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Trail tech regulator/rectifier

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I’m using the trail tech regulator/rectifier to covert the ac voltage coming from my stator to 12v dc to charge an onboard battery. The

reg/rec requires two lighting leads coming from the stator, hence my problem being that I only have one.

 

How does one split one lighting lead into two?

 

I heard from a friend that you must splice the single lead into two and ground one of them. Is this true?

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Your stator must ground the other lead internally.

Then you'd ground one of the leads for the Reg/Rect and connect the other to the stator. You must ensure the reg/rect is not also grounded and anything connected to the reg/rect is not grounded to the frame/bike. You must keep it isolated. Double check with Trail Tech

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When I installed this reg/rec on my xr I had to pull the second wire from the stator out so I had both ends to connect to the reg/rec.  I had to unsolder the grounded lead at the stator windings and then connect an insulated wire to the lead which then goes outside of the stator housing with the other wires.  It was a bit of work, but the system has worked very well.  I really like the timed output of the reg/rec.  Never have to worry about killing my lithium batterey.

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Depends on whether your connecting the lighting and charging coil, like chadzu.  Or just converting the ac lighting output to DC, and leaving the charging alone.

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21 minutes ago, chadzu said:

When I installed this reg/rec on my xr I had to pull the second wire from the stator out so I had both ends to connect to the reg/rec.  I had to unsolder the grounded lead at the stator windings and then connect an insulated wire to the lead which then goes outside of the stator housing with the other wires.  It was a bit of work, but the system has worked very well.  I really like the timed output of the reg/rec.  Never have to worry about killing my lithium batterey.

This is the best and most correct way.

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Your stator must ground the other lead internally.
Then you'd ground one of the leads for the Reg/Rect and connect the other to the stator. You must ensure the reg/rect is not also grounded and anything connected to the reg/rect is not grounded to the frame/bike. You must keep it isolated. Double check with Trail Tech

How do I internally ground the stator?

I know the reg/rec must be isolated but I still don’t understand how I get two leads from one. The reg/rec requires two as you can see...

Here’s a PDF from trail tech

IMG_0207.JPG

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Depends on whether your connecting the lighting and charging coil, like chadzu.  Or just converting the ac lighting output to DC, and leaving the charging alone.

I am converting the ac output to dc so I can charge a battery with the power. The battery will then connect to the lights.

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When I installed this reg/rec on my xr I had to pull the second wire from the stator out so I had both ends to connect to the reg/rec.  I had to unsolder the grounded lead at the stator windings and then connect an insulated wire to the lead which then goes outside of the stator housing with the other wires.  It was a bit of work, but the system has worked very well.  I really like the timed output of the reg/rec.  Never have to worry about killing my lithium batterey.

So all you did was find the other end of the wire in the coil of the stator and pulled it out of the stator housing following the other leads path?

So no grounding what so ever?

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I am, afraid you are a bit over your head.

All circuits have two wires. Right now, your stator has one of the wires grounded in side the engine at the stator. The 'right' way toi do your modification is to locate that connection. Solder a new yellow wire (to keep logical color coding) to it and full insulate it. Confirm after it is done with a meter that there are no shorts to ground. This is the best method.

Keep in mind however, your stator also supplies power to your CDI and that circuitry must remain undisturbed. You need to study the wiring diagram for YOUR bike to confirm what to do. Or speak to Trail Tech about what they suggest. It varies from bike to bike.

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get the one wire you have... put a multimeter on it. test continuity between that and the frame. if theres about 10R or less, its internally grounded. "one wire" is the frame itself. very unusual though. cant say i have ever seen a single wire charging system. at that point the reggy would only need two wires. one in, one out, frame/attachment would be earth. never seen it done that way. except on bicycles!

 

far more likely that it has the normally expected two wires, but only one is actually poking out from under the flywheel. may require digging! because you generally expect to see three wires...two power, one earth, which is also the frame. or in three phase...three wires. all actives. no neutral or ground. when the requisite number isnt there... theyve usually been snipped off.

worst comes to worst you will have to get someone post a pic of their stator so you can solder on a new wire.

 

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If the other end of the windings doesn't come out , then it is already grounded , unless the bike never ran from the factory.  An incomplete circuit on a coil renders that coil useless.  Looking at the TT wiring diagram , you would use a single yellow  wire from the R/R , the other yellow would be unused. The single yellow wire from the R/R is going to tap into the single wire from the stator , which must also still continue to the ignition system.

