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Video: KTM'S CARB VS TPI (TRANSFER PORT INJECTION)

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40 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Whatever..

“2 strokes are notoriously difficult to fuel inject...4 strokes are relatively easy to do”   Really???  You put fuel injection on 2 and 4 strokes???? 

. Like I said earlier I didn’t ride one yet . I’m just hanging out and learning and watching in threads and magazines  and watching friends bikes locally . In my case I have zero problems with carbs . I like them but I like to see new bikes and see what’s new and how everything works. For the guys riding different elevations I see fuel injection ought to be great.. tuning wise. 

As far as Beta suspension? Meh. It’s like KTM and every bike. You setup the suspension and go. Ive had no problems at all with my 3 Betas. They work great and I can upgrade to higher level suspension but haven’t yet. For my 300 rr at least . My other older bike forks work fine and not changing those forks. Maybe this year or next I might go endurospec cartridges. But that’s something else. 

It’s still just seeing how tpi works and if there are mods and tuning that might apply. You like your bike and it’s working good right? Well that’s good. 

Im just watching... and I know it’s coming for Beta and all euro bikes. It’s adapting to law. Is it better than a carb? Whatever.. we will see. 

The thing about Hawaii is you don't really need fi. The temperature only fluctuates within 10° year round. Most of our riding was between sea level and 3000'. Every once in a while we'd shoot up near the top of Haleakala around 9000' and our bikes would run like shit, but it was only for the half hour we were up there. That being said, I found the yzs to be jetted perfectly out of the box and never needed any tuning. The ktms were a little more finicky especially on the humid Kona wind days. But now I live in the Sierras and it can be a 50° change from one day to the next. Lectrons work pretty good, but the idea of a zero problem fi sounds sexy!

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6 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

What turns me off is needing a new ECU to properly tune it, and that the oil injection has zero feedback.   Well, I shouldn't say zero.  When the piston seizes in the cylinder from lack of oil, that's the current feedback mechanism.

This is a legitimate gripe, and I agree with you. The pumps just aren’t failing at a rate for me to be concerned. Power cdi is producing an ecu that has all these features and failsafes however.

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1 minute ago, Clutch44 said:

The thing about Hawaii is you don't really need fi. The temperature only fluctuates within 10° year round. Most of our riding was between sea level and 3000'. Every once in a while we'd shoot up near the top of Haleakala around 9000' and our bikes would run like shit, but it was only for the half hour we were up there. That being said, I found the yzs to be jetted perfectly out of the box and never needed any tuning. The ktms were a little more finicky especially on the humid Kona wind days. But now I live in the Sierras and it can be a 50° change from one day to the next. Lectrons work pretty good, but the idea of a zero problem fi sounds sexy!

Oh I agree that it’s different for different people and for different bikes for that matter in different environments. That’s not on that vid though.  .. and it’s really the real world on how it plays out in reliability over a good period of time. Hey.. just watching ans seeing what’s up. We all know it’s coming for all the brands.

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2 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Oh I agree that it’s different for different people and for different bikes for that matter in different environments. That’s not on that vid though.  .. and it’s really the real world on how it plays out in reliability over a good period of time. Hey.. just watching ans seeing what’s up. We all know it’s coming for all the brands.

That's why, like you, I'm just sitting back and waiting until they sort it out. (Or should I say, the people that bought them sort it out for ktm like usual)

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8 minutes ago, Boertmann84 said:

This is a legitimate gripe, and I agree with you. The pumps just aren’t failing at a rate for me to be concerned. Power cdi is producing an ecu that has all these features and failsafes however.

Yeah Fabio's PowerCDI M2 and the CDI multispark would be must haves, for me.  

I'd also like an XC version....I want linkage rear and AER forks.

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13 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Sheeez that’s a pretty &%$#@!ed up vid!!! Holy shit!!!! Thanks for sharing... warning ⚠️ whatever. To me it seems ktm and Husky are on the highest point right now  with the carbed 17 and 18 ‘    300 counterbalancer and the finally fixed estart.  The suspension doesn’t matter to me. It’s setup and go with the better modded for ones type of riding and weight. I know some are all crazy about kyb.. whatever. To me for right now stick to the carb and watch the tpi guys. Just wait and watch and see what needs to be done.

I’m excited to see how the new TM performs, they have the injectors in the intake which theoretically will cause problems, I believe in the superiority of transfer port injection like uniflow, we will see

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1 minute ago, redrider144 said:

Yeah Fabio's PowerCDI M2 and the CDI multispark would be must haves, for me.  

I'd also like an XC version....I want linkage rear and AER forks.

