Why would anyone buy a KTM over a YZ250X?

[gitenby]

3 hours ago, checkburner said:

I just got a quote from my local KTM dealer 2019 KTM 300xcw TPI $10849.92 tax included. Then add 500 for hand guards, skid plate, radiator guards etc... Local Yamaha dealer  $7200 otd for a 2019 Yz250x plus 500 for guards etc... my last bike was a 2014 ktm250 xcw. I found the bike fun to ride good suspension, electric start was nice but failed quickly. The engine was very un-exciting. Rode a 2017 250x and what a hoot. The engine was way more fun to me than my Ktm. Sorry guys but I am not paying 11k + for a dirt bike no matter what the features. They are pricing the average person right out of the sport.

I'll never pay 11K either, I wait a year and a half and wait for a $6800 deal

[TheSlayer]

 

 

Leftovers mean a "new" bike can be had for at least $1k less than the latest model.

TX/XC are closest. Carb, no lights. They still have a lighting coil and the wiring/connectors for adding lights. And the other amenities...

Respectfully, closest to a yz250 would be the plain 250SX or TC250. The TC often gets heavily discounted.

 

Someone mentioned $10.8K for a new TPI bike. They can ne had much less. Also, various carb'd models are commonly less than $9k oTD. Depending on what a Yammie dealer says, the yz/ktm difference could be only $1k.

 

[Hans Schmid]

Just now, Wapas said:

Rotella is not of lesser quality. That is not the point. It simply does not have the same viscosity modifiers as "T" moto oil does. But if you change every ride, yup, it hardly matters.

I go about 5-8hrs per change (though I have pushed 20+ on my 500exc). I practice 2-3x a week, change oil for race day, and then change again after a race. I also do filters too. I know a few guys who just change oil, and filters every second oil change but it seems simple to do it anyway. 

[RichieGoatGruff]

1 minute ago, TheSlayer said:

 

Respectfully, closest to a yz250 would be the plain 250SX or TC250. The TC often gets heavily discounted.

Someone mentioned $10.8K for a new TPI bike. They can ne had much less. Also, various carb'd models are commonly less than $9k oTD. Depending on what a Yammie dealer says, the yz/ktm difference could be only $1k.

We're talking about a YZ250 X

[Wrfrk]

I've owned a bunch of KTM 300s over the years but in 2017 I bought a new 250x and while it was a fantastic bike I was constantly longing for the e-start and hydro clutch. Also, I've always run 300s and I did miss that extra grunt those bikes have albeit the 250X was no slouch and prior to the 2017 KTMs the suspension was vastly better.

Now though there really is nothing out there that truly matches the package you get when you buy a KTM/Husky they are really just so much better. I've also owned a 300 Beta and really never gelled with that bike. Right now I'm on a '18 TX300 and it's easily the best bike I've owned to date and can't imagine getting anything that is really better for what I do which is everything (dez trails, mountain trails, dunes, MX) and wherever else I can ride. The TX was only $1,000 more OTD but it's so much better its easily worth it. Re-sale will also be a lot better...... 

[RichieGoatGruff]

The YZX is a very good base to build a woods, or desert, or whatever your choice may be.

 Arizona, making it so easy to plate,  I would need to add lights, brake switch, lighting coils and battery. Reg/rectifier, of course. Some sort of speedo, preferably with internal light. And a professional quality harness for it all. Even doing it myself, it would end up costing about what I paid for my Husky...

Eta, if I got a deal on the YZX.  

 Time spent not riding, doing the work....

Edited March 11, 2019 by RichBaker

[rpt50]

1 hour ago, RichBaker said:

TX/XC are closest. Carb, no lights. They still have a lighting coil and the wiring/connectors for adding lights. And the other amenities...

My TE cost me $100 more than I was quoted by semi local Yamaha dealers for the same year YZX. 

     OTD

Wow. It's amazing that prices were that close given how different the bikes are.

[RichieGoatGruff]

Just now, rpt50 said:

Wow. It's amazing that prices were that close given how different the bikes are.

Husky dealer was willing to haggle...

[flyfisher117]

1 hour ago, shrubitup said:

Nobody selling off their 17/18 KTM/HSQ smokers here. Either they're keeping them or trading them in on the TPI. None used here. Maybe dealers have a glut of them they'll sell?

