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450L FI Tuners: what works?


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On 3/17/2019 at 10:40 AM, Rich450L said:

Also- you can remove/cap all the smog stuff with no negative effect (The air injection is what creates popping on deceleration). 

Does anyone have a step by step of capping off the air injection? Do they make a kit, if so can you point the direction?

I have the Yoshi RS-4 full system and tuner but the popping is still occuring. From what I understand the air injection pumps fresh air down the exhaust port and this ignites the fuel being sucked out of the engine on decel causing the backfire/pop/not so much lean but tends to get the blame issue.

Yoshi full system.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/21/2019 at 6:21 PM, CRF450L Ohio said:

More:  Seat Concepts 1" lower & wider seat is more comfortable and gets heels closer to down.  Dirt Tricks +2 teeth rear sprocket fits stock chain, light and strong.  

Did you buy the 450R sprocket they sell? Looking to replace the aluminum one that came with my warp 9 wheels. I use them for commuting on street tires, and the sprocket is already pretty worn after 1900 miles. 

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1 hour ago, findtherightline said:

Did you buy the 450R sprocket they sell? Looking to replace the aluminum one that came with my warp 9 wheels. I use them for commuting on street tires, and the sprocket is already pretty worn after 1900 miles. 

Try one of the dual metal ones with the steel teeth around an alloy hub.  There are quite a variety of them, shapes, colors etc.  As hard wearing as steel but almost as light as alloy.

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I bought the one for the L.  Dirt Tricks all steel sprocket is on my L and performed great on 530EXC.  Appears to have been FEAed, finite element analysis for max strength & least weight, then CNCed to get the most steel off the sprocket for a weight savings over stock.  Steel over aluminum also a fine choice with Supersprox.  Have not tried Moose dual metal sprockets yet.

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On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:55 PM, CRF450L Ohio said:

Yeah, tiring & not fun.  I am going to try the https://soloracer.com/crf450lg2tamer.html throttle tamer with slower roll-on of throttle next.  Great bike but lousy execution for the low RPM fuel map.

Snatchy throttle, throttle chop or coarse tip-in:  by any name Honda blew it and I bought it.  Transition from lowest throttle on to throttle off caused back tire to skid on an off-camber tight decreasing radius road curve with a few wet leaves while front stayed stuck to the line in 2nd gear:  unsafe.  Hate to pay $700 for Vortex but most of my woods, mud and street riding requires a high mix of 0 - 1/3 throttle, including 1/32 throttle that does not exist.  Goes very well in a drag race but this bike has zero tight single track abilities and no trials-like control ability.  Right now I'd take back my KTM 530EXC even requiring a new top end every 2100 miles with oil changes at 250 miles - great bike, not cheap to maintain.

Anyone try aftermarket clutch parts to help clutch to execute a range of controlled slippage to go slow while the engine wants to rev too high for tip-in?  Stock clutch is very on/off which does not help low speed control on wet rocks, in mud or around close trees.

A week or 2 ago, I had a problem with clutch after a young friend rode it, and used the clutch like a 250 2 stroke.It is in the last couple pages of adv 450L old guys site.

Outcome of clutch is , I removed judder spring and seat, and replaced it with one fiber disc  from a 96 or 01 cr 250r , it took a bit to retrain my mind and feel for the clutch again, but at first I thought I might have to use a old style clutch perch, because of the ratio.

But after some miles and after it seated in, it is fine and I like old style clutch feel so much better, some might need judder spring if bike is stock and haven't got a way to richen it up,the new style clutch with judder spring helps not to stall it,as in your in traffic and stopped at redlight, your thinking in your mind, don't stall it, the judder spring eases  engagement if clutch is let out to quick, also the FI has no accelerator pump to combat the lean condition you get starting out. even the BP helped clutch feel.

 

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There's been a lot of useful info about what to do with JD Jetting settings on here and other posts, which can also lead to some confusion. I'm not comfortable enough doing it myself. So, while taking my L to get the 1600 mile valve shim check...I bought a full FMF megabomb / Q4 exhaust and JD Jetting components for them to install while they are at it. Soooo in the effort to clarify and gain some opinions as well please feel free to complete the following...I'm in the midwest...

