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jmgatx

2019 Sachs poor quality already

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1 minute ago, jmgatx said:

Not under 10 hours. And if that's the case Beta should have that in its byob...

'Want quality functioning forks you won't need to send out and serviced every 10 hours? Buy kyb, another brand or overpriced ohlins'

Sell your bike.

If you didn't align your forks, who's fault is this?

You could have bought a KTM and be looking at a $1,200 starter job right now. You knew going in that the Sachs forks can be sketchy, just like your '16.

Again, these are competition level bikes. Maybe the YZ250X would have been a better choice. Yamaha is renowned for their build quality. if you can handle the 5 speed tranny and kick only, the price tag is the same and it comes with KYB suspension.

There is always Sherco, TM, etc. :excuseme:

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4 minutes ago, Sideways91 said:

As an A enduro rider, the stock 18 CCs feel amazing, although under sprung for my fat ass. There's not much if anything I would change on the stock suspension.

A year and a half on the 390 and ride A vet class when racing enduro and with proper springs and frequently servicing my fork oil, I was pretty darn satisfied. Was just about to get a little tweaking on my suspension before picking up the new 300rr last week. After break in I'll see how stock valving is working. 

 

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There are local companies that offer all those services too.

https://www.konflictmotorsports.com/

 

Konflict doesn’t work on Sachs, or at least a year ago he didn’t. I’ve used Alex in the past and he is great. When getting my Sachs worked on I inquired with him initially and he said he didn’t have much experience with them and that I’d be better off going with a dedicated Sachs tuner. I appreciated his honesty.

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14 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Sell your bike.

If you didn't align your forks, who's fault is this?

You could have bought a KTM and be looking at a $1,200 starter job right now. You knew going in that the Sachs forks can be sketchy, just like your '16.

Again, these are competition level bikes. Maybe the YZ250X would have been a better choice. Yamaha is renowned for their build quality. if you can handle the 5 speed tranny and kick only, the price tag is the same and it comes with KYB suspension.

There is always Sherco, TM, etc. :excuseme:

Not sure why you assume my forks weren't aligned? I actually loosen, align and retorque my forks regularly, especially after a hard day of riding. I also use MP tool after to check since i own it and only reason i said it was pointless is bc my normal method seems to be working just as well.

As far as the advice of selling my bike....

Maybe you missed the part about me still preferring the other qualities of Beta over all other brands.

Yes I've owned multiple ktms. Yes they've all required suspension work due to PREFERENCES not premature wear. 

Still boggles my mind how people are so willing to give up and just accept shit quality. 

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54 minutes ago, Navaho6 said:

I talked to a couple of Sachs tuners this morning about this issue.  They see it often, and it is a problem.

I was planning on getting a Beta this week.  The cost to fix this and to correct the poor performance of the stock suspension is about $2,000 minimum.   Considering the negligible resale value of a modified suspension, I am leaning towards the Ohlins forks and shock.  It's expensive ($3,500) but I can put the stock suspension back on the bike when I sale it and keep the Ohlins for my next bike or auction them on ebay.

Yes it is a problem but the price is crazy.  Nowhere near that.  With Ohlins you open up a new can of worms with service costs and knowledge base.  I've had older OC Ohlins on another bike, they too were looked at as the pinnacle of their time but were a bitch to service and with stock valving were worse than my WPs.

As far as the MP tool IMO its great, one of the best investments you can make.  It doesn't lie, if you use it correctly the fork is aligned, period.

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57 minutes ago, NW_drZ said:

Konflict doesn’t work on Sachs, or at least a year ago he didn’t. I’ve used Alex in the past and he is great.

Good to know, thanks.

I wonder if they would still be a viable option for coating?

I'll have to check. 👍

EDIT: Won't matter; end of the month they're moving to Austin, Texas. No longer local.

HELLO STEVE!!!!!! 🤣

Edited by Beta300recat
Won't matter; end of the month they're moving to Austin, Texas. No longer local. HELLO STEVE!!!!!! :lol:
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1 hour ago, jmgatx said:

 And yes i bought the MP tool. Its a pretty piece of anodized steel ornamentotherwise useless. Although the anodizing is probably better than the Sachs. 

 

24 minutes ago, jmgatx said:

1) Not sure why you assume my forks weren't aligned?

2)Still boggles my mind how people are so willing to give up and just accept shit quality. 

1) Dunno, just a brash assumption and clearly not based on anything you said.

2) Accept reality. Fix it or sell it.

It's not about the nail suspension, is it?

 

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4 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Good to know, thanks.

I wonder if they would still be a viable option for coating?