I live in an area where people have to have the latest and greatest so they are popping up around me now that we are warming up and everyone is getting outdoors.

 

One guy had a bone stock '18 300 XCW with 20 hours.  He wanted $7600.  That one sold in 3 hours of posting.  

 

The tricked out rides I just drug my feet too long and missed them.

 

 

[shrubitup]

1 minute ago, flyfisher117 said:

I live in an area where people have to have the latest and greatest so they are popping up around me now that we are warming up and everyone is getting outdoors.

 

One guy had a bone stock '18 300 XCW with 20 hours.  He wanted $7600.  That one sold in 3 hours of posting.  

 

The tricked out rides I just drug my feet too long and missed them.

 

 

Take two weeks off work, go to the bank, withdraw about $8,000, FOCUS on FB marketplace and craigslist. ? Sometimes the only way to get these deals.

[Wapas]

Moto oil with the T designation is made to be compatible with a gearbox. Engine oil is not. T designated moto oil is both, engine and gear compatible,  and the price reflects the cost to make "and market" it. Also, "regular gear oil" is not ok for an engine, but is ok for a gearbox only.  

I hope that makes it clear what I am getting at. The way oils are put together has a lot to do with where they are going to be used. Regular engine oil is not ideal for a gearbox of any kind, Some motorcycles have the gearbox and crankcase sharing the oil. This is for "T" moto oils. T moto oils are made different than regular engine oil, and use very short polymers for the viscosity modifiers. 2 strokes have a gearbox. any gear oil or T moto oil is ok, provided you have the minimum spec and viscosity. Some bikes have separate gear box and transmission, like some betas do. You could run T moto in the trans, and regular engine oil in the engine. The oil that is compatible with a gearbox must have been designed for a gear box. the viscosity stabilizers in engine oil do not work well in a gear box. Literally, the gears cut up the polymers. And like it was pointed out earlier, if you want to change your oil every 2 or 3 hours of use, then it is less of an issue. I like to use what is right for the application. I never ever skimp on lubrication or parts. It never benefits in the long run.

[sbest]

I never liked a KTM until I rode one...

MX? It don't matter. Trails or enduro? No question. 

[Sierra_rider]

I'm not really a Ktm fanboy, but went from a yz to a Beta 300. Was it expensive? Sure, but the extras along with the overall riding experience made it a regret-free experience. I never really gelled with the yz handling and really prefer the 6 speed gearbox. Like others have said, the euro bikes may not make sense on paper, but it usually changes once you ride one that is properly set-up.

[DaveWilson]

Thanks for all the responses! I still haven't ruled out either brand (or maybe even a Beta), but there have definitely been some interesting points brought up. I have sent out a bunch of emails to the Yamaha and KTM dealers within 2 hrs of me that have last years bikes in stock to see what they can do for an out-the-door price. Right now there isn't a lot of used bikes for sale as there is still snow on the ground here but I'm hoping in the next month or so some used '17 and '18's might start popping up.

Thanks again for the feedback

[OKDinosaur]

Check out the new GasGas bikes, estart 300 with KYB suspension.

As a YZ rider the GasGas 300 is the only other bike that tempts me. KTMs are nice and all but the WP suspension and Mikuni carb put me off, GasGas doesn’t have those issues. KYB and Keihin, the way God told Moses it should be. 

[CDNSXV]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:29 PM, Doc_d said:

If you compare the YZ250FX and the YZ450FX to the Euros you are right.   Yamaha went all-in and they are right on par with the Euros.  If I was in the market for a new 4 stroke woods bike, I'd for sure be looking at the YZ250FX.

I thought I wanted a Beta, then I thought the KTM was it and after that the Husky.  I ended up with a lightly used YZ250FX that is loaded to the tits with accessories for fully half what a new 350 euro bike was going to cost.