Aftermarket full exhaust/air box cover off:  G/B? G? (6?), Y/B?, Y?, R?, R/B? 

Thanks everyone...      

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Update:  took 450L with JD Jetting tuner to 13,000'+ mountains in Colorado, part of TAT.  Performed very well in thin air, just not as powerful as at 1000'.  Similar tuner on son's 250L performed well but any bike loses power at extreme altitude, 250L would not pull 2nd gear up highest hill climbs where 450L was still good for 2nd.  Throttle tip-in is better than stock with tuner, is ok, not easily controllable for lowest RPMs like 530 EXC or DRZ400 carburetors.  JD Jetting jet kit for 8000'+ for DRZ400 worked very well, ran fair above 12,500' - likely would not have run at all without the jet changes.

450L clutch grabbiness improved to livable as miles were added.  2nd IMS high capacity tank did not leak like first - perfect quantity for long remote trails and roads, about 90 miles without low fuel light on.  IMS stood behind their product, no charges or hassle - just lost riding time.  Filter Skin made it easy and quick to remove when dirty exposing 95% clean stock air filter.  Cleaning an air filter on an out of state 5 day ride is a pain.

SETTINGS:  I'm running Stock pipe, no snorkel on air box:  set close to JD Jetting suggested settings (see older part of thread above) for Modified Air box AND aftermarket pipe.  Should be rich but no black smoke and plug reading is good, response is very nice.   3.5 on R/B 'accelerator pump'.  

0805191145[1].jpg

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I just installed the JD Jetting Tuner this morning. I'm at 7500'. NO more of that herky jerkiness or abrupt shut off/on throttle! VERY VERY pleased with the JD Tuner. My settings are GREEN-6

                                                                                                    YELLOW-6

                                                                                                           RED-6

                                                                                           GREEN BLUE  -7

                                                                                          YELLOW BLUE-5-6

                                                                                                RED-BLUE-5

Stock exhaust, stock airbox, 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Living and riding here in moab for the past 27 years, always Honda , have an 08 450X just got the 450L 500 miles ago.  WRfanatic and CRF450l Ohio you two seem to have the most info /experience on this 0-1/3 throttle problem , have you figured it out yet ? Why hasn't Honda done something about this its bound to tarnish the name? Would the newer kits ( 1/2 year later) from JD be different and maybe handle this ? Kinda waiting this out before get something that doesn't work! Thanks for this thread lots of good info here !!

Edited by busmanmoab
needed to add something
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The Vortex ECU is the only way to properly fix this issue.  The stock ECU shuts off fuel and spark completely on deceleration and turns it back on when you reach idle speed or when you re-apply the throttle.  When it turns on again it gives a kick which is what you feel as the jerky throttle.  Since the add-on fuel controllers (JD Jetting, Attitude, Power Commander, etc) are connected in-line with the injector, they cannot fix this issue completely.  The way they reduce the kick is by over-fueling at low speed (Green/Blue zone on the JD) so much that power is reduced (and consequently the kick) when the throttle is re-applied after releasing it.  They CANNOT continue delivering fuel when the stock ECU stops sending pulses to the injector.  This can be verified by the flashing 1-8 lights on the JD tuner which means no signal from the ECU.  The over-fueling is strong enough that you can smell it, especially with an aftermarket exhaust.  The stock ECU is also responsible for the aftermarket exhaust popping since it shuts off spark as well and when it turns on again it ignites leftover fuel in the header and exhaust port.

The Vortex keeps sending fuel at all times (like a carburetor does) thus eliminating this on-off behavior which is no doubt to save on emissions (zero emissions on deceleration since the engine is essentially not running).  The vortex also greatly reduces engine braking.  Think of it as if the stock ECU has the kill switch connected to the zero throttle position, it shuts off the engine with no throttle except near idle speeds.

I know this goes against most posts on this thread and even my own posts from when I was running the JD Jetting.  At first the Vortex was not available so most people went with the JD Jetting.  A lot of people that were running the JD Jetting have now upgraded to the Vortex, myself included.  It's more expensive but it's cheaper than buying both like I did.  Do it right the first time around.

