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Southern Oregon BLM closure of land to shooting.

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I'm posting this here because off-road vehicles will be next. CA residents would know this painfully well. 

Applegate Enviro-marxist group is lobbying BLM to close down Anderson butte and Wagner butte areas above Talent, Phoenix, and Jacksonville to recreational shooting.
This is their site:
https://applegateneighborhood.network/anderson-butte-safety-project/

Screenshot of their post:
https://imgur.com/ekzBLKG

Individuals behind it:
https://i.imgur.com/1BCrwTE.png

Comment Now: Public Comments will be accepted until Feb 1, 2019

Mail: BLM-Ashland Field Office
Attn: Kristi Mastrofini
3040 Biddle Road
Medford, Oregon 97504

Email:
BLM_OR_MD_Mail@blm.gov
RE: Anderson Butte Safety Project

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I’m a big supporter of gun rights. That said, everywhere I go I see a total lack of rules being followed and any effort whatsoever to clean up gun practice debris. 

Gun users have made themselves stand out in a negative way. 

I’m sure there are many great organizations of shooters but they haven’t done much to clean up the messes of the others. Or in keeping the rogues from not following some very simple rules. 

Ive ridden up to shooters who literally are shooting, set up tables directly on walking/riding trails. 

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OHV trails closed in the national forests here in South Carolina since the shutdown. We're using state forests for riding and shooting.

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2 hours ago, TigerTanker said:

I’m a big supporter of gun rights. That said, everywhere I go I see a total lack of rules being followed and any effort whatsoever to clean up gun practice debris. 

Gun users have made themselves stand out in a negative way. 

I’m sure there are many great organizations of shooters but they haven’t done much to clean up the messes of the others. Or in keeping the rogues from not following some very simple rules. 

Ive ridden up to shooters who literally are shooting, set up tables directly on walking/riding trails. 

Well, to be fair, you could say the same about motorcycle riders. Every group has their &%$#@!. 

But I'd guess that a vast majority of the trash you see at shooting sites isn't from the shooters, it's just illegal dumping. Every group of shooters I've talked to or shot with ends up hauling out more trash than they came in with.

The way I see it, we're all on the same team: shooters, 4x4'ers, motorcyclists, SXSs, MTB, etc. We're all trying to maintain/expand access to our public land, and fighting against those that want it closed down to everything except bird watching or whatever.

Edited by jrodicus100
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1 minute ago, jrodicus100 said:

Well, to be fair, you could say the same about motorcycle riders. Every group has their &%$#@!. 

But I'd guess that a vast majority of the trash you see at shooting sites isn't from the shooters, it's just illegal dumping. Every group of shooters I've talked to or shot with ends up hauling out more trash than they came in with.

Well, I ride all across Western N America. The ORV lots are usually squeaky clean. The trails rarely have as much as a gum wrapper on them. 

But, if I go to an area that has gravel pits and allows shooting, I typically find;

  • shot up bottles
  • destroyed tvs
  • destroyed appliances
  • plastic shotgun casings by the hundreds+
  • cans, household garbage

This stuff accumulates over the years and looks like ASS. If the shooting community doesn't wanna acknowledge that, or not bother cleaning it up, they shouldn't be surprised when nobody stands up to support their user groups privilege of the forests. 

And worse yet, there are typically shooters that step off the typical shooting area and start shooting in ways that violate any and all rules. Shooting downhill into valleys, shooting on trails, shooting towards trails. Recently a group of us two days in a row encountered a group that had a shooting gallery complete with table in the MIDDLE of the trails over at Hurd rd at Tahuya. Unbelievable kind of  stupid at work by that kind of person. And what, you going to argue with someone with guns and ammo?

At Cap Forest, there was a pit that was on the N Rim trail. Shooters were constantly there despite signs. The trail goes directly behind where those folks were shooting! The signs to not shoot would routinely get pulled down. Finally, they put a video camera up because the dumb asses just didn't get it. 

Anyways, that's all I got to say on that matter. I'm hoping some folks that are players in the shooting community around here see this and ponder this perception. Wouldn't really be that hard for that user group to police itself and organize garbage clean up days for known shooting areas. 

 

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I too have had to stop on the trails at tahuya and shout " hold your fire" several times lately due to random shooters shooting directly out into open areas that trails are located.

 

Joe

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19 minutes ago, trailmeisterjoe said:

I too have had to stop on the trails at tahuya and shout " hold your fire" several times lately due to random shooters shooting directly out into open areas that trails are located.

 

Joe

Not a problem here. The same "hiking" group shut down two off-road trails due to noise, so one doesn't have to worry about running into other people on the trail.

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I hear it from both sides, shooters complain about ORV riders in Cap Forest and Ta-hoo-ya who will ride in, around and behind the backstop of a known range.
They park their vehicles and off load on the range, especially in the summer when it gets crowded.

Shooters don't haul out TV's or appliances or garbage to shoot at.
That's dumped by the local citizens.
The shooters will use all of that as targets.

