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Titanium bolts vs oem factory bolts.....how much of a difference?

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While I was watching the race last night I saw a mechanic assembling a bike on the team Kawasaki segment. What I became curious about is let’s say take every single bolt/nut/washer on a showroom bike in one pile and take a bike FULLY equipped with titanium bolts/nuts/washer and put them in another pile. Does anyone know the weight difference would be between these 2 “piles” of bolts if we had them side my side?

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I don't know how much but its enough to make a difference,  titanium is 45% lighter than steel.  you ever buy one of those bolt kits for a bike?  they weigh a fair amount.  

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My welding instructor showed me two identical shafts, one made of steel, the other Titanium. When he dropped the steel shaft in your hand, the weight caused your hand to drop a few inches. Next, when he dropped the Titanium shaft, your hand went UP as you caught it!!! Because your brain anticipated it having the same weight as the steel shaft just prior.

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The big gain has to be in the suspension department, using Ti axles and linkage bolts. These parts move, and the axles are far away from the CG and spinning.  Using Ti fasteners on the rest of the bike, seems like an expensive way to save 2 lbs of not-that-critical weight. Tho, if you got the dough, why not?

Wait, axles don't spin. I meant that they travel with the wheel.

Edited by tpo
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Plus, titanium bots and fasteners are only one part of the weight loss equation for the pro bikes.  They have a lot of other parts that are lighter, and I'd imagine in a lot of cases they need to add weight back to meet the requirements.  The benefit is that they can put it where they want it (low), and not where the factory does.

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12 minutes ago, jcm3 said:

Plus, titanium bots and fasteners are only one part of the weight loss equation for the pro bikes.  They have a lot of other parts that are lighter, and I'd imagine in a lot of cases they need to add weight back to meet the requirements.  The benefit is that they can put it where they want it (low), and not where the factory does.

Im always looking for weight added by the teams when I see factory bikes but they must be hard to spot, tucked up inside frame rails and downtubes. Factory KTM must have to add 7lbs, after Ti and mag everything and rims and exhaust and seat their bikes can't be but 213-ish? Anyone know?

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1 hour ago, woods-rider said:

Not enough to make a difference to 99.99% of us other than the placebo effect.

No, 100%. Period.

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20 hours ago, tpo said:

Im always looking for weight added by the teams when I see factory bikes but they must be hard to spot, tucked up inside frame rails and downtubes. Factory KTM must have to add 7lbs, after Ti and mag everything and rims and exhaust and seat their bikes can't be but 213-ish? Anyone know?

AMA min weight on a 450 is 220 lbs.  

Seems like they had to add some weight to Dungey's bike one year.  I think they did it with some sort of lead tape underneath the frame.

Edited by redrider144
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59 minutes ago, tpo said:

Im always looking for weight added by the teams when I see factory bikes but they must be hard to spot, tucked up inside frame rails and downtubes. Factory KTM must have to add 7lbs, after Ti and mag everything and rims and exhaust and seat their bikes can't be but 213-ish? Anyone know?

Funny article on that, although I don't know how much of it is true.  https://www.dirtrider.com/breaking-rules-in-racing 

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Jcm, that's an interesting read. So, is it true that teams are not allowed to add ballast weight? That is a big deal.

And the naughty fuel in the float bowl story is opposite of when tech samples fuel from the float bowls instead of tank. If you saw a bike being pushed to tech at a drag race in the old days, he may have had legal fuel in the bowls, so when inspector drained some to test, he passed. Then by the time he stages he has fast gas going through engine. Some guys would show opponents they were legal by firing bike up on way to tech.

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2-5lb difference if you replaced them all. Most would notice, and most would hate the result as it will significantly increase the chassis rigidity. 

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3 hours ago, MANIAC998 said:

My welding instructor showed me two identical shafts

Wait..what?  

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1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

AMA min weight on a 450 is 220 lbs.  

Seems like they had to add some weight to Dungey's bike one year.  I think they did it with some sort of lead tape underneath the frame.

Makes sense.  Add the weight as low as possible.   Would have been genius to design the tape to fall off mid moto. 

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2-5lb difference if you replaced them all. Most would notice, and most would hate the result as it will significantly increase the chassis rigidity. 


Most would not notice a 2-5 lb reduction in weight on a 250 lb machine. Many like to think they would notice, but they would not.

I have said this before, but I think it would be interesting if a magazine did a blind test where they would add and remove weight from a bike and the rider had to guess how much was added or removed. Do it with multiple testers (sensitive guys) and some average joe racers.

I am not a slow rider (A class) but I would guess that my ability to sense weight on a bike is right around the 20lb mark. I may be less sensitive than some, but people who say they can tell a 1% change in bike weight are full of themselves.
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Years ago we used a term of unsprung weight.  Haven't heard that used in years but to me that is where you really want the weight reduction(s).

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7 minutes ago, woods-rider said:

 


Most would not notice a 2-5 lb reduction in weight on a 250 lb machine. Many like to think they would notice, but they would not.

I have said this before, but I think it would be interesting if a magazine did a blind test where they would add and remove weight from a bike and the rider had to guess how much was added or removed. Do it with multiple testers (sensitive guys) and some average joe racers.

I am not a slow rider (A class) but I would guess that my ability to sense weight on a bike is right around the 20lb mark. I may be less sensitive than some, but people who say they can tell a 1% change in bike weight are full of themselves.

 

Take your full wraps, and skidplate off and go ride around for the day, you'll notice. Take your hydration system off and go do a moto, you'll notice. 

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11 minutes ago, Wally63 said:

Makes sense.  Add the weight as low as possible.   Would have been genius to design the tape to fall off mid moto. 

I'm not sure about the lead tape.... it might have been speculation.

Sounds like that wouldn't be within the rules.

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