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4 hours ago, dp19 said:

The Vortex ECU is the only way to properly fix this issue.  The stock ECU shuts off fuel and spark completely on deceleration and turns it back on when you reach idle speed or when you re-apply the throttle.  When it turns on again it gives a kick which is what you feel as the jerky throttle.  Since the add-on fuel controllers (JD Jetting, Attitude, Power Commander, etc) are connected in-line with the injector, they cannot fix this issue completely.  The way they reduce the kick is by over-fueling at low speed (Green/Blue zone on the JD) so much that power is reduced (and consequently the kick) when the throttle is re-applied after releasing it.  They CANNOT continue delivering fuel when the stock ECU stops sending pulses to the injector.  This can be verified by the flashing 1-8 lights on the JD tuner which means no signal from the ECU.  The over-fueling is strong enough that you can smell it, especially with an aftermarket exhaust.  The stock ECU is also responsible for the aftermarket exhaust popping since it shuts off spark as well and when it turns on again it ignites leftover fuel in the header and exhaust port.

The Vortex keeps sending fuel at all times (like a carburetor does) thus eliminating this on-off behavior which is no doubt to save on emissions (zero emissions on deceleration since the engine is essentially not running).  The vortex also greatly reduces engine braking.  Think of it as if the stock ECU has the kill switch connected to the zero throttle position, it shuts off the engine with no throttle except near idle speeds.

I know this goes against most posts on this thread and even my own posts from when I was running the JD Jetting.  At first the Vortex was not available so most people went with the JD Jetting.  A lot of people that were running the JD Jetting have now upgraded to the Vortex, myself included.  It's more expensive but it's cheaper than buying both like I did.  Do it right the first time around.

It truly is the only way to go with these bikes. I am glad that I went the Vortex route from the beginning. 

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Thank you so much for the tech info . you said the stock ECU shuts the spark off also on dece does the vortec reintroduce it ?  I will certainly go this route , any other motor mods you would suggest , id like to keep the stealthy stock exhaust  , comes in quite handy with all the trail  closers . ( not that i would ever advocate running a closed trail) 1 thanks again for this valuable info and taking the time to post it !!

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5 minutes ago, busmanmoab said:

Thank you so much for the tech info . you said the stock ECU shuts the spark off also on dece does the vortec reintroduce it ?  I will certainly go this route , any other motor mods you would suggest , id like to keep the stealthy stock exhaust  , comes in quite handy with all the trail  closers . ( not that i would ever advocate running a closed trail) 1 thanks again for this valuable info and taking the time to post it !!

Just a suggestion, pick up the FMF Q4, it is pretty quiet for an aftermarket exhaust. It'll give you better power, help to uncork the engine and you will drop 8+ pounds up high where it matters. 

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2 hours ago, Tex68w said:

Just a suggestion, pick up the FMF Q4, it is pretty quiet for an aftermarket exhaust. It'll give you better power, help to uncork the engine and you will drop 8+ pounds up high where it matters. 

The FMF Q4, although louder than stock, has a very reasonable loudness level with the quiet insert.  People won't be throwing rocks at you.  Without the insert it's quite loud and I believe the Yoshi is even louder but I haven't heard that one.  As for mods, if you install an exhaust you should block off the air injection valve to eliminate popping on deceleration.

The exhaust provides a pretty noticeable gain.

Other than that, seat concepts seat and IMS tank are high on the upgrade list.

 

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2 hours ago, busmanmoab said:

Thank you so much for the tech info . you said the stock ECU shuts the spark off also on dece does the vortec reintroduce it ?  I will certainly go this route , any other motor mods you would suggest , id like to keep the stealthy stock exhaust  , comes in quite handy with all the trail  closers . ( not that i would ever advocate running a closed trail) 1 thanks again for this valuable info and taking the time to post it !!

The Vortex is a complete ECU replacement.  It keeps fuel and spark running all the time, which is what you want.  It will make it run like it should have from the factory.

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26 minutes ago, dp19 said:

The FMF Q4, although louder than stock, has a very reasonable loudness level with the quiet insert.  People won't be throwing rocks at you.  Without the insert it's quite loud and I believe the Yoshi is even louder but I haven't heard that one.  As for mods, if you install an exhaust you should block off the air injection valve to eliminate popping on deceleration.

The exhaust provides a pretty noticeable gain.

Other than that, seat concepts seat and IMS tank are high on the upgrade list.

 

Agreed, done them all. 

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