[rholbrook]

@DaveWilson  Let me start by saying I bleed BLUE, I am older so I used to bleed Yamaha Yellow until the point that they are now blue so I bleed BLUE.  My last Yamaha was a WR450, but I have such bad shoulders that if I ride a 4 stroke, my shoulders would hurt for 3-4 days after a long 80-100 mile ride.  I had to get something lighter so I began looking at 2 strokes.  Back in 2011 the bike I wanted in Blue was the YZ250(250X not offered yet) but they didn't make the bike I really wanted so I began to create a parts list for everything I needed to build the perfect bike for me which is essentially a KTM 300.  My parts list included wide ratio gearing, Rekluse, 300cc, 18" rear wheel, headlight capable, kickstand and several other things that even if it was KTM, would still need to be added.  At the end of the day, even with all those goodies added to a YZ250, it still didnt have the magic button to fire it up.  Yes, I know that a YZ250 will fire if not first kick, it will on the second kick.  

The whole decision to go Orange really bothered me because I bled BLUE.  It bothered me so much that I called Yamaha directly to speak to a marketing manager and told him of my situation and he flat told me that Yamaha had nothing in the works to keep me from going with a KTM.  Not even a glimmer of hope was given to me.  He said Yamaha was very excited with their current line up.  So, I went ahead and got me a KTM300XC.  XC over XCW because I didnt want such a low first gear.  Well, fast forward 8 years and now I even have a second KTM in the garage so I own two of them Orange things.  Would I ever go back to BLUE?  In a heartbeat but not until they offer an electric start 2 stroke that can compete with the KTMs.  There was a day when Yamaha's suspension ruled but even now its hard to beat a KTM.  I look forward to the day that I can ride a Yamaha again but I really don't see it coming anytime soon.  I have since called Yamaha a total of 4 times over the last 8 years just to make sure they don't have anything coming so I can get my name on the list to buy it if it ever comes out but so far, no luck so until then, I will continue to ride my Orange bikes.  They really are wonderful.

[mylsmkj]

14 hours ago, Wrfrk said:

I've owned a bunch of KTM 300s over the years but in 2017 I bought a new 250x and while it was a fantastic bike I was constantly longing for the e-start and hydro clutch. Also, I've always run 300s and I did miss that extra grunt those bikes have albeit the 250X was no slouch and prior to the 2017 KTMs the suspension was vastly better.

Now though there really is nothing out there that truly matches the package you get when you buy a KTM/Husky they are really just so much better. I've also owned a 300 Beta and really never gelled with that bike. Right now I'm on a '18 TX300 and it's easily the best bike I've owned to date and can't imagine getting anything that is really better for what I do which is everything (dez trails, mountain trails, dunes, MX) and wherever else I can ride. The TX was only $1,000 more OTD but it's so much better its easily worth it. Re-sale will also be a lot better...... 

This is my exact experience, though I don’t gel with the husky’s as well as the KTM just because the back is a little wider. I bought my ‘17 KTM250xcw for $7600 OTD. 

I love the yz 250x and ride one a few times a year since a buddy has one. I’ve been a Yamaha fan for a while and like the suspension but since ‘17 KTM has finally caught up.

The YZ motor is great IMO! I’m sure I’d be similar in a race with either bike. Unless it was a hard enduro then the KTM wins hands down. No electric start and clutch fade is a problem in YZ250x’s . 

Unless you’re doing lots of gnar you can’t go wrong with a YZ250X or an older YZ woodsified

[shrubitup]

9 hours ago, OKDinosaur said:

heck out the new GasGas bikes, estart 300 with KYB suspension.

Reading TT and gasgasriders, The 18 e start ec300 is a little iffy even after dealer fixes. Maybe the 19 is better. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by shrubitup

[Zuminazx]

250x suspension is bar none the best out there and it's a proven, well-known, and reliable design that's inexpensive and easy to work on.

KTMs are more cutting-edge so you'll always have issues with small part changes year to year.  The suspension is inferior in both an attempt to push boundaries and lose weight but that can be solved.  E start, balance shaft, and TPI are neat additions however they also add 20-30lbs over the simple YZ. 

Yamaha won't invest in any updates or new 2T models since they're still gun shy about them being banned and losing a truckload of both investment R&D money and opportunity cost.  I honestly think the 250x will be phased out in the next few years once it's shown it is truly outclassed/obsolete.  However, I also own superjets and when Yamaha updated the boat in 08 after 12 years of continuous construction it was both welcomed and very unexpected.  I have one of each generation and the newest is sublime.  Perhaps they have something like that in store for us.   In the meantime, I'll gladly pay $6500 for a 250x with dealer incentives before paying $10k for a KTM.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Zuminazx