bs.

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1 hour ago, Boertmann84 said:

Shut the motor off for 5 seconds, doesn’t matter what gear your in or throttle position, you can do it while coasting then bump start.

I still dont understand this. Why cant it just have a barometic sensor that gives the ecu reading in real time and it automatically adjusts from there. Vehicles have been doing this since 1987.

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They are cheap and simple systems that are mainly as light and cheap as possible

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16 minutes ago, mog said:

They are cheap and simple systems that are mainly as light and cheap as possible

The Barometic sensor is about the size of a dime.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it already has one. I just don't understand why you have to do the "reset" procedure when you change altitudes. The ECU should sense atmospheric pressure in a millisecond and adjust the compensation values in real time.

 

Also the oil injection system is not simple like others have posted. An ecu controlling it, wiring, a pump, lines, and a oil injector. Worst of all NO feedback to the ecu on how much oil is actually running through the engine and NO failsafes. At least on my carbed bike I know that so long as my bike is running its getting oil, assuming i mixed some with the gas.

This was the main reason for not getting a TPI for me, other then that they're neat bikes.

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2 minutes ago, 240ZDAN said:

The Barometic sensor is about the size of a dime.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it already has one. I just don't understand why you have to do the "reset" procedure when you change altitudes. The ECU should sense atmospheric pressure in a millisecond and adjust the compensation values in real time.

 

Also the oil injection system is not simple like others have posted. An ecu controlling it, wiring, a pump, lines, and a oil injector. Worst of all NO feedback to the ecu on how much oil is actually running through the engine and NO failsafes. At least on my carbed bike I know that so long as my bike is running its getting oil, assuming i mixed some with the gas.

This was the main reason for not getting a TPI for me, other then that they're neat bikes.

Does the engine even cut off if you run out of oil but still have gas? 

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Just now, Dirt Rider 12345 said:

Does the engine even cut off if you run out of oil but still have gas? 

On the tpi? There is a warning light, but I am talking if you HAVE oil and the system isnt working or malfunctioning. No way for ecu to tell and she keeps on ticking away.

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Every time you want a failsafe it adds cost weight and complexity, each part is cheap enough but when you add a few it becomes a problem ,the tpi is already a lot heavier than a carb and I bet costs way more to make , the 4 stroke doesn't adjust unless you leave it ticking over for ages I seem to remember

 

 

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35 minutes ago, mog said:

They are cheap and simple systems that are mainly as light and cheap as possible

The ECU on the tpi was used in mid 2000 or so ducati monster motorcycles, it wasn’t made FOR the tpi. It’s a very simple design that can’t read the pressure in real time. The injector holes on the tpi are much larger than its 4 stroke counterpart. No issue flowing a little oil.

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Lets hope another major player steps in with their own system and pushes KTM to further update and refine this system. Yamaha maybe? 

When FI first came out on street bikes, some were bad some good. But it only took a few short years of competition between manufacturers before they were all good to very good.

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14 minutes ago, 240ZDAN said:

On the tpi? There is a warning light, but I am talking if you HAVE oil and the system isnt working or malfunctioning. No way for ecu to tell and she keeps on ticking away.

An in-line pressure sensor with a dummy light could theoretically be installed to detect a failed pump.  The instances of pump failure are low enough that I personally am not worried. I believe the very few oil pump failures we are seeing debuted again and again to prove the tpi sucks are more than likely improperly primed oil pumps that led to failure, not faulty pumps.

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3 hours ago, 240ZDAN said:

Also the oil injection system is not simple like others have posted. An ecu controlling it, wiring, a pump, lines, and a oil injector.

Worst of all NO feedback to the ecu on how much oil is actually running through the engine and NO failsafes.

Right.   No feedback and no interlocks / fail safe, hence overly simplistic.

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3 hours ago, Boertmann84 said:

 I believe the very few oil pump failures we are seeing debuted again and again to prove the tpi sucks are more than likely improperly primed oil pumps that led to failure, not faulty pumps.

Even with all the owners in the video and on the FB page stating it isn’t.

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3 hours ago, Boertmann84 said:

An in-line pressure sensor with a dummy light could theoretically be installed to detect a failed pump.  The instances of pump failure are low enough that I personally am not worried. I believe the very few oil pump failures we are seeing debuted again and again to prove the tpi sucks are more than likely improperly primed oil pumps that led to failure, not faulty pumps.

I feel like it's a cheap / bad design downstream of the oil pump.  Just a simple hose and no pressure sensor at the injection point.  

They could have gone with a steel braided hose like their brake lines, a small restriction orifice and pressure sensor.

The system shouldn't lose its prime so easily, and it needs a way to detect adequate pressure at the injection point.

Edited by redrider144

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I have 25 hours on my 2019 TE 300i. Compared to my 2017 TE 300 w/ mikuni, the TPI bike starts and idles much better, especially from cold. The extra 6 lbs is noticeable. Range is better, about 80 miles per tank. There is no dumping of raw fuel. Much less stalling on steep clutch-in downhills. Better very low speed tractoring. More linear powerband. No oil leaks. Very little exhaust smoke. The same or better max power. Doesn’t ever load up or need big revs to clean out. Power production is much more consistant every time you roll on the throttle. This makes it better for managing traction and launch in the slippery gnar. 6th gear wheelies are available with 13/52 gearing. I ride 330 miles before I added premix oil to the tank and I could of probably gone 400 total. Zero problems. Smoothest gas powered dirt bike ever. The 2019 Xplor suspension is better. The fueling is set on the lean side and no adjustment is provided. You need to get some heat into the motor at start up before it smooths out. You only need to shut off the bike and restart to recalibrate for altitude if you transport the bike in the truck to a different altitude. In sum, the bike runs great all the time and easily handles altitude and ambient air temperature changes. Just my real world experience. I expect at least 200 hrs out of this piston. This is the best dirt bike I have owned, and I have owned many. YMMV.

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7 hours ago, Boertmann84 said:

The ECU on the tpi was used in mid 2000 or so ducati monster motorcycles, it wasn’t made FOR the tpi. It’s a very simple design that can’t read the pressure in real time. The injector holes on the tpi are much larger than its 4 stroke counterpart. No issue flowing a little oil.

Im not sure what you're implying here. Are you taking about running premix in your TPI and ditching the oil injection? Have you forgotten about the crank bearings?

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