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There is definitely only one yellow wire on the 150 XC.  The other end of this lighting coil would be grounded in the stator (ie frame, chassis).

I don't believe there is a need to float the ground as long as the DC side is not connected to the frame (DC side floated).  My understanding is that either the AC side or the DC side needs to be independent of the frame.  The TT reg/rec instructions says that the stator must be floated.  So I'm not sure if that device can be used.  

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That TT R/R is a cheap piece of shit anyway , there's a reason the good ones have cooling fins.

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If a stator has an output voltage that changes rapidly between approximately 11.4 to 12.7 ac, turned to dc would it be fine charging a 12 v battery.

 

Could it be potentially dangerous for the stator?

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You cannot get stator output without a proper load and battery. If a stator is rated by the manufacturer to produce between 11.4 and 12.7 over the full range of RPM's, it is not enough when converted to DC to charge a battery. Typically you lose about 1/3 of the voltage when converting with a rudimentary stator. Next, to charge a '12V' battery, you need at least 13.2 to 15 DC volts to charge. Next is the available amperage of the stator. It has to run the CDI and extra power diverted to the battery. Stator output is typically rated in watts (Watts=Volts X Amps) So you need the draw of the stator, the output wattage of the stator to determine if there is available power to charge a battery. To charge the battery, you must have wattage greater than  the total draw, typically you want a margin of 20%

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You cannot get stator output without a proper load and battery. If a stator is rated by the manufacturer to produce between 11.4 and 12.7 over the full range of RPM's, it is not enough when converted to DC to charge a battery. Typically you lose about 1/3 of the voltage when converting with a rudimentary stator. Next, to charge a '12V' battery, you need at least 13.2 to 15 DC volts to charge. Next is the available amperage of the stator. It has to run the CDI and extra power diverted to the battery. Stator output is typically rated in watts (Watts=Volts X Amps) So you need the draw of the stator, the output wattage of the stator to determine if there is available power to charge a battery. To charge the battery, you must have wattage greater than  the total draw, typically you want a margin of 20%

The stator is putting out 12v ac at idle with a max of 40v ac at rev. I find your statement hard to believe as this video of my exact same bike shows otherwise. Can you explain to me how he did this?



He also includes a wiring diagram in the description.

Thanks guys I really appreciate the amazing help!

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Here’s one way to route the wiring for the 150 xc to charge any 12v battery. This design incorporates the start of the TT ac regulator wiring diagram and a basic charging and lighting wiring diagram after the bridge rectifier.

IMG_0217.JPG

IMG_0225.JPG

Both the lines after the TT ac regulator are input into the ac pegs of the bridge rectifier. The bridge rectifier changes the ac charges into positive and negative dc charges

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Trail Tech just claims the battery won't charge if you don't "float" the ground as the guy with the XR did with their system.

Baja Designs on the other hand says you can wire theirs either way with a battery.

MANY system have used the frame / engine as the "ground wire" ( EARTH or NEGATIVE GROUND ) and some still do. The TT R/R will run lights either way you wire it but will drain the battery which can also happen if the lighting coil can't keep up with the lights current draw. I/E a 45 watt coil and 60 watt lights.

the Yamaha WR's have both AC and DC systems. AC runs the lights and the DC keeps the battery.

The TT 150XC set up is a AC lighting kit. it's not being rectified. Most AC systems are negative ground and only have one wire coming from the stator to feed the lights. The light WILL get dim when the RPM drop.

The guy in the vid rectified his to DC, but we don't know if the battery held up on the long trail rides.

If you want LED lights you're going to have to have some DC.

The REG only shunts off excessive current over 12V. At low RPM most systems will drop down around 9VAC, but can upwards of 20VAC at full revs. Just depends on the lighting coil size.

To do what the OP wants to do with a Trail Tech R/R it would be very advisable to have the ground floated on the stator. With that the frame ground is removed and that wire is brought out as a second yellow wire to the R/R. That way you are sure to have the stator charging the battery. Everything you wire up will have to have a ground wire that goes back to the battery. ( FLOATED GROUND )

Floating the ground on KTM four strokes is a very common practice when adding lights is desired and Baja Designs offers that service where as TT does not.

BD suggests that you float the float the ground on the DC side if the AC is neg. grounded and neg. ground the DC side if the AC side is floated.

To float, or not to float. That is the question, I guess.

 

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