The Fuds are the ones who complain about the black rifle guys, but yet they are the ones who leave the shotgun shell hulls all over the place.
Steel cases will rust and corrode in a few years and someone will always pick up the brass (unless it's .22 or it uses military Berdan primers).

Most shooters pick-up after themselves (most won't pick up garbage - I don't blame them, who wants to mess with poo diapers and meth trash).

The DNR is trying to come up with a plan that will include ORV/Horses/Hikers/Shooters.
I have gone to the meetings that the DNR held.



 
 

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And as a FYI - This is from a WA gun based forum - (This is not me who made this post where it was found.)

"The DNR is closing down the Shoo Fly Pit shooting area on Hurd Road in the Tahuya Forest on February 1, 2019 so the area around it can be logged.
I checked out the pit one time last year and decided that a 50 yard wide pit with 5 foot tall berms was not my cup of tea." 
I am waiting for the DNR to establish a nicer place to shoot, something with tall impact berms and a flat spot for a shooting mat 200 yards distance like they suggested would happen back in 2016 at one of their meetings.
I got a reply today from the DNR about progress made on a new place and it seems that they have made no progress at all other than to mention that they might choose a place on Tahuya Blacksmith Road or a site at the junction of Belfair Tahuya Road and Hurd Road. "

And then there was this -

"What I've heard lately (on wa_guns Reddit) is that a lot of new residents are also complaining more about the noise from shooters, and it's putting the future of the DNR range in doubt."

Guess what's next if they are complaining about the sound of shooting...

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I'm pro gun rights and I agree with tiger. DNR has started to close some of the target pits at CF. The first was the one on North Rim trail that tiger mentioned.  I was always concerned when riding that section of trail if shooting was active because there just was not enough protection of the trail from the shooting area.  I'm sure the trash issue is caused by locals as I see it at other places in CF that have road access. Years ago I worked for a land manager and the biggest problem was locals dumping trash, and that was before dumps starting charging money. 

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As a CF "frequent flyer" rider & "shooter"...the gravel stockpile along the North Rim Trail is simply a bad idea for riders & lead slingers alike. The relatively short shooting distance means bullets are still rising. Since the shooting direction is aiming uphill...errant rounds can travel almost to the timberline directly at the atv trail. Last year alone...signs have been installed, & trash picked up. Soon after, local goons run down the signs, toss bottles & cans all over, and spray bullets every which way. This cycle has been repeated several times. As a rider, I simply bypass this short section by road. As a shooter, it simply attracts too much attention, aside from danger to other trail users. I especially like the signs that warn of camers use...riddled with bullet holes. If the DNR removed the gravel stockpile(it hasn't been touched for years), allowed the Tacoma Trail Cruisers(the primary club users) the cut back the brush above it, I believe that attraction of that particular spot would vanish.

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Well this ties right in with my last rant I just made on the garbage thread.  Looks like plenty of folks are in denial. The first thing we need to learn to accept is that we are with the morons! Your a fool if you think the opposition sees two kinds of riders just because that's the way we see ourselves.  

I can honestly say that I never ride unarmed ever. I have a custom built rig specifically for riding my dirt bike.

Last weekend my nephew and I stopped at the end of the paved two lane road to offload. 100 yards up the road there are 4 guys shooting across the main road! 10 cars went by in the time we unloaded. I told my nephew if I had service I would dial 911. He said if there is a bar of service emergency calls get priority and will bump an in process call. He is 13 so he knows these things. I dialed it and it went through with some drops and them calling me back.

At the same place years ago somebody took an entire houses windows from a remodel out there and shot them up. You could have filled an entire pickup bed with glass shards.

That is who the opposition thinks we are.

Sportbike dudes ( I'm one of those harley dudes) have a name for morons on sportbikes, a squid. Its hard to describe but you know one when you see one because they are morons. They are not real riders they are squids! When I first got back into dirt bikes, I seen a shirtless moron on a quad screaming through the staging area  full of kids repeatedly. Miles of trails and this dipshit is gonna rip it up in the staging area all day. That's when I realized there are squids in the dirt too!

Its a complex problem. You can't just put up no morons allowed signs. Because morons don't know their morons! Because their morons!

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WA legislature is working on the shooting issue on DNR land, specifully Capitol Forest. Here is a clip and paste:
 

Quote

 

Please consider:

 

SB-5099

"AN ACT Relating to establishing recreational target shooting areas on public lands; adding a new section to chapter 79.10 RCW; and creating a new section."

 

Senate bill SB-5099 is a bill being introduced that would require Department of Natural Resources to establish and manage designated target practice shooting areas on DNR lands, including a 2019 deadline for completion of proposed areas in Mason and Skagit counties. 

 

This bill would insure the opportunity for target shooters to recreate on DNR lands, and would also insure that the multitude of other DNR lands' recreational users have their rights to safe access and practice of their recreational pursuits on DNR lands provided as well. 

 

For anyone who has spent time in Capitol Forest, you will know someone who has or you yourself will have had or witnessed a close encounter with errant bullets from target shooters shooting in unsafe areas close to, on or at trails, roads, open forest or facilities occupied by other recreational users or DNR foresters. The monumental task of staying on top the current dispersed target practice shooting policy and practice has proven over the years to be a task too large for DNR to manage effectively. 