I'll have to check. 👍

Only go to Steve for anodizing.  You WILL find cheaper options, and there IS a reason.  To properly strip and reanodize the inner surfaces of the tube requires a special fixture with an electrode running the length of the tube.  This tooling and setup is not free.  You may get quotes elsewhere a lot cheaper, but the tube is just tossed in a tank and there is almost no current density near the center areas of the inner tube.  It would be like trying spray paint the center with an even coat from the ends, not going to happen.

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1 minute ago, GP said:

Only go to Steve for anodizing.  You WILL find cheaper options, and there IS a reason.  To properly strip and reanodize the inner surfaces of the tube requires a special fixture with an electrode running the length of the tube.  This tooling and setup is not free.  You may get quotes elsewhere a lot cheaper, but the tube is just tossed in a tank and there is almost no current density near the center areas of the inner tube.  It would be like trying spray paint the center with an even coat from the ends, not going to happen.

Not shopping for price, but thank you for the information. I would definitely put the quiz on them about the full length anode through the tube, and I think your spray paint analogy is excellent. 👍

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1 hour ago, firffighter said:

The vast majority of Beta owners are extremely satisfied with the suspension either stock or properly tuned and aren't experiencing some vast catastrophic failure. It's just forum fodder. 

I know I am!

Super satisfied with the mill, the chassis, the electrical, everything! Looks are subjective, but I like the 60's Le Mans inspired red white and blue of the RE.

Maybe need a thinner shim stack in front, but for tight single track the spring rate feels ok. HUGE difference between the Sachs 50 and the Showa 50. I do not miss the excessive free bleed of the Showa.

My forks are aligned and I remove the lower guards, clean the sliders and re-apply silicone after every ride. I'll be changing the fork fluid every 20 hours.

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1 hour ago, GP said:

Only go to Steve for anodizing.  You WILL find cheaper options, and there IS a reason.  To properly strip and reanodize the inner surfaces of the tube requires a special fixture with an electrode running the length of the tube.  This tooling and setup is not free.  You may get quotes elsewhere a lot cheaper, but the tube is just tossed in a tank and there is almost no current density near the center areas of the inner tube.  It would be like trying spray paint the center with an even coat from the ends, not going to happen.

That more or less, sounds like oem procedure... ?

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46 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

I know I am!

Super satisfied with the mill, the chassis, the electrical, everything! Looks are subjective, but I like the 60's Le Mans inspired red white and blue of the RE.

Maybe need a thinner shim stack in front, but for tight single track the spring rate feels ok. HUGE difference between the Sachs 50 and the Showa 50. I do not miss the excessive free bleed of the Showa.

My forks are aligned and I remove the lower guards, clean the sliders and re-apply silicone after every ride. I'll be changing the fork fluid every 20 hours.

Its all good till its not, so just watch for when its not !   Firfightr has had good luck with his OCs and that's great but the problem is real, unfortunate as it may be.  Dealers who also service suspension see it.  Its also quite possible some guys don't really know what black fork oil means, maybe think its normal.  Keep the shock fresh too while your at it.

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2 minutes ago, GP said:

Its all good till its not, so just watch for when its not !   Firfightr has had good luck with his OCs and that's great but the problem is real, unfortunate as it may be.  Dealers who also service suspension see it.  Its also quite possible some guys don't really know what black fork oil means, maybe think its normal.  Keep the shock fresh too while your at it.

It's real, and definitely not denying it. 

It's frequent enough that the 2 resident Sachs experts see it regularly (Les and Steve) and deal with it often which indicates there's a certain % having this happen. What % is impossible to determine. 

My brother never had it with his '15 250rr and the other '18 300rr in our ridng group has 85 hrs in 6 months and just did first service with clean fluids. 

It's hard to judge how frequently or rampant this really is, as all we see is what's posted or local to us, but these bikes are all over the world and lots of satisfied customers not reporting this. I look at Barry and his group in Australia and it seems they're not talking about it and the large contingency in Canada that ride Beta with the Traction E rag boys aren't bringing it up. So, who really knows for sure if it's hit or miss, frequent or nominal. 

I do believe that proper set-up, thorough cleaning/inspection, regular service makes a difference as well and we all know this gets missed by a lot of riders.

I'll most likely be sending my new set of OC's out to Steve once I've broken them in just to play it safe. No sense in risky unnecessary damage. 

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8 minutes ago, firffighter said:

It's real, and definitely not denying it. 

It's frequent enough that the 2 resident Sachs experts see it regularly (Les and Steve) and deal with it often which indicates there's a certain % having this happen. What % is impossible to determine. 