I agree, I would have definitely preferred linkage and aer. The pds is super finicky to set up 

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35 minutes ago, Boertmann84 said:

I’m excited to see how the new TM performs, they have the injectors in the intake which theoretically will cause problems, I believe in the superiority of transfer port injection like uniflow, we will see

I guess that’s another bike I have to read up on. .. although TM has too few numbers produced to be of interest to buy for me. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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49 minutes ago, Clutch44 said:

That's why, like you, I'm just sitting back and waiting until they sort it out. (Or should I say, the people that bought them sort it out for ktm like usual)

Exactly!!! Sort of window shopping.

Plus what’s wrong with any bikes out now??? Nothing.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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54 minutes ago, Boertmann84 said:

I’m excited to see how the new TM performs, they have the injectors in the intake which theoretically will cause problems, I believe in the superiority of transfer port injection like uniflow, we will see

Looks like TPI to me:

s1600_IMG_7477.jpg

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On 1/17/2019 at 10:15 AM, zig06 said:

+1, would also like to add that the oil is injected just in front of the throttle body plate, the barbed fitting on the back of the cylinder is for the MAP sensor.

Thank you! I was told by the dealer that that was the oil injection point, but later I noticed the clear line to the TB with red oil in it. Good to know.

 

Torch

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1 hour ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

I guess that’s another bike I have to read up on. .. although TM has too few numbers produced to be of interest to buy for me. 

Ya and you'll need deep pockets too. They aiant cheap.

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6 minutes ago, I'm trying said:

Ya and you'll need deep pockets too. They aiant cheap.

I don’t know.. around here ktm is the most expensive. .. next it’s husky then all the rest come after that. I think TM is trying to break through like Sherco. Sherco was the most expensive before and has dropped prices. .. at least around here. Prices fluctuate region by region.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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The TPI technology is neither new nor ground-breaking! TPI and DI have been used for a number of  years with great success in the two stroke outboards, snowmobiles, scooters, etc. They are proven to drastically reduce emissions, oil consumption, the need for jetting changes and increased fuel economy especially for the DI versions. KTM/Husky may or may not be having some teething problems with theirs but the Debbie Downers will be sure everyone knows about them big or small. They are necessary for the two strokes to survive and it won't be long before all the two stroke manufacturers are forced to follow suit.

BRP/Rotax currently makes DI engines in 600 and 850 twins. The 600 makes about 120 hp at around 8k rpm and gets better fuel economy than a comparable 4t. Chop it in half and you get a lightweight 60 hp 300 single! BRP currently makes 4t motorcycle engines and I am sure they would have no trouble transferring their DI expertise to 2t motorcycle engines. 

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25 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

I don’t know.. around here ktm is the most expensive. .. next it’s husky then all the rest come after that. I think TM is trying to break through like Sherco. Sherco was the most expensive before and has dropped prices. .. at least around here. Prices fluctuate region by region.

Boerrmann84 posted a price list for canada and well that is well above average. TM has been around awhile now and sells top shelf equipment. For the serious rider. The en300 fi 2S they offer is about 1500 more than a tpi 300 here. I dont think they're trying to break through like you said of sherco. They build high end bikes and you have to pay for that.

Edit : just checked on the KTM prices and I was wrong. There's a 1400 difference and a 300 difference to the six days. Still pricey though. Ouch!

 

Edited by I'm trying
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19 minutes ago, I'm trying said:

Boerrmann84 posted a price list for canada and well that is well above average. TM has been around awhile now and sells top shelf equipment. For the serious rider. The en300 fi 2S they offer is about 1500 more than a tpi 300 here. I dont think they're trying to break through like you said of sherco. They build high end bikes and you have to pay for that.

Edit : just checked on the KTM prices and I was wrong. There's a 1400 difference and a 300 difference to the six days. Still pricey though. Ouch!

 

There’s one TM dealership and no one seems to be buying. The same bike all tricked out and new and the price is pretty cheap has been on Craigslist a long time. Beautiful bike.  Im thinking it’s price is close to cost. Few bites. This year ought to be better with estart etc. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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2 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

There’s one TM dealership and no one seems to be buying. The same bike all tricked out and new and the price is pretty cheap has been on Craigslist a long time. Beautiful bike.  Im thinking it’s price is close to cost. Few bites. This year ought to be better with estart etc. 

I looked hard at TM since I had a line on a discount for a new one, but wasn't much cheaper than a KTM, utlimatly decided I wasn't a good enough rider to take advantage of the tricked-out TM vs the "basic bitch" KTM to make up for lack of parts and aftermarket support 

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1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

Looks like TPI to me:

s1600_IMG_7477.jpg

Cool, the TM patents I looked at were an intake injection arrangement 

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3 minutes ago, Boertmann84 said:

Cool, the TM patents I looked at were an intake injection arrangement 

Actually, the one I was looking was the new beta injection system

3F5F03F1-864C-4038-886E-0EEF79003BD0.png

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The new mikini has 2 flaws ,JD jetting has all the info

An o ring and gasket or something. Not a huge deal when one knows about it right? Simple and straight forward to fix imo. And also part of what should be a regular schedule maintenance routine.

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