 

Earlier this month I was driving out spur road C-7100 and came upon a group of young guys drinking beers and shooting directly across the Noschka Valley towards C-8200 road and the Twin Peaks Trail. The incident was reported to DNR. This has been an issue for many, many years in Capitol Forest with some minor but not complete improvements and an ongoing "working on it" approach to a real policy. Minute 4:42 of The FOCF Movie circa 2007 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoVN-asdlA0 shows young Jim Graham, David Snyder and Matthieu Denuelle engaging in an interview about this very same issue, over a decade ago. I cannot speak for them, so you would need to talk directly to David, Matthieu and the current FOCF board to get their positions on this issue. 

 

I support SB-5099, and have left comments on the bill stating so. I would like to attend the public hearing today but will be out of town. I hope some of you can make time to attend the public hearing, and hopefully all of you can take just the few minutes to comment on the bill. 

 

Please read the bill here: 

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bills/Senate Bills/5099.pdf

 

Then please select the "Comment on this bill" link on the middle right side of this page and comment:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?billnumber=5099&year=2019&initiative=False

 

If you are fortunate enough to have time today to attend and provide comment during the public hearing of the bill, it is scheduled for Thursday 01/24/19 1:30 PM in the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources & Parks. 


 

 

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I haven't run across any shooters a cap forest yet. I stage out of Waddell Creek when I go there. There is a big pit that a lot of people use basically across the street from the Waddell camp ground and I'm pretty sure it's a designated shooting area considering all of the rigs I see there. I have run across a few bow hunters there though.

I was at Tahuya about a month ago and came off the noble trail to hit the connector trail and there was a dude with his kid and an AR15 on the spur road off of the plantation road. Right in the middle of the clearing and no backstop! I mentioned to him that he was surrounded by trails as I rode by.

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20 hours ago, Chuck. said:

WA legislature is working on the shooting issue on DNR land, specifully Capitol Forest. Here is a clip and paste:
 

 

Wow, how interesting, and timely for that matter! Everyone should read that. 

The shooters had incredible freedoms at Capitol Forest, and I'm assuming other DNR lands. The list of rules was very, very short and reasonable. If I recall, it was about 5 rules. And those rules were way too much for many of these shooters, and they perilously decided to ignore those rules. So, now they will get to experience what it's like to have confined, regulated and limited recreational facilities.

 

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On 1/23/2019 at 9:30 PM, rustyrodknocker said:

Well this ties right in with my last rant I just made on the garbage thread.  Looks like plenty of folks are in denial. The first thing we need to learn to accept is that we are with the morons! Your a fool if you think the opposition sees two kinds of riders just because that's the way we see ourselves.  

I can honestly say that I never ride unarmed ever. I have a custom built rig specifically for riding my dirt bike.

Last weekend my nephew and I stopped at the end of the paved two lane road to offload. 100 yards up the road there are 4 guys shooting across the main road! 10 cars went by in the time we unloaded. I told my nephew if I had service I would dial 911. He said if there is a bar of service emergency calls get priority and will bump an in process call. He is 13 so he knows these things. I dialed it and it went through with some drops and them calling me back.

At the same place years ago somebody took an entire houses windows from a remodel out there and shot them up. You could have filled an entire pickup bed with glass shards.

That is who the opposition thinks we are.

Sportbike dudes ( I'm one of those harley dudes) have a name for morons on sportbikes, a squid. Its hard to describe but you know one when you see one because they are morons. They are not real riders they are squids! When I first got back into dirt bikes, I seen a shirtless moron on a quad screaming through the staging area  full of kids repeatedly. Miles of trails and this dipshit is gonna rip it up in the staging area all day. That's when I realized there are squids in the dirt too!

Its a complex problem. You can't just put up no morons allowed signs. Because morons don't know their morons! Because their morons!

The DNR knows the difference between user groups. They in no way associate dirt bike riders with quads. 

I've encountered a ton of DNR and USFS folks in the NW. They seem to have zero problems with dirt bike riders. 

Another group that leaves no trace are the equestrians. It dawned on me that the number of bad experiences with them, or seeing their trash, horse crap is extremely limited, confined in my experience to only a few ladies that are a bit naggier than their nags. 

Hikers can be seriously obnoxious, especially the city folk young folks that go into the woods once a year. But that user group is 10-50x larger than our group. So, with them comes trash, dogs, and dog poop....lots of dog poop....especially love it when they put it in the plastic bag and then leave the bag in the middle of the trail. Seriously, wtf does that?

Ok, enough ranting for me today, I've got trail work to do, because they don't build themselves.....and the more trails there are, the less fighting over them there is. 

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14 hours ago, TigerTanker said:

Another group that leaves no trace are the equestrians. 

Horses tear up the trails worse than a dirtbike.

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Here, shooting in public lands...saw this today

wonder if the people that do this ever realize it undermines their recreation and constitutional rights, along with denigrating the reputations of all shooters?

 

C67046F8-1D70-4357-A486-DE477ABE169E.jpeg

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