My brother never had it with his '15 250rr and the other '18 300rr in our ridng group has 85 hrs in 6 months and just did first service with clean fluids. 

It's hard to judge how frequently or rampant this really is, as all we see is what's posted or local to us, but these bikes are all over the world and lots of satisfied customers not reporting this. I look at Barry and his group in Australia and it seems they're not talking about it and the large contingency in Canada that ride Beta with the Traction E rag boys aren't bringing it up. So, who really knows for sure if it's hit or miss, frequent or nominal. 

I do believe that proper set-up, thorough cleaning/inspection, regular service makes a difference as well and we all know this gets missed by a lot of riders.

I'll most likely be sending my new set of OC's out to Steve once I've broken them in just to play it safe. No sense in risky unnecessary damage. 

Regular guys like us keep bikes long enough for these things to show.  Some like me do all the work themselves and probably more often than if you spend more $$ to send it out.  Pros, sponsered fast guys, celeb or other connected riders, and other guys who go through bikes like water are less likely to see these bigger issues.  A statistical thing really.  Get rid of anything fast enough and its perfect, keep it long enough and its junk, an analogy of extremes.  Yeah, good plan if your keeping it awhile.

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28 minutes ago, firffighter said:

I look at Barry and his group in Australia and it seems they're not talking about it and the large contingency in Canada that ride Beta with the Traction E rag boys aren't bringing it up.

I'm one of Barry's video fodder riders. I'm the one that mostly falls over and either gets ridden over for more traction or just adds a bit of gratuitous carnage to the footage. Anyway, I took my suspension up to the good guys at FFRC the other day for servicing and yes my forks are badly worn and need anodizing. Due to budget and time constraints and the brain being barely functional due to the insane sauna-type heat and humidity at the time,  I elected not to get it done immediately, which having read more about the problem, I now regret. Mine is a 2015 300 RR.

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thats right next to the lower bushing.  i wouldnt think the upper bushing gets that close to the lower bushing.  there has to be more overlap than that.  therefore nothing actually comes in contact with the ID of the fork tube at that "wear" location

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20 minutes ago, GP said:

Regular guys like us keep bikes long enough for these things to show.  Some like me do all the work themselves and probably more often than if you spend more $$ to send it out.  Pros, sponsered fast guys, celeb or other connected riders, and other guys who go through bikes like water are less likely to see these bigger issues.  A statistical thing really.  Get rid of anything fast enough and its perfect, keep it long enough and its junk, an analogy of extremes.  Yeah, good plan if your keeping it awhile.

Very true. See this often with some guys enamored by the next cool bike. We have one in our group. Buys a new KTM every year to have the latest version. 

The racers are in a different category and many of those guys don't even service their own bikes. 

I will say the stock suspension has improved nicely over the years as this stock '18 300 is a huge improvement over my brother's '15 when it was stock. 

Edited by firffighter

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2 minutes ago, AvB said:

I'm one of Barry's video fodder riders. I'm the one that mostly falls over and either gets ridden over for more traction or just adds a bit of gratuitous carnage to the footage. Anyway, I took my suspension up to the good guys at FFRC the other day for servicing and yes my forks are badly worn and need anodizing. Due to budget and time constraints and the brain being barely functional due to the insane sauna-type heat and humidity at the time,  I elected not to get it done immediately, which having read more about the problem, I now regret. Mine is a 2015 300 RR.

Thanks for coming in and sharing your experience, much appreciated. Good to hear from someone on the opposite side of the world! 

May I ask if you have had it serviced previous and how many hours on bike? 

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I haven't had the suspension serviced previously and it's up around 100 hrs now (all slow gnarly terrain riding, barely ever out of 3rd gear). I got the bike 2nd hand at around 40hrs and I am sure the previous guy hadn't had any work done either. I know that sounds negligent but I have to say that one of our guys, Ben, rode his '18 300 RR to 200 hrs without doing anything to it, then had a huge rebuild done to top end, all bearings and suspension etc and as far as I know his forks were fine.  

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2 minutes ago, AvB said:

I haven't had the suspension serviced previously and it's up around 100 hrs now (all slow gnarly terrain riding, barely ever out of 3rd gear). I got the bike 2nd hand at around 40hrs and I am sure the previous guy hadn't had any work done either. I know that sounds negligent but I have to say that one of our guys, Ben, rode his '18 300 RR to 200 hrs without doing anything to it, then had a huge rebuild done to top end, all bearings and suspension etc and as far as I know his forks were fine.  

Appreciate you sharing! 

You guys sure have some very cool places to ride! 

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