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jmgatx

2019 Sachs poor quality already

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After 2 blissful weeks mountain biking and surfing in Ecuador (i apologize now for rants, grammar, etc... sleep deprived) I come home today to my suspension tuner/friend telling me that my anodizing inside the supposedly improved 19 forks is wearing off already. Thanks Rob for waiting till after my vacation was over....

My 16 250 race cc forks had the same issue and eventually led to wearing inside and need for hard anodizing at 70 hours which was done by Steve at Plus One. I almost wrote off Beta all together because of it, but loved everything else about them so much so that I decided to wait and see if they listened/cared/stood behind their products. Unfortunately at the time Beta USA didn't respond to my multiple attempts at contacting them. And they still haven't.

So here we are 3 years later, a new $10k dollar bike with shit quality anodizing. ( admittedly my tuner who works predominantly on WP said the sachs machining and quality otherwise looked much better than new WP products). 

The last 2 photos are pictures of the cartridges. Something else he discovered was an extra clip just sliding up and down on it. Said fortunately it didn't cause any harm but definitely could have. Uh, thanks Beta for the extra parts?

Unfortunately Im not tech savvy and cant upload the video of Rob pouring out the fork fluid after MAYBE 10 hours of riding. It looks like oil from a fork with about a 100 hours on it. Black, thick and with metallic specks. I've only had the bike a few months and since I still ride my 250 I have about 10 hours on it tops. 

I'm really rooting for Beta to step up and have a response and resolution to this issue. 

So to those perspective new Beta buyers out there, you might want to wait and see what happens to these " new and improved" forks.

I respect all of y'alls opinions and definitely your experience, so please any insight is appreciated.

 

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1 hour ago, Raging Petunia said:

Definitely sucks, but it's not breaking news. Have em anodized and ride. 

Beta claimed 2019 was an improvement in durability. This seems even worse than before.  Beta should be footing the bill especially well within warranty. I'm happy if they want to just send me an anodized set so not to inconvenience my time as well! It's strange we just accept continued poor quality as our issue and not theirs.

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I may add also that heating the lower part of the uppers, help avoiding anodizing damage and facilitates fork splitting, especially on those Sachs that are so prone to this. 

And yes, No I don't have to heat them on WPs or other brands.... 

PS: same wear marks on my 2017 gold forks when I split them from new to install the DS cartridges (without heating them up). At the end, I had them done by Steve.... 

IMG_20190108_131559.jpg

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1 hour ago, Navaho6 said:

I was about to buy a new Beta tomorrow. After seeing this, I may not. 

Is this happening on the open chamber forks too ?  

What is rubbing on the surface to cause this?

The anodizing of the aluminum tubes is wearing off by friction caused by the bushings.

Apparently the quality/hardness of the anodizing is the issue.

It's easy to fix. Just throw money at it.

 

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I was about to buy a new Beta tomorrow. After seeing this, I may not. 
Is this happening on the open chamber forks too ?  
What is rubbing on the surface to cause this?
Not sure about OC. I will say I do prefer overall package of Betas over all other brands at the moment. Sherco may be in the running. My 17 KTM took a lot of money to get it where I wanted it, and I have friends with the same bike that buy new forks to replace the aer. So like raging petunia said, I could just anodize them and be done. I'm not ready to let Beta off the hook that fast though.
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Same old shit.  Its time for Beta to get with the KYB program and solve the problem once and for all. 

As has been discussed before its likely multiple factors causing this.  A good T3 hardcoat fixes it but may not be the root of the issue.  No other production forks are hardcoated, none.  Why does a KYB in Beta clamps last many hours?  Why do some Sachs do better than others?  Why was I able to get 100 hrs + from a set of Zoke 48s on a friend's GG with some land clean up?   Tolerances are causing them to bump into limitations they don't really understand, coating is just part of it.

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10 minutes ago, GP said:

Same old shit.  Its time for Beta to get with the KYB program and solve the problem once and for all. 

As has been discussed before its likely multiple factors causing this.  A good T3 hardcoat fixes it but may not be the root of the issue.  No other production forks are hardcoated, none.  Why does a KYB in Beta clamps last many hours?  Why do some Sachs do better than others?  Why was I able to get 100 hrs + from a set of Zoke 48s on a friend's GG with some land clean up?   Tolerances are causing them to bump into limitations they don't really understand, coating is just part of it.

I agree with GP on this.  I love my Beta, but I may switch to Sherco with factory KYBs because of this issue.  I am glad I did the KYB conversion in my Beta, but it was a pain in the ass. 

You shouldn't drop $10K on a bike and have to fix the forks.

Edited by jpbova
sp
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I'd print the cash for a 200RR with KYBs!  Not so bummed now about missing out.   What I have now is looking pretty good.

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54 minutes ago, Navaho6 said:

I did the same with a '17 KTM.  In the end, I wasted a bunch of money.  The handling was poor, even with KYB conversion.  

I expect higher quality for a $10,000 bike.  How much does the anodizing cost?

Less than KTM would charge you for a pit shirt and set of RedBull (tm) graphics ?

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Actually the scuff in that pic is not too unusual in any fork, although worse in this case.  Its the point of minimum overlap / max play where the bushing comes to rest at top out.  Its not where the upper bushing is pressed in. That alone will not be the source of black oil.  Degreasing the ID of the uppers should reveal the real wear in the area of the clamps.

Edited by GP
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8 minutes ago, GP said:

Actually the scuff in that pic is not too unusual in any fork, although worse in this case.  Its the point of minimum overlap / max play where the bushing comes to rest at top out.  Its not where the upper bushing is pressed in. That alone will not be the source of black oil.  Degreasing the ID of the uppers should reveal the real wear in the area of the clamps.

My tuner said he initially thought the springs were black until he put them in a wash and they came out silver. Thats how black the oil was.

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The only thing you can really do is have them re coated properly.   It will stand up to any other variable causing excess force/friction on the surfaces.  Don't wait or fouled oil migration can take out the cartridge walls as well.   For sure contact motoxgiant, as he has worked with a plater on the correct internal tube fixturing, its not just tossed in a tank like other places. 

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My tuner said he initially thought the springs were black until he put them in a wash and they came out silver. Thats how black the oil was.
The oil was black in your new forks or are you talking about your old set of race forks?

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8 minutes ago, jpbova said:
17 minutes ago, jmgatx said:
My tuner said he initially thought the springs were black until he put them in a wash and they came out silver. Thats how black the oil was.

The oil was black in your new forks or are you talking about your old set of race forks?

19 cc forks. My old forks were black at 20hrs when Chad at TC serviced them initially. 

Local dealer I bought the bike from is on the case now. He's a good dude so I'm hoping he can help. 

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19 cc forks. My old forks were black at 20hrs when Chad at TC serviced them initially. 
Local dealer I bought the bike from is on the case now. He's a good dude so I'm hoping he can help. 
You don't have 10 hours on those new forks. How is